Bible Study The Lie of Sinless Perfection.

[SuperKal]

I'm saying that All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, including everything in the Torah, just as it is written. ALL SCRIPTURE.

I agree with you, but before I blocked Hopeful 2, he didn't say that there was some scripture that wasn't God inspired... He said that there were some parts of scripture that were not meant for us, and that is true.

The Levitical law was meant for Israel, and when Jesus came, died on the cross, and rose again on the third day, His death on the cross put an end for the need of literal sacrifices on an altar. Because of His finished work, New Testament Christians no longer have to abide by the Levitical law in order to be saved.

I can wear jeans and eat bacon, and still be saved.

 

[Humblepie]

New Testament Christians no longer have to abide by the Levitical law in order to be saved.

Neither did OT jews.
If you think the OT message is salvation through obedience, you should read it again, because doesn't say that.

The same way for me to be proclaimed righteous in God's eyes is the same way moses was to be proclaimed righteous. By my faith.

Do we then make void the law because of this faith? As it is written,
No, we uphold the law.


Since the beginning it's always about righteousness through faith, never righteousness through obedience.

The law never made anyone righteous, it only point to what sin is and why we need a savior.

Your obedience is the effect of your righteousness, not the cause of your righteousness.

 

[Humblepie]

I can wear jeans and eat bacon, and still be saved.

So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

You may be saved....eat what makes your flesh happy.

 

[SuperKal]

Neither did OT jews.
If you think the OT message is salvation through obedience, you should read it again, because doesn't say that.

The same way for me to be proclaimed righteous in God's eyes is the same way moses was to be proclaimed righteous. By my faith.

Do we then make void the law because of this faith? As it is written,
No, we uphold the law.


Since the beginning it's always about righteousness through faith, never righteousness through obedience.

The law never made anyone righteous, it only point to what sin is and why we need a savior.

Your obedience is the effect of your righteousness, not the cause of your righteousness.

Ok, apparently you've never actually read the Old Testament, because in order to be a part of Judaism back then, you had to be converted, and follow the Levitical law, and even back then, following the law was a sign of true faith.

Jesus never said anything about voiding the law, as He Himself said, He did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it, and when He died on the cross come He said "it is finished", and in that moment, the veil that separated the holy of Holies from the Holies was torn directly down the middle come on meaning we now no longer have to follow the Old Testament Levitical law in order to reach out to Jesus, we now have a direct line, because Jesus Christ himself was the sacrifice on the altar.

Paul makes it abundantly clear that righteousness is the abstinence of sin, 1 Corinthians 15:34
Are obedience is proof that are faith is perfect, and that's exactly what James teaches in James 2:13-26, and that's also what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-10

So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

You may be saved....eat what makes your flesh happy.

No one's gonna go to hell simply because they eat bacon... the way you talk about the Levitical law implies that you still want to follow the Levitical law.

Paul says in Galatians 5:1-4 if you do that, if you follow one law, you are indebted to follow the entire law, and those who attempt to be justified by the law are estranged from Christ, and fallen from grace.

 

[Humblepie]

Ok, apparently you've never actually read the Old Testament,

If you think the OT message is salvation through obedience, you should read it again, because doesn't say that.

 

[Humblepie]

No one's gonna go to hell simply because they eat bacon...

So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

You may be saved....eat what makes your flesh happy.

 

[Humblepie]

Paul makes it abundantly clear that righteousness is the abstinence of sin,

Romans 2:13
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

 

[Humblepie]

Ok, apparently you've never actually read the Old Testament, because in order to be a part of Judaism back then, you had to be converted, and follow the Levitical law, and even back then, following the law was a sign of true faith.

It was always faith that justified...
Never the law....not in one instance.

I will repeat myself again.

The whole Word of God, the message from front to back is the same.

We are Justified through faith, not through works of the law.

Do we make void the law because we have faith?

God forbid.


We establish the law.

 

[Humblepie]

Paul says in Galatians 5:1-4 if you do that, if you follow one law, you are indebted to follow the entire law, and those who attempt to be justified by the law are estranged from Christ, and fallen from grace.

He writes this in the context that if you follow the law to make you righteous, it will profit you nothing.

Galatians is against following the law for Salvation. It is not written against the law for doctrine.


Gal 5:4
4. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.



Did you catch that? He says those who are trying to be [[[[[justified by the law]]]]] have fallen from grace.

He did not say those who follow the law have fallen from grace.


13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),


He did not redeem us from the blessings of the law, only the curse of the law.

Deut 11:26

26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

 

[Humblepie]

following the law [[[was]]] a sign of true faith.

Was a sign???

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.



I would say it [[[[[ IS. ]]]] A sign of your faith.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Was a sign???

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.



I would say it [[[[[ IS. ]]]] A sign of your faith.

Can you keep that Law perfectly ?

 

[SuperKal]

If you think the OT message is salvation through obedience, you should read it again, because doesn't say that.

You really do not know how to listen to someone, do you?...
I never said the message of salvation in the Old Testament was salvation through obedience. Once again, you are twisting someone's words.

I said that salvation in the Old Testament was through faith, but in order for that Faith to be true in genuine, they had to obey. That's the mark of true faith: obedience. You cannot have real genuine faith without obedience.

And I will say this for one last time, then I'm putting you on ignore, because you have a very bad habit of twisting what people say, and making it sound like they say something else entirely...

the Mosaic law is no longer meant for us. It was meant for the nation of Israel, and it was this law that set them apart from the rest of the world. Today, we go through Jesus christ, and what sets us apart from the world today is the abstinence of sin.

We no longer have to burn an animal sacrifice on an altar for forgiveness of sin. Jesus fulfilled the law, and your desire to go back to the law, to follow the Mosaic Law, voids you of your salvation.

I am not going to sit here and play word games with a judaizer, nor will I have my words twisted by a judaizer.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You cannot have real genuine faith without obedience.

In light of the OP, do you think sin shows a lack of real genuine faith ?

 

[Humblepie]

and your desire to go back to the law, to follow the Mosaic Law, voids you of your salvation.

Scripture?

 

[Humblepie]

the Mosaic law is no longer meant for us.

Scripture? In context of course..

Jesus fulfilled the law

Yes, but he didn't abolish, or get rid of, or eliminate.

He fully lived the meaning of the law, therefore fulfilling the law.

Fulfill does not mean abolish.

The geek word fulfill is pleroo.

And I will say this for one last time, then I'm putting you on ignore,

Then you can remain stuck in a false teaching or doctrine.

 

[Humblepie]

You really do not know how to listen to someone, do you?...
I never said the message of salvation in the Old Testament was salvation through obedience. Once again, you are twisting someone's words.

I said that salvation in the Old Testament was through faith, but in order for that Faith to be true in genuine, they had to obey. That's the mark of true faith: obedience. You cannot have real genuine faith without obedience.

And I will say this for one last time, then I'm putting you on ignore, because you have a very bad habit of twisting what people say, and making it sound like they say something else entirely...

the Mosaic law is no longer meant for us. It was meant for the nation of Israel, and it was this law that set them apart from the rest of the world. Today, we go through Jesus christ, and what sets us apart from the world today is the abstinence of sin.

We no longer have to burn an animal sacrifice on an altar for forgiveness of sin. Jesus fulfilled the law, and your desire to go back to the law, to follow the Mosaic Law, voids you of your salvation.

I am not going to sit here and play word games with a judaizer, nor will I have my words twisted by a judaizer.

I can prove my belief through scripture just like Paul did with the jews that are zealous for the law.


Acts 6:13-14
13 And set up.


false witnesses,

which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place,


and the law:


14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.


False witnesses claiming Jesus came to change the law and customs which Moses delivered to us.


So if they are false statements.
What they claimed isn't TRUTH.

But it's exactly what you claim as truth.

 

[Humblepie]

Can you keep that Law perfectly ?

What's your point?

 

[Humblepie]

because you have a very bad habit of twisting what people say, and making it sound like they say something else entirely...

Then be articulate.

 

[Humblepie]

New Testament Christians no longer have to abide by the Levitical law in order to be saved.

That was your word for word quote.

I never said the message of salvation in the Old Testament was salvation through obedience.

 

[Humblepie]

And I will say this for one last time, then I'm putting you on ignore,

So a mature respectful debate between adult Christians with scripture to back what we claim as truth, is out of the question?