Bible Study The Lie of Sinless Perfection.

[Hopeful 2]

Why?

What's wrong with your flesh if it's sinless?

The "flesh" of Gal 5:16, and Rom 8:1,4, is not skin and bones, but a worldly oriented mind.
The skin and bones of the reborn is the new vessel for new wine from Jesus' parable in Matt 9:17.

I was reading this this morning..."For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
If we have been made 'the righteousness of God in Christ', how can we still have unrighteousness on us ?

 

[Tenchi]

Bump.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Bump.

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

I thank God for His disciple Paul, and for Paul's writings concerning obedience to God.

 

[JLB]

When and where does the Spirit do that amazing thing ?

Daily. Within the believer.

 

[JLB]

Start your daily walks from a clean and sanctified point.

Yes daily confession of sin, even sin you are not aware of.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10


Reading the scriptures and setting your mind on things above and thus having no fellowship with the world.

Praying in the Spirit.

Thanking, praising and worshiping God and spending time in His presence.

These are just some of the ways we “sow” to the Spirit.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Notice Paul didn’t say he who is water baptized will reap everlasting life.


Walking according to the Spirit is something we must learn to do daily.

 

[Tenchi]

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

I thank God for His disciple Paul, and for Paul's writings concerning obedience to God.

Nope. Wrong. But your mistaken thinking here is certainly typical of the determined false teacher. In actuality, what Paul described was the born-again person's spiritual position in Christ, not their obedience. In Christ, the believer is perfect, not in their daily living. This has been exhaustively pointed out to you in the OP and ensuing thread.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Daily. Within the believer.

So you do not believe the scriptures I supplied with the answer ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nope. Wrong. But your mistaken thinking here is certainly typical of the determined false teacher. In actuality, what Paul described was the born-again person's spiritual position in Christ, not their obedience. In Christ, the believer is perfect, not in their daily living. This has been exhaustively pointed out to you in the OP and ensuing thread.

I have never thought of my being "in Christ" as anything less than "being in Christ".
If your way gives you confidence that God is more than only partially your Leader, then go with it.
Your way can't do that for me.
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

 

[JLB]

So you do not believe the scriptures I supplied with the answer ?

I believe the scriptures but you just state your opinion and then tag your opinion with a scripture reference without supplying an actual scripture.


that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, Ephesians 3:16-17


The flesh, the mortal physical body, is at war against the Spirit, because your flesh body was not born again.


For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Your flesh body contains sin and is opposed to the born again new nature that contains the Holy Spirit.




JLB

 

[Tenchi]

I have never thought of my being "in Christ" as anything less than "being in Christ".
If your way gives you confidence that God is more than only partially your Leader, then go with it.
Your way can't do that for me.

This isn't a question of perspective, or opinion, but of the plain statement of Paul in the verse you quoted. One has simply to read the verse to see what you've apparently missed entirely. But such blindness on your part is very much in the vein of taking up and promoting false doctrine.

Also, framing my position in the Strawman way that you did above simply exposes the fallacious style of your reasoning, which you've been employing with God's word, too, not anything that is actually the case about my understanding of God's truth.

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

Yes? And? Did Peter write, "...has ceased from all sin for all time"? Of course not. That's would be a silly thing to write since he had been directing his born-again audience to various beliefs and actions which he would not have done, obviously, if they had already known and been doing the things he instructed them to understand and do. You seem to be incapable of making these sorts of simple steps of reasoning, but, again, this inability to reason well is part of the price you pay for wilfully adopting and promoting falsehood.

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I believe the scriptures but you just state your opinion and then tag your opinion with a scripture reference without supplying an actual scripture.

Scripture is scripture.
Do you have a different interpretation of Rom 6:3-7 ?

that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, Ephesians 3:16-17

Amen to that.

The flesh, the mortal physical body, is at war against the Spirit, because your flesh body was not born again.

Which one are you giving control of your soul to ?

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Thanks be to God we can walk in and after the Spirit instead of walking in and after the "flesh".
Walking in the Spirit makes it impossible to do the things of the "flesh".

Your flesh body contains sin and is opposed to the born again new nature that contains the Holy Spirit.

You are not correct.
When I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (Acts 2:38), ALL my past sins were washed away.
Being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, after my "immersion" into His death and burial, has facilitated a walk as Jesus walked.

If your skin and bones are determining your judgement, it is time to crucify them. (Gal 5:24)

 

[Hopeful 2]

This isn't a question of perspective, or opinion, but of the plain statement of Paul in the verse you quoted. One has simply to read the verse to see what you've apparently missed entirely. But such blindness in your part is in very much in the vein of taking up and promoting false doctrine.

I will reprint it..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)"
It is plain that what he preached can make a man perfect in Christ.
So unless a man isn't in Christ all the time, he will walk as Christ walked.
You are proposing a part-time Christianity.

Also, framing my position in the Strawman way that you did above, simply exposes the fallacious style of your reasoning, which you've been employing with God's word, too, not anything that is actually the case about my understanding of God's truth.

Obey God and live forever.
That is as plain as I can make it for you.

Yes? And? Did Peter write, "...has ceased from all sin for all time"? Of course not.

If it is full time Christianity, it will.
I know it won't in the part-time religions.

That's would be a silly thing to write since he had been directing his born-again audience to various beliefs and actions which he would not have done, obviously, if they had already known and been doing the things he instructed them to understand and do. You seem to incapable of making these sorts of simple steps of reasoning, but, again, this inability to reason well is part of the price you pay for wilfully adopting and promoting falsehood.

Peter is just one of the preachers of the ways and means of victory on the day of judgement.
None of them write of a part-time faith.
Here are a couple more of his verses implying that our efforts are involved in our salvation...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
If one doesn't give diligence to make their calling and election sure, they will manifest the part-time believer they are.

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Perfectly true...when uttered by those walking in darkness. (1 John 1:6,8,10)
But God offers us the way to walk in the light, in Him...(1 John 1:5,7,9)

Walk in the light-God, or walk in the darkness-sin. (Pro 4:19)
It is a choice we have to make.

 

[Tenchi]

I will reprint it..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)"
It is plain that what he preached can make a man perfect in Christ.

Only if one already intends to read his words through the lens of the false doctrine of sinless perfection. To the rest of us not wearing such distorting "lenses," Peter says no such thing.

So unless a man isn't in Christ all the time, he will walk as Christ walked.
You are proposing a part-time Christianity.

Nope. In this thread, I've already explained to you ad nauseum why this is entirely false. Simply repeating your error won't somehow make what Scripture actually says disappear or change.

You are proposing a part-time Christianity.

Just another Strawman. In fact, I'm not.

Obey God and live forever.
That is as plain as I can make it for you.

Just more equivocation and Begging the Question.

If it is full time Christianity, it will.
I know it won't in the part-time religions.

You ignored my question. Did Peter write "has ceased from all sin for all time"? No, he didn't. For the many reasons I've pointed out in this thread.

And there is more Strawman stuff in your response here, too.

Peter is just one of the preachers of the ways and means of victory on the day of judgement.
None of them write of a part-time faith.

Deflection and Strawman.

Here are a couple more of his verses implying that our efforts are involved in our salvation...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
If one doesn't give diligence to make their calling and election sure, they will manifest the part-time believer they are.

And...more Strawman stuff, as well as misconstruing Scripture.

Perfectly true...when uttered by those walking in darkness. (1 John 1:6,8,10)
But God offers us the way to walk in the light, in Him...(1 John 1:5,7,9)

Walk in the light-God, or walk in the darkness-sin. (Pro 4:19)
It is a choice we have to make.

1 John 1:7-9
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Under what condition does such cleansing occur?

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And so:

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

See? This isn't hard to understand.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Only if one already intends to read his words through the lens of the false doctrine of sinless perfection. To the rest of us not wearing such distorting "lenses," Peter says no such thing.

Once one has actually repented of sin and received the gift of the holy Ghost, the readings become much clearer.

Nope. In this thread, I've already explained to you ad nauseum why this is entirely false. Simply repeating your error won't somehow make what Scripture actually says disappear or change.

It seems false to you because you are defending the indefensible.

Just another Strawman. In fact, I'm not.

Were you "in Christ" when you decided that to reply that way, or were you still walking after the flesh when you wrote that ?

Just more equivocation and Begging the Question.

"Obey God and live forever" seems very plain to me.
So does remaining "in Him".
It is written..."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
Part-time believers are going to perish.

You ignored my question. Did Peter write "has ceased from all sin for all time"? No, he didn't. For the many reasons I've pointed out in this thread.

How many times can one suffer with Christ at their baptism into His death and burial ?
Once !

And there is more Strawman stuff in your response here, too.

One is either in Christ or they are not.
Isn't that the position you hold ?

Deflection and Strawman.

...no rebuttal ?

And...more Strawman stuff, as well as misconstruing Scripture.

"Here are a couple more of his verses implying that our efforts are involved in our salvation...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
If one doesn't give diligence to make their calling and election sure, they will manifest the part-time believer they are."
Which part was a strawman and which was misconstrued ?

1 John 1:7-9
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Under what condition does such cleansing occur?

The conditions are...a real turn from sin, (repentance), and confession of same. (Acts 2:38 and 1 John 1:9)

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And so:
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
See? This isn't hard to understand.

So in your religion, the washing was somehow incomplete ?
After I was washed, I said "I have no sin!"
Why couldn't you ?
Did you not confess ?
Or did you not repent ?

 

[JLB]

Scripture is scripture.
Do you have a different interpretation of Rom 6:3-7 ?

Yes scripture is scripture.

What you posted is not scripture.


Here is what a scripture looks like and what Paul teaches to water baptized born again Christian’s -


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12