7000 Years is Not Enough

[RBDERRICK]

John is not talking about the gentiles treading the earth under foot.

God is talking about the nations, which includes that of the Jews after they had our Lord crucified.

For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

The nation of Jews has been their own among all nations of the earth, since the time they rejected Jesus from being their Lord.

Translating Ethnos as Gentiles is now only appropriate, when the doctrine of Christ was specifically speaking of Jews vs. Gentiles, such as in Romans 2.

Now is the time of the nations of the earth ruling themselves, so that when the fulness of the nations comes to pass, the Lord returns to put an end to the age of nations ruling themselves.

He is talking about Jerusalem.
Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The court without the temple, which is earth, and the holy city specifically.

There is no temple of God on earth that is made with hands, until the Lord returns to build His own to rule from.

Interpreting prophecy of Scripture without the doctrine of Christ and the NT, has a gaping hole in it.

Prophecy of God is no more interpreted without Christ Jesus the Lamb at it's heart.

That was the error of the Jews when they didn't receive Him.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Jerusalem was sacked long ago.

Daniel 11:31
His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Rome already took care of that.

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus' prophecy of the temple at Jerusalem is already fulfilled.

Nothing is said of Jerusalem being sacked in Revelation, but only of the land around Armageddon being the gathering of armies of the earth coming from the east.

I no longer read into Revelation what is not there. Old prophesies are only applied and fulfilled in Revelation, where Jesus says in His Revelation they should be.

In Jesus' Revelation the only prophesies of Jerusalem remaining are of it being that great city spiritually Sodom and Egypt, and encompassed by Gog and Magog after the Lord's Millennial reign on earth.

All old prophesies should be applied in that context of final fulfillment of all prophecies.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

God is talking about the nations, which includes that of the Jews after they had our Lord crucified.

For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

The nation of Jews has been their own among all nations of the earth, since the time they rejected Jesus from being their Lord.

Translating Ethnos as Gentiles is now only appropriate, when the doctrine of Christ was specifically speaking of Jews vs. Gentiles, such as in Romans 2.

Now is the time of the nations of the earth ruling themselves, so that when the fulness of the nations comes to pass, the Lord returns to put an end to the age of nations ruling themselves.



The court without the temple, which is earth, and the holy city specifically.

There is no temple of God on earth that is made with hands, until the Lord returns to build His own to rule from.

Interpreting prophecy of Scripture without the doctrine of Christ and the NT, has a gaping hole in it.

Prophecy of God is no more interpreted without Christ Jesus the Lamb at it's heart.

That was the error of the Jews when they didn't receive Him.


Jerusalem was sacked long ago.


Rome already took care of that.

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus' prophecy of the temple at Jerusalem is already fulfilled.

Nothing is said of Jerusalem being sacked in Revelation, but only of the land around Armageddon being the gathering of armies of the earth coming from the east.

I no longer read into Revelation what is not there. Old prophesies are only applied and fulfilled in Revelation, where Jesus says in His Revelation they should be.

In Jesus' Revelation the only prophesies of Jerusalem remaining are of it being that great city spiritually Sodom and Egypt, and encompassed by Gog and Magog after the Lord's Millennial reign on earth.

All old prophesies should be applied in that context of final fulfillment of all prophecies.

The gentiles will only occupy Jerusalem for 42 months.

Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

That it 3.5 years.
No more than 42 months.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I hope you understand that John is saying the gentiles will be occupying Jerusalem with two witnesses.

John is not talking in Revelation 11, but Jesus Christ is telling Him these things that must shortly come to pass. John speaks for himself only a few times in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Such as when he speaks of himself being on the isle of Patmos, and is talking with the angel and fellow servant.

Jesus Christ is saying the nations with be treading the streets of Jerusalem as they already are today, whether Jew, Arab, Muslim, British, American...

The two witnesses of God with fire proceeding from their mouths, will be toward the end of these last days of men ruling themselves on earth. Satan will also have the horses of his armies breathing fire, smoke, and brimstone.

God's witness will be killing with fire those specifically seeking to do them hurt. Satan's killers, of course, will be far less discriminate.

Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I go by NT doctrine of Christ to translate Scripture, including when interpreting prophecy of Christ. That especially includes the Revelation of Jesus Christ Himself. It makes absolutely no sense to now try and interpret any Scripture and prophecy of Scripture without the doctrine and gospel of Jesus. That includes translating His words.

The Jerusalem of today and nations of the Israelis, is just another city and nation of man on earth. They ensured that when they had their Lord crucified, in order to keep their nation for themselves only.

If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

The Romans ended up coming and taking away their nation and destroying their temple, not because of Jesus, but because of the zealots crucifying Him. He prophesied it and it was done.

Today the Israeli nation, so far as nations of men are concerned, is not such a bad one and better than many. I also hear it's a good tourist nation, when the terrorists around it aren't attacking.

Prophecy says it will get worse though and be spiritually Sodom and Egypt, with the last false apostle rising up to defile most all nations with his converts.

John did not change the subject from the gentiles to the two witnesses.He is speaking of the same group occupying Jerusalem together for 42 months.1260 days.

I agree. Jesus doesn't say they are at different times. The nations are still treading earth, and will still be treading streets in Jerusalem, when the two witnesses of God are given power on earth. It's just not at this time.

When I hear of two Christian witnesses with prophetic power from God to kill with fire from their mouths, any who would do them harm, then I will know it's that time.

It will be the same time of the rise of the last antichrist on earth out of Jerusalem.

 

[RBDERRICK]

When I disagree with someone... do they ask followup questions or do they just get defensive?

I don't get defensive but follow proper rules of debate, and am ready tod efend what I teach. It's what Paul did during all His apostleship, standing ready in defense of the gospel he preached. That's what dispute of Scripture and the gospel is all about. Paul did so daily for several years in Ephesus, and all the area around heard.

Honest disagreement with someone requires reasons and proofs why. It's a challenge of correction, that adults must accept and defend against. If we have no true defence to the challenge, then we must accept the correction.

Only children just say 'nah-ah'.

It may be a natural response to a challenge... and then I respond to their response.

A natural response of saying no, does not invite correction. Being soundly corrected in the doctrine and prophesy of Christ is good. Without a reason given for the disagreement, there is no good that comes of it, other than disagreeing.

The questions I have been asked do not feel honest to me. They feel like entrapment.

And so you're the one that's touchy and defensive. If I am fairly challenged, I defend myself. If I see an entrapment, then I also show why.

The bottom line is, if you make a personal response to someone to disagree, without explaining why, then you're wasting my time. You're disagreement is meaningless to me. And if I challenge you, and you fail to respond at all, then it's clear you only care about what you like to think, and don't care for anything that may correct you.

You show there's no reason to see any of your replies. It's a dead end road. I'm taking this time to explain to you the proper rules of argument, because I would like to see why you would disagree with me. After all, you may be right.

So, in future, if you want to personally address me to disagree, then have the courtesy to explain why. Otherwise, move on.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I don't get defensive but follow proper rules of debate, and am ready tod efend what I teach. It's what Paul did during all His apostleship, standing ready in defense of the gospel he preached. That's what dispute of Scripture and the gospel is all about. Paul did so daily for several years in Ephesus, and all the area around heard.

Honest disagreement with someone requires reasons and proofs why. It's a challenge of correction, that adults must accept and defend against. If we have no true defence to the challenge, then we must accept the correction.

Only children just say 'nah-ah'.

Agreed

A natural response of saying no, does not invite correction. Being soundly corrected in the doctrine and prophesy of Christ is good. Without a reason given for the disagreement, there is no good that comes of it, other than disagreeing.

Yes it does. When a child says no in response to a question... a good teacher starts to unfold the lesson in easy to follow detail.
Teachers should be able to overcome disagreement with information.

And so you're the one that's touchy and defensive. If I am fairly challenged, I defend myself. If I see an entrapment, then I also show why.

Good for you.

The bottom line is, if you make a personal response to someone to disagree, without explaining why, then you're wasting my time. You're disagreement is meaningless to me. And if I challenge you, and you fail to respond at all, then it's clear you only care about what you like to think, and don't care for anything that may correct you.

So have you an answer yet for my 18 points that disagree with Jerusalem being Babylon?
I did respond with 18 points of disagreement. Would you wish to address those points at any time?

You show there's no reason to see any of your replies. It's a dead end road. I'm taking this time to explain to you the proper rules of argument, because I would like to see why you would disagree with me. After all, you may be right.

So you now can dictate how to argue with someone?
I thought we all had our own styles and personalities.

So, in future, if you want to personally address me to disagree, then have the courtesy to explain why. Otherwise, move on.

I have posted 18 points of disagreement with your premise. Have you addressed any of those 18 points?
I have not seen your post addressing any of them.
When could I expect your response to my 18 points of dispute with your ideas?

 

[for_his_glory]

RBDERRICK and Paul Timothy please take your argument to a private PM to reconcile with each other as this thread is no place for this.

No need to reply and if both of you keep it up you will be banned from this thread.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

John is not talking in Revelation 11, but Jesus Christ is telling Him these things that must shortly come to pass. John speaks for himself only a few times in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Such as when he speaks of himself being on the isle of Patmos, and is talking with the angel and fellow servant.

Jesus Christ is saying the nations with be treading the streets of Jerusalem as they already are today, whether Jew, Arab, Muslim, British, American...

The two witnesses of God with fire proceeding from their mouths, will be toward the end of these last days of men ruling themselves on earth. Satan will also have the horses of his armies breathing fire, smoke, and brimstone.

God's witness will be killing with fire those specifically seeking to do them hurt. Satan's killers, of course, will be far less discriminate.


But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I go by NT doctrine of Christ to translate Scripture, including when interpreting prophecy of Christ. That especially includes the Revelation of Jesus Christ Himself. It makes absolutely no sense to now try and interpret any Scripture and prophecy of Scripture without the doctrine and gospel of Jesus. That includes translating His words.

The Jerusalem of today and nations of the Israelis, is just another city and nation of man on earth. They ensured that when they had their Lord crucified, in order to keep their nation for themselves only.

If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

The Romans ended up coming and taking away their nation and destroying their temple, not because of Jesus, but because of the zealots crucifying Him. He prophesied it and it was done.

Today the Israeli nation, so far as nations of men are concerned, is not such a bad one and better than many. I also hear it's a good tourist nation, when the terrorists around it aren't attacking.

Prophecy says it will get worse though and be spiritually Sodom and Egypt, with the last false apostle rising up to defile most all nations with his converts.




I agree. Jesus doesn't say they are at different times. The nations are still treading earth, and will still be treading streets in Jerusalem, when the two witnesses of God are given power on earth. It's just not at this time.

When I hear of two Christian witnesses with prophetic power from God to kill with fire from their mouths, any who would do them harm, then I will know it's that time.

It will be the same time of the rise of the last antichrist on earth out of Jerusalem.

Well,I recon your not going to know the time.
The two Christian witnesses who arrive with the gentiles will be telling the inhabitants of Jerusalem they should get the mark of the Israeli government and trying to convince everyone in Israel it is not the mark of the beast.

I guess you did know the false prophet with two horns will be in Jerusalem for those 1260 days.
The woman will have to flee into the wilderness it will be so bad in Babylon.

Revelation 18:4
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

Her sins she commits during the time of the two witnesses is worshiping the beast and it's image and receiving its mark.

 

[for_his_glory]

The two Christian witnesses who arrive with the gentiles will be telling the inhabitants of Jerusalem they should get the mark of the Israeli government and trying to convince everyone in Israel it is not the mark of the beast.

Where is your proof of this as the two witnesses are of God, not enemies of God.

Revelation 11

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah 4 speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Where is your proof of this as the two witnesses are of God, not enemies of God.

Revelation 11

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah 4 speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.

You claim God sends the two witnesses yet Christ said he is the last God would send.
Are you saying Jesus is wrong?

Where is your proof that Jesus is wrong?

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes it does. When a child says no in response to a question... a good teacher starts to unfold the lesson in easy to follow detail.
Teachers should be able to overcome disagreement with information.

I see your point, but I never think of it, because I'm not trying to teach grade schoolers. With adults, a disagreement demands an explanation. That's because we ought not really care about personal opinions, because we don't wear our feelings on our shoulders. And with the Bible and God's words, we know it's not about us personally, but all about what God says is true or not.

We seek the truth of Scripture, not personal opinions whether agreeing or disagreeing.

So have you an answer yet for my 18 points that disagree with Jerusalem being Babylon?
I did respond with 18 points of disagreement. Would you wish to address those points at any time?

Good. I haven't seen them. Tell me where to find them, or copy them here for me. I'd be more than glad to see what you have.

So you now can dictate how to argue with someone?

I show you how to have an argument worth having. Otherwise, I'll be forced to not look at your 'replies'.

I thought we all had our own styles and personalities.

True. Not explaining why I disagree with someone is not one of my style.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I see your point, but I never think of it, because I'm not trying to teach grade schoolers. With adults, a disagreement demands an explanation. That's because we ought not really care about personal opinions, because we don't wear our feelings on our shoulders. And with the Bible and God's words, we know it's not about us personally, but all about what God says is true or not.

We seek the truth of Scripture, not personal opinions whether agreeing or disagreeing.



Good. I haven't seen them. Tell me where to find them, or copy them here for me. I'd be more than glad to see what you have.


I show you how to have an argument worth having. Otherwise, I'll be forced to not look at your 'replies'.


True. Not explaining why I disagree with someone is not one of my style.

Post 89

 

[for_his_glory]

You claim God sends the two witnesses yet Christ said he is the last God would send.
Are you saying Jesus is wrong?

Where is your proof that Jesus is wrong?

No, I am saying you need to study who these two witnesses are as in what I gave to you in Post # 148 as you study the full context of Rev 11:1-14 and all the other scriptures that explain who the two witnesses are.

Where is your proof that Jesus was the last witness as how does one witness of His own self. We are all witness of Christ and testify of Him.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No, I am saying you need to study who these two witnesses are as in what I gave to you in Post # 148 as you study the full context of Rev 11:1-14 and all the other scriptures that explain who the two witnesses are.

Where is your proof that Jesus was the last witness as how does one witness of His own self. We are all witness of Christ and testify of Him.

Jesus said that he is the last ,that God would send.
God has not sent a other prophet since so I would say that Jesus is correct.Verse 37.

33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Challenge accepted RBDERRICK .

Lets see using Rev 17+18 only as that is the only place Babylon the Great is described.
Sorry that I will have to ask a lot of questions... but because I don't believe the Whore is Jerusalem... I don't have answers to questions that need answers for Jerusalem to be the Whore.

Rev 17:1... Whore sits on many waters... is Jerusalem multicultural with every nation of the earth represented. Somewhat but not as much as others.
Rev 17:2... Has Jerusalem committed fornication with the Kings of the earth... I have heard nothing in any news source that Jerusalem has done this. I have had other places shown to have fornicated with the kings of the earth though.
Rev 17:3... I don't see a Scarlet Beast that Jerusalem is beholden to(in direct partnership with) but that also hates Jerusalem. Does the US play this role in your scheme?
Rev 17:4... Purple and Scarlet, gold, jewels would indicate riches, power or prestige... I don't see this with Jerusalem on the world stage.
Rev 17:4... Where is the cup filled with the filthiness of Jerusalem's fornication? How much is Jerusalem responsible for the moral decay of the world?
Rev 17:5... Where is there any evidence that Jerusalem is the greatest, mama of whores on earth. How much sexual depravity has Jerusalem been responsible for over the ages?
Rev 17:6... Have you ever been drunk before... the whore is visibly drunk... that indicates recent drinking. In recent memory how much blood has been spilled by Jerusalem?
Rev 17:7-14... Who is the Beast supposed to be if Jerusalem is the Whore? I see no nation or "system" that matches any of the descriptions of the Beast.
Rev 17:18... In what way does Jerusalem reign over the Kings of the earth? I see treaty negotiations and trade happening... but Jerusalem does not issue commands and the world obeys.

Rev 18:3... What sexual acts have the nations(not the kings) done with Jerusalem?
Rev 18:3... The merchants of the earth have not gotten rich off of Jerusalem's shopping. What % of the world market is Jerusalem?
Rev 18:7... I don't see Jerusalem glorifying herself nor do I see Jerusalem having lived deliciously. If you think Jerusalem has been a paradise in the recent past... ask a Jew their opinion.
Rev 18:7... when have you ever heard a Jewish person say "I will see no sorrow". It is a meme that Jews are pessimistic about their lot in life.
Rev 18:9... Kings of the earth having sexual activity with Jerusalem again... I have heard nothing of this in the news. And yet I have heard of sexual influence peddling that happens in other nations.
Rev 18:11... How much does Jerusalem buy from all the merchants of the earth?... Only a large market share county would have the merchants of the world weeping because "NO MAN BUYS THEIR MERCHANDISE ANYMORE"... Sp obviously the Whore is a HUGE consumer of world goods.
Rev 18:12-15... Not specific products but a huge catalog of products are sold to the Whore. And if you sell to the Whore you are not selling to another market by comparison.
Rev 18:15... Merchants of this long list of products were made rich by the Whore. What merchant companies has Jerusalem made rich?
Rev 18:21... Babylon will never be found again. Jerusalem will be the heart of the Millennial Kingdom. Rev 20:9.

Now if Jerusalem is the Whore... all of the above must fit with Jerusalem.
This is the list I came up with in 5-10 minutes this morning... Do I have to add to the list? I have tried to cover everything.
I may have missed a point or two and we can go over the missing points if you want.
You asked for reasons why Jerusalem is NOT the Whore.
How did I do with your challenge?

These are very valid points as I can't see why anyone thinking Jerusalem is the whore of Babylon, especially when during its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times and both Temples destroyed. What merchandise did Jerusalem have that would have made her the hub of trade activities.

oy vey

 

[for_his_glory]

Still waiting for you to show the beast attacking a different city than Jerusalem.

I know this is not directed at me, but I still want to reply to this.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. So by showing us with scripture who is this beast you talk about and exactly when will it destroy Jerusalem?

There are three places in Revelation that speaks about the bottomless pit, but none speaks about a beast that comes up to attack and destroy Jerusalem.

Revelation 9:1-12 speaks about a bottomless pit, but only locust that come up out of it as they are commanded by God to not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Apollyon is king over the bottomless pit that was given the key meaning Gods authority and power was given him to open the pit and gives these locust their authority to go forth and torment men for five months. Apollyon means destroyer in Greek and destruction in Hebrew as he is known as Abaddon in Hebrew. He is an angel of God that He uses throughout the OT and here in vs. 1, 11 to bring about Gods commands when it comes to the destruction of people of disobedience, Exodus 12:23; 2Kings 6:14-18; Proverbs 15:11, 12; Jeremiah 4:7; Daniel 10:13; 1 Corinthians 10:10.​

Revelation 11:7 is about the two witnesses and has nothing to do with Jerusalem being attacked or any other nation at that time. The beast that rises up out of the bottomless pit is that of a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system that tries to silence the two witnesses sent by God.

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

The third bottomless pit that is mentioned in Revelation 20:1-3 is the timing when Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit until the 1000 years are finished.

All three bottomless pits are only symbolic and not literal holes in the ground without any bottoms.​

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus said that he is the last ,that God would send.
God has not sent a other prophet since so I would say that Jesus is correct.Verse 37.

33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

Sorry, but I see nothing in that parable about Jesus being the last one that God would send as that is not what that parable is about. Jesus being the only begotten of the Father being the Son of God was the first and the last and will return again as King of kings and Lord of lords as He was not only a Prophet, but the promised Messiah. There will never be another Messiah, but I do believe there are prophets today according to the gifts of the Spirit in Ephesians 4:11-12.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've already told you once before that you need to pay attention to revelation.

Do I need to show you yet another verse that you don't know?

All I can see is you mixing up scriptures throughout this thread making them line up with what you say.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've only been quoting scripture.
If you don't like scripture,take it up with the Lamb.

Even Satan can quote scripture so what is your point in saying this.

 

[for_his_glory]

The gentiles will only occupy Jerusalem for 42 months.

This is correct, but one has to study to see who this Gentile son of perdition is that will take his seat in Jerusalem claiming he is God as even the elect of God could be deceived by his lying signs and wonders. Matthew 24:24; 2Thessalonians 2:1-12.

When the second temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans other Roman temples were built there and destroyed during various revolts up to the fourth century. From the fourth century the temple mount laid undeveloped until the Muslim Siege of Jerusalem in 637 CE. Between 689-691 CE the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock which stands today, but now under renovations that have to do with the prophecy of the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 and the great falling away before the return of Jesus.

John in his vision was to measure the Spiritual temple of God as being those who are truly in Christ through the Spiritual rebirth that worship Him in all truths, John 3:3-7, which make up the temple of God as being the body of Christ. The symbolic here represents God separating and protecting His people. The temple of God is no longer made by hand since the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom, Matthew 27:50, 51; Acts 7:48-51. The temple of God is within man that has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that keeps himself undefiled before the Lord, Matthew 27:51; Mark 7:15-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17.

The outer court represents that of the control the Gentiles (Revived Roman Empire) will once again have over the Holy city like that of 70AD as they take full control over Jerusalem and trampled it for 3 ½ years at the sounding of the seventh trumpet as we will see history repeat itself. Matthew 24:21 Jesus said this will be the worst tribulation there has ever been nor will ever be again.​

 

[RBDERRICK]

Challenge accepted RBDERRICK .

Lets see using Rev 17+18 only as that is the only place Babylon the Great is described.

The great city is in Rev 11, 14, 16-18, & 21. Since the great city in Rev 21 is New Jerusalem, then we can discount that one as being the great city Babylon of Revelation.

Your task is to show in Revelation how the great city Jerusalem and the great city named Babylon cannot be the same.

Until then, it makes perfect sense that great city is the same throughout Revelation, except of course for New Jerusalem.

Sorry that I will have to ask a lot of questions... but because I don't believe the Whore is Jerusalem...

I believe the Scriptural sense of it. Personal beliefs don't matter to me.

Rev 17:1... Whore sits on many waters...

is Jerusalem multicultural with every nation of the earth represented. Somewhat but not as much as others

We're speaking of that great city just before the Lord returns. If you are saying the Lord is returning today or tomorrow, then say so. And tell us which great city fits the bill today.

Rev 17:4... Where is the cup filled with the filthiness of Jerusalem's fornication? How much is Jerusalem responsible for the moral decay of the world?

Slaying the Lord doesn't count?

I see no nation or "system" that matches any of the descriptions of the Beast.

Then why are you acting as if the descriptions of prophecy must be fully seen today?

You're not proving by Scripture of Revelation that great city Babylon cannot be that great city Jerusalem. All you're doing is showing no city on earth fits the bill today.

Rev 17:18... In what way does Jerusalem reign over the Kings of the earth? I see treaty negotiations and trade happening... but Jerusalem does not issue commands and the world obeys.

Not today.

Rev 18:3... What sexual acts have the nations(not the kings) done with Jerusalem?

I've never heard of a nation committing a sexual act with a city. Even the orgies of Rome didn't pull that one off.

Rev 18:3... The merchants of the earth have not gotten rich off of Jerusalem's shopping. What % of the world market is Jerusalem?

When we see the last false apostle selling himself as christ come again in the flesh, and much of the world believes it, then ask.

Rev 18:7... when have you ever heard a Jewish person say "I will see no sorrow". It is a meme that Jews are pessimistic about their lot in life.

Now you're saying that great city is already come in all her glory and has already fallen.

How did I do with your challenge?

Not at all.

I'm looking for proof in the Scriptures of Revelation that great city Babylon cannot be that great city Jerusalem, just before the Lord returns, which is when that great city is prophesied of rising and falling.

I already know that great city has yet to rear her head in full whorish glory, much less already fallen.

I also already know it's not that great city New Jerusalem.