6 point proof for the post trib rapture.

[watchman F]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

 

[KumiOri]

I agree.

Tribulation = persecution of the saints on account of their faith in Christ by the wicked. Wrath of God = punishment of the wicked.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

I think most everyone here agrees with that. Tribulation is the reason for his return, and there no word rapture in scripture.

 

[watchman F]

Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

I think most everyone here agrees with that. Tribulation is the reason for his return, and there no word rapture in scripture.

Awesome, if most the people here agree with the post trib stance then I have most certainly found the right site

 

[Vic C.]

[quote="watchman F":2chrbu4m]
Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

I think most everyone here agrees with that. Tribulation is the reason for his return, and there no word rapture in scripture.

Awesome, if most the people here agree with the post trib stance then I have most certainly found the right site [/quote:2chrbu4m]
You are most certainly welcome here. :yes

I will say that not all or even most here believe this ^ though. Many here are pre-millennial, pre-trib; some are preterist/partial preterist; some are pre-wrath, well you get the picture. Me, I'm a mutt, LOL. I'm not a 100% futurist. I'm sort of part prewrath, part partial preterist and part historicist. I not hooked into a future seven year period.

I agree.

Tribulation = persecution of the saints on account of their faith in Christ by the wicked. Wrath of God = punishment of the wicked.

Agreed. They are two separate events. I guess I could label myself port-trib/pre-wrath. :D

 

[ronniechoate34]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

Sorry about the edit if any cares. I need to take a look at something.

 

[watchman F]

I will say that not all or even most here believe this ^ though. Many here are pre-millennial, pre-trib; some are preterist/partial preterist; some are pre-wrath, well you get the picture. Me, I'm a mutt, LOL. I'm not a 100% futurist. I'm sort of part prewrath, part partial preterist and part historicist. I not hooked into a future seven year period.

Cool, I too am not sold on the 7 year tribulation period. I believe it is 1260 days as we are told in Revelation

I guess I could label myself post-trib/pre-wrath. :D

I too am a post trib/ pre wrath

 

[JudaicChristian]

[quote="Vic C.":2zddehpl]I will say that not all or even most here believe this ^ though. Many here are pre-millennial, pre-trib; some are preterist/partial preterist; some are pre-wrath, well you get the picture. Me, I'm a mutt, LOL. I'm not a 100% futurist. I'm sort of part prewrath, part partial preterist and part historicist. I not hooked into a future seven year period.

Cool, I too am not sold on the 7 year tribulation period. I believe it is 1260 days as we are told in Revelation

I guess I could label myself port-trib/pre-wrath. :D

I too am a post trib/ pre wrath[/quote:2zddehpl]
There are about three different 1260 day prophecies given with a possibility of different interpretations. 1260 years. 1260+777=2037. 1260=3.5 years.

 

[watchman F]

[quote="Vic C.":2xle0he2]I will say that not all or even most here believe this ^ though. Many here are pre-millennial, pre-trib; some are preterist/partial preterist; some are pre-wrath, well you get the picture. Me, I'm a mutt, LOL. I'm not a 100% futurist. I'm sort of part prewrath, part partial preterist and part historicist. I not hooked into a future seven year period.

Cool, I too am not sold on the 7 year tribulation period. I believe it is 1260 days as we are told in Revelation

I guess I could label myself port-trib/pre-wrath. :D

I too am a post trib/ pre wrath

There are about three different 1260 day prophecies given with a possibility of different interpretations. 1260 years. 1260+777=2037. 1260=3.5 years. [/quote:2xle0he2]I would have to go with the 2nd one. Why would you add 777 to 1260 any way?

 

[JudaicChristian]

I would have to go with the 2nd one. Why would you add 777 to 1260 any way?

The question was: What may these numbers have to do with the last days in relationship to our time? The wording "time, times, and the division of time is applied in more than one way, depending on the sentence. It literally means three and a half. In a search for a relationship of those numbers, the number 5 is the lowest common denominator of those numbers. What is being done is a search for a number, that would make those numbers apply to actual prophecy of our days. We know that there is a limit to the time prophecies, so they have to apply within the certain bounds. The division of those numbers by 5 produces the product numbers 252, 258, and 267. In adding these product numbers we find that the number 777 is produced. As a result of adding that number 777 to those numbers 1260, 1290, and 1335, we find that it produces numbers that are relevant to our time. I would like to point out that those numbers (1260, 1290, and 1335) have no value, in relationship to our time without solving for an unknown. An example of this is the words "Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." That specifically has to do with the resurrection of the elect in our days to come. Obviously the number 1335 can not apply without other considerations.
Daniel 12:11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Daniel 12:12
Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12:7
The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

Revelation 12:14
The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

 

[XTruth]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

The first resurrection is actually a period consisting of about 2000 years beginning w Christ as the firstfruit of the resurrection. There are 5 raptures.
1st is Christ who was caught up
2nd is before the 7 yr tribulation of all who are righteous, being found in no sin.... this eliminates all "christians" living in sin.
3rd is in the middle of the trib for the 144,000 jews, just before the beginning of the great tribulation aka jacob's (Israel's) trouble
4th is for those martyred and dead saints that were saved after the rapture... they are resurrected and caught up in their glorified bodies in time for the marriage supper of the Lamb and in time to ride back to earth w Jesus to set up the 1000 yr reign.
5th is the two witnesses.

Now, who is it that is suppose to repopulate the earth throughout the millennium if all the righteous are glorified at the end of the trib??? Glorified saints do not marry or repopulate. This is for the righteous found alive at the end of the trib who were not found righteous at the beginning of the trib so were not raptured (1 thes.5:9).

[last day] Used six times: five times of the last day of redemption of the righteous when their bodies will be fully redeemed (Jn. 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24), and of the last day when the wicked will be resurrected and judged (Jn. 12:48; cp. Rev. 20:11-15). ,by your thought of the "last day" you would have to believe the resurrection of the wicked dead (said to be at the end of the millennium) is the same day as the resurrection of the righteous that we both agree will be before the millennium.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (Jn.12:48)."

"5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Rev.20:5)."

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15)."

 

[watchman F]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

The first resurrection is actually a period consisting of about 2000 years beginning w Christ as the firstfruit of the resurrection. There are 5 raptures.
1st is Christ who was caught up
2nd is before the 7 yr tribulation of all who are righteous, being found in no sin.... this eliminates all "christians" living in sin.
3rd is in the middle of the trib for the 144,000 jews, just before the beginning of the great tribulation aka jacob's (Israel's) trouble
4th is for those martyred and dead saints that were saved after the rapture... they are resurrected and caught up in their glorified bodies in time for the marriage supper of the Lamb and in time to ride back to earth w Jesus to set up the 1000 yr reign.
5th is the two witnesses.

Now, who is it that is suppose to repopulate the earth throughout the millennium if all the righteous are glorified at the end of the trib??? Glorified saints do not marry or repopulate. This is for the righteous found alive at the end of the trib who were not found righteous at the beginning of the trib so were not raptured (1 thes.5:9).

[last day] Used six times: five times of the last day of redemption of the righteous when their bodies will be fully redeemed (Jn. 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24), and of the last day when the wicked will be resurrected and judged (Jn. 12:48; cp. Rev. 20:11-15). ,by your thought of the "last day" you would have to believe the resurrection of the wicked dead (said to be at the end of the millennium) is the same day as the resurrection of the righteous that we both agree will be before the millennium.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (Jn.12:48)."

"5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Rev.20:5)."

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15)."

I hate to be blunt, but your post is doctrine that has not basis in scripture.

 

[XTruth]

[quote="watchman F":9oaa66e1]6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

The first resurrection is actually a period consisting of about 2000 years beginning w Christ as the firstfruit of the resurrection. There are 5 raptures.
1st is Christ who was caught up
2nd is before the 7 yr tribulation of all who are righteous, being found in no sin.... this eliminates all "christians" living in sin.
3rd is in the middle of the trib for the 144,000 jews, just before the beginning of the great tribulation aka jacob's (Israel's) trouble
4th is for those martyred and dead saints that were saved after the rapture... they are resurrected and caught up in their glorified bodies in time for the marriage supper of the Lamb and in time to ride back to earth w Jesus to set up the 1000 yr reign.
5th is the two witnesses.

Now, who is it that is suppose to repopulate the earth throughout the millennium if all the righteous are glorified at the end of the trib??? Glorified saints do not marry or repopulate. This is for the righteous found alive at the end of the trib who were not found righteous at the beginning of the trib so were not raptured (1 thes.5:9).

[last day] Used six times: five times of the last day of redemption of the righteous when their bodies will be fully redeemed (Jn. 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24), and of the last day when the wicked will be resurrected and judged (Jn. 12:48; cp. Rev. 20:11-15). ,by your thought of the "last day" you would have to believe the resurrection of the wicked dead (said to be at the end of the millennium) is the same day as the resurrection of the righteous that we both agree will be before the millennium.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (Jn.12:48)."

"5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Rev.20:5)."

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15)."

I hate to be blunt, but your post is doctrine that has not basis in scripture.[/quote:9oaa66e1]
Can you be specific with what I've said that you believe to have no Scripture belonging to it's claim? :eyebrow

 

[Bick]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

MY COMMENTS: I don't understand why so many Bible students want to have the Church/Body of Christ down on the earth in the coming Messianic Kingdom Age.

The Church/Body is a special ecclesia chosen by God in Christ, before the foundation of the world:

"Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, according as he did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love..." Eph. 1:3, 4, YLT, etc.

"...who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His won purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,." 2 Tim.1:9.

"..upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of the ages,.."
Titus 1:2.

Concerning the church/body: "..the secret which has been concealed from the eons and from the generations, yet now was made manifest to His saints..." Col. 1:21, CV.

Our future is witnessing to spirit beings in the heavenly places, while Israel will be God's witness to the nations especially during the Millennium. Read Ephesians chapts 1 though 3, especially."

Other major differences between the 'rapture' and the second coming of Christ in power and great glory:

The rapture is a secret thing, occuring in a "twinkling of an eye." The church/body meets Christ in the air, with new spiritual bodies fit for the heavenlies where we will be taken.

At Christ's second coming, there will be signs in the heavens; he will be seen coming on the clouds on a white horse, with his army of angels. Every eye will see him. He comes in war to defeat his enemies and rescue his people, the faithful of Israel, etc.

I didn't take time to comment on every verse you quoted, especially those outside the letters of Paul, for, IMO, the church/body of Christ is not connected with any prophecies in those books.

 

[Vic C.]

watchman F wrote:
I would have to go with the 2nd one. Why would you add 777 to 1260 any way?

You wouldn't. I have not seen one scholar or commentator do that.

MDO, you really confused me with all that math stuff. :silly

It's not as complicated as you made it out to be. We have three numbers; 1260, 1290 and 1335. So, it would be, 1260 + 30 + 45=1335. In other words, we have the original 1260 days, then a 30 day period, then another 45 day period.

 

[watchman F]

The first resurrection is actually a period consisting of about 2000 years beginning w Christ as the firstfruit of the resurrection. There are 5 raptures.
1st is Christ who was caught up
2nd is before the 7 yr tribulation of all who are righteous, being found in no sin.... this eliminates all "christians" living in sin.
3rd is in the middle of the trib for the 144,000 jews, just before the beginning of the great tribulation aka jacob's (Israel's) trouble
4th is for those martyred and dead saints that were saved after the rapture... they are resurrected and caught up in their glorified bodies in time for the marriage supper of the Lamb and in time to ride back to earth w Jesus to set up the 1000 yr reign.
5th is the two witnesses.

Now, who is it that is suppose to repopulate the earth throughout the millennium if all the righteous are glorified at the end of the trib??? Glorified saints do not marry or repopulate. This is for the righteous found alive at the end of the trib who were not found righteous at the beginning of the trib so were not raptured (1 thes.5:9).

[last day] Used six times: five times of the last day of redemption of the righteous when their bodies will be fully redeemed (Jn. 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24), and of the last day when the wicked will be resurrected and judged (Jn. 12:48; cp. Rev. 20:11-15). ,by your thought of the "last day" you would have to believe the resurrection of the wicked dead (said to be at the end of the millennium) is the same day as the resurrection of the righteous that we both agree will be before the millennium.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (Jn.12:48)."

"5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Rev.20:5)."

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.20:11-15)."

I hate to be blunt, but your post is doctrine that has not basis in scripture.

Can you be specific with what I've said that you believe to have no Scripture belonging to it's claim? :eyebrow

All of it. Nothing you said is scriptural from the belief that the 1st resurrection is actually referring to 5 raptures, to the 7 year tribulation period, to the pretrib rapture of the church, to the mid trib rapture of the 144,000 ect.......

 

[XTruth]

It's actually quite scriptural watchmanf......

Five Raptures in the First Resurrection

1. Christ and the many saints that were resurrected after His resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20,23; Matthew 27:52-53; Ephes. 4:8-10).

2. "Afterward they that are Christ's at His coming" (1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; John 14:1-3; Luke 21:34-36; 2 Cor. 5:1-8; Ephes. 5:27; Phil. 3:11,20-21; 1 Thes. 2:19; 1 Thes. 3:13; 1 Thes. 4:13-17; 1 Thes. 5:9,23; 2 Thes. 2:1,7, note; Col. 3:4; James 5:7-8; 1 John 2:28; 1 John 3:2; 1 Peter 5:4). Everyone in Christ, dead or alive, will be translated at this time. Not one person will be left on earth who is in Christ (1 Thes. 4:16-17).

3. The 144,000 Jews saved in the first 3 ½ years of Daniel's 70th week (Rev. 7:1-8). They will be caught up as the manchild in the middle of this week or 3 ½ years before the second coming (Rev. 12:5; Rev. 14:1-5; Isaiah 66:7-8; Daniel 12:1). See notes on these scriptures.

4. The great multitude of tribulation saints who are saved after the rapture 2, above and during the whole of Daniel's 70th week (Rev. 6:1-19:21). The first martyrs of this period are told to rest until the rest of them are killed (Rev. 6:9-11) when vengeance will be taken and all raptured in time for the marriage supper (Rev. 7:9-17; Rev. 15:2-4; Rev. 20:4-6). Even those killed by the beast in the last 3 ½ years of this week have part in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6). This proves their rapture in time for the marriage supper (Rev. 19:1-10) and in time to come back with Christ (Rev. 19:11-21; Jude 1:14; Zech. 14:5).

5. The rapture of the two witnesses, ending the first resurrection which began with the resurrection of Christ (Rev. 11:7-11).


The Time and Length of the Tribulation:

The tribulation will begin to affect Israel before the 70th week begins; how long before is not certain, but when Antichrist rises at the beginning of the week, Israel will be undergoing persecution from the 10 kings of Revised Rome dominated by Mystery Babylon. When Antichrist comes he will make a 7-year covenant with Israel assuring them of protection in their continued establishment as a nation (Daniel 9:27). Because the Jews will not submit to Mystery Babylon, there will be a widespread persecution and they shall be "hated of all nations" during the time of the beginning of sorrows when Antichrist will be endeavoring to conquer all these nations (Matthew 24:4-12). Antichrist will need Jewish moral and financial support in his rise over these nations, so he will make an alliance with them for 7 years. Therefore, the time of the tribulation will be during the whole of Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:27). It will end at the second coming (Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).

The Divisions of the Tribulation:

1. The first division takes in the first 3 ½ years of the 70th week and is termed the lesser tribulation. It is not to be as great in severity as the last 3 ½ years because of the protection of Israel by the Antichrist during that time. Israel's persecution then will be from a source entirely different from that of the last division. In these first 3 ½ years she will be persecuted by Mystery Babylon and the 10 kings. This division takes in the fulfillment of Rev. 6:1-9:21. The judgments of the 6th sea and first 6 trumpets come in this period, thus proving tribulation during this time.

2. The last division takes in the last 3 ½ years of the week and is termed the great tribulation because it will be more severe in persecution upon Israel than the first 3 ½ years. Antichrist, who will protect Israel the first 3 ½ years, will break his covenant with her in the middle of the week and become her most bitter enemy. He will then try to destroy her, which act will call for the judgments of the 7 vials of the last 3 ½ years. This part of the tribulation includes the fulfillment of Rev. 10:1-19:21. Jesus, Daniel, Jeremiah, and many others speak of this time of Israel's trouble as being worse than any other time that has ever been on earth or ever will be (Daniel 12:1; Jeremiah 30:4-11; Matthew 24:21,22; Rev. 11:1,2; Rev. 12:14-17; Rev. 13:5-7).

The Purpose of the Tribulation:

1. To purify Israel and bring them back to a place where God can fulfill the everlasting covenants made with their fathers (Isaiah 2:5-22; Isaiah 16:1-5; Isaiah 24:1-25:12; Isaiah 26:20,21; Ezekiel 20:33,34; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Romans 11:25-29).

2. To purify Israel of all rebels (Ezekiel 20:33,4; ; Zech. 13:8,9; Malachi 3:3,4).

3. To plead with and bring Israel into the bond of the new covenant (Ezekiel 20:33,34; Ezekiel 36:24-28; Jeremiah 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10-13:9; Malachi 4:3,4).

4. To judge Israel and punish them for their rejection of the Messiah and make them willing to accept Him when He comes the second time (Ezekiel 20:33,34; Zech. 12:10-13:9; Zech. 14:1-15; Matthew 24:15-31).

5. To judge the nations for their persecution of Israel (Isaiah 63:1-6; Joel 3; Rev. 6:1-19:21).

6. To bring Israel to complete repentance (Zech. 12:10-13:9; Romans 11:26-29; Matthew 23:39).

7. To fulfill the prophecies of Daniel 9:24-27; Rev. 6:1-19:21; Matthew 24:15,29.

8. To cause Israel to flee into the wilderness of Edom and Moab to be so persecuted by the nations that they will have to turn to God for help (Isaiah 16:1-5; Ezekiel 20:33-35; Daniel 11:40-12:7; Hosea 2:14-17; Matthew 24:15-31; Rev. 12).

The Character of the Tribulation:

God's wrath will be poured out upon mankind for their wickedness and corruption which will exceed the days of Noah and Lot (Genesis 6; Matthew 24:37-39; Luke 17:22-37; 2 Tim. 3:1-12). Words cannot describe the utter rebellion and wickedness of men during this period of final struggle between God and the devil over possession of the earth (Rev. 11:15; Rev. 12:7-12; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 20:1-3). People will reject the truth until God turns them ever to the "strong delusion" of the Antichrist who will cause them to believe a lie and be damned (2 Thes. 2:8-12; 2 Peter 3:1-9). Even after God pours out His judgments upon men, they will still defy Him (Rev. 9:20,21; Rev. 6:2-11; Rev. 17:1-18; Rev. 18:1-24).

 

[XTruth]

The word rapture simply means to transport from one place to another. The Scriptural expressions equated with rapture are "caught up" (1 Thess. 4:17; 2 Cor. 12:4); "receive you unto myself" (John. 14:3); and "come up hither" (Rev. 4:1; Rev 11:12). When we use the term, we mean the "catching up" of Christians to meet the Lord in the air, who then go to the planet heaven with Christ to become settled in their eternal mansions that He has gone to prepare for them who serve Him until death-or until the time of the rapture (1 Thess. 2:19;1 Thess 3:13;1 Thess 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 4:1).

When we refer to the rapture we do not mean the second coming of Christ, or any part, stage, or phase of it. The rapture is a distinct and separate coming of the Lord with at least seven years between the two comings out of heaven.

 

[watchman F]

The word rapture simply means to transport from one place to another. The Scriptural expressions equated with rapture are "caught up" (1 Thess. 4:17; 2 Cor. 12:4); "receive you unto myself" (John. 14:3); and "come up hither" (Rev. 4:1; Rev 11:12). When we use the term, we mean the "catching up" of Christians to meet the Lord in the air, who then go to the planet heaven with Christ to become settled in their eternal mansions that He has gone to prepare for them who serve Him until death-or until the time of the rapture (1 Thess. 2:19;1 Thess 3:13;1 Thess 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 4:1).

When we refer to the rapture we do not mean the second coming of Christ, or any part, stage, or phase of it. The rapture is a distinct and separate coming of the Lord with at least seven years between the two comings out of heaven.

Sorry but if you had read the O.P. with open eyes and an open heart would weould have seen the fiirst two point

#1 The rapture is at the coming of Christ.
#2 The coming of Christ is after the Trib.


guess when that puts the rapture?

 

[freeway]

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included) says watchman:

I wasn’t going to post anything here about this topic but the more I read it the more I see that you can be only interpreting the scripture to want you want to see. First off you say “proof†in the topic heading, then you say prove in your first sentence. Proof and prove are two words that leave no interpretation. You cannot be 100% sure that you are reading the scripture correctly or this is the only way they can be interpreted.
I will put my remarks in red for easer references..

Watchman says:
#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
True Jesus will gather His people from all over Heaven and earth. These are people that have accepted Jesus as Savoir during the old testament, the church age and the tribulation period. I see no problem with these passages, but to make it seem as it can only be a post rapture event. Jesus is simply gathering His chosen elect in heaven and earth. More about the trumpet later.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Again saying the same thing as above, Jesus is gathering His people to Himself. The end of the age, The whole earth population is seeing the Second coming, those that have lived through the Great Tribulation.. Christian and sinner alike is seeing this…