A Foreunion with God the Father

[beloved57]

1 pet 1:

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

It is being carelessly set forth today in apostate religon, that God the Father's foreknowledge of his elect elect consist of what He merely foresees of them. Though of certainy God does forsee all, yet this is not the focus of His foreknowledge at all.

Instead its foreknowing the person or persons in a favorable, most intimate way. This forknowing denotes a special union, that the Father had with His elect ones, and is foundational of Him giving them to His Son, before the foundation of the world.

Jesus said in his prayer jn 17:
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Why does Jesus say this ? Thine they were ? Because God Loved them in a Fatherly Paternal way, and had their supreme best interest at heart, so much so, he gave[ not offered] them [in election] to His Son the Lord Jesus christ..

God the Father in fact Loved them as He Loved His own Son, before the world began:
jn 17:
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Now notice vs 23:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

As The Father Loved the Lord Jesus christ in His being before the foundation of the world, so likewise He Loved His chosen ones before the foundation of the world.
.
This was a everlasting Love as described in jer 31:
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
each of Gods elect have been Loved personally and intimately in the Eternal Mind and Heart of God..

These Loved ones were so precious in His sight, that He gave them to His Son the Lord Jesus christ for their preservation and safe keeping..hence making it known to The Son, His great confidence and ability he had in Him to be entrusted with such a valuable inheritance..

God the Father had sanctifed these Loved ones for Himself, then gave them to His Son jude:
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Again, they were Loved and in union with God the Father, then given to union [ by election] to The Son, he being made their Head and elder brother..

In view of the fall in adam, which was planned by God aforetime, in order to make manifest His eternal grace towards His beloved chosen ones, He gave their spritual wellbeing into the care of His Son, so that they may be preserved in Him..

In adam, all the elect fell and died , and in christ all are preserved and made alive..
God's foreknowing denotes a intimate union with them.

The word know is ginsko and does denote a love or knowing by union i.e..remember what is said about joseph and mary..before joseph knew her she was pregnant with the baby Jesus.
.
matt 1:
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

That word knew [gnisko] can be translated union as in the niv:

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

So the word foreknow is denoting a foreunion with God the father, this foreunion centered in His everlasting Love for them, for this bonds the union just as charity bonds the union of true believers,col 3:
14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness
This is the Love bond God sustained for His elect before the foundation of the world and constituted His foreknowing us..

paul speaks about the foreknown in rom 11:
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
They in rom 11 2 is same as

rom 8:
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

These are the elect of God as in rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth
rom 11:
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Its only a remanat of mankind that is blessedly favoured to be foreknwn by God and by The Lord Jesus christ..


remember Jesus will say to many in that great day, many who have been striving to make it in, they will hear these frightful words..

matt 7:
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
see that, I never knew you, not never saw you..but never knew you in a intimate way, never was in union with you..never were you given to me of the Father..

Depart from me, you that work iniquity..notice who he terms them that work iniqutiy, not harlots and drug attics, but religous folks, church goers..notice what they have said:

matt 7:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
No doubt these folk were very active in religous duties..but , they were not foreknown by God the father, they were not never in foreunion with Him..

 

[sonship37]

Amen. If you were never IN God to begin with...you never will be. Same as any father's children.

 

[stovebolts]

Sonship37,
I’m sorry you view scripture in the light that some were created with the destiny of hell while others were created predestined heaven bound. Perhaps it’s the serpent seed theology that is leading you astray.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

YLT puts it this way;
Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

Man, being created in the Image of God, became a living creature because God infused His breath with His creation and in a funny way, we became these divine dirt clods. Eve, who is flesh of Adam’s flesh, bone of his bone, was one with Adam, and inherited God’s life giving breath, just as Cain, Able, you and I have inherited.

 

[sonship37]

Sonship37,
I’m sorry you view scripture in the light that some were created with the destiny of hell while others were created predestined heaven bound. Perhaps it’s the serpent seed theology that is leading you astray.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

YLT puts it this way;
Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

Man, being created in the Image of God, became a living creature because God infused His breath with His creation and in a funny way, we became these divine dirt clods. Eve, who is flesh of Adam’s flesh, bone of his bone, was one with Adam, and inherited God’s life giving breath, just as Cain, Able, you and I have inherited.

You don't have to be sorry. I enjoy true Revelation from God. That's the security of God's elect. My honoring of foundational Truths is what keeps me anchored in the narrow way. Like water baptism in Jesus Christ's name. Without cornerstone foundations one is open to every denominational wind of compropmise.

Sad you include Cain in with God, Adam and Seth...when no one else in Scripture did. Luke 3 & Jude 14

 

[stovebolts]

I see now...,
Well then, I do not deny that there are those of the elect, but what I would ask you or others is this. What is the purpose of the elect in relation to those not included as the elect. BTW, please provide scripture for your position.
Thanks,
SB

 

[beloved57]

What is the purpose of the elect in relation to those not included as the elect.

Gods discriminating mercy and grace is revealed..An aspect of His Glory being shown..

eph 33:


18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19And he[ God] said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Paul eludes to this when speaking on Gods discriminating election rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God says its His right and Glory to do as He pleases with His mercy and compassion, not the will of the creature..

 

[Drew]

Paul eludes to this when speaking on Gods discriminating election rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Paul is not talking about "election unto salvation" here - he is talking more generally about God's ability to sovereignly "manipulate" people and nations to achieve his purpose.

In Romans 9, the eternal status of Jacob and Esau is nowhere on Paul's mind. The following text does not even address the issue of eternal destinies of Jacob or Esau. Paul tells us what they are "elected to" - that one will serve the other. Why people think that they need to correct Paul on this is indeed a great mystery.

Let's look at the text:

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or badâ€â€in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who callsâ€â€she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

Imagine Paul sitting there with his scribe, having just dictated "in order that God's purpose in election might stand". Where does this statement leave the reader? Obviously, it leaves the reader asking "Well, what is that purpose? What is God "choosing" or "selecting" Jacob and Esau for, exactly?"

So Paul answers this question. He says that the election was not based on "works" (the works of Torah) but rather on the specific calling of God. And then Paul tells us what God has "called" or chosen or "elected" Jacob and Esau for.

They were chosen / selected / elected to a state where "the older will serve the younger". Eternal destiny is nowhere in sight.

If Paul is addressing selection or election to eternal life or eternal loss, you have to believe that, after raising the topic of God’s purpose in election, Paul has suffered a sudden bout of amnesia and makes an entirely unannounced and immediate transition to a different subject altogether - the issue of something else that God selected these two for. That is, one serving the other.

What kind of a writer would do that ? First, state that God has one purpose in selection (election) for two people, and then spell out the details of an entirely different election?

Paul is not whacked in the head. He raises the question of election and then tells us immediately what the election is about. And, of course, it has nothing whatsoever to do with eternal life.

It is simply that Esau has been elected to serve Jacob (in the sense that Esau's descendents -the Edomites - will serve Jacob's descendent - the people of Israel).

And, of course, Paul's allusion to Genesis 25 seals the deal. It makes it clear that the "election" in question has nothing to do with eternal life and everything to do with events here on earth:

The LORD said to her,
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger."

 

[stovebolts]

Well beloved57, I've got to tell ya. If I were to simply look at scripture as dry text, you might convince me of your argument.

But I don't see the Bible as dry text... I see it as God revealing himself through history, poetry, letters and instruction. In the account of Romans 9, I believe you are out of context of the narrative it points to.

To put the Elect into perspective, do these verses help? (Read them within their perspective narratives.

Deuteronomy 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Clearly, the Elect had a purpose and as far as I can tell, it wasn't self serving.

 

[beloved57]

Paul is not talking about "election unto salvation" here - he is talking more generally about God's ability to sovereignly "manipulate" people and nations to achieve his purpose.

wrong paul is speaking about those who are of the election of grace both of the jews and gentiles..

rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[beloved57]

But I don't see the Bible as dry text... I see it as God revealing himself through history, poetry, letters and instruction. In the account of Romans 9, I believe you are out of context of the narrative it points to.

Thats because you dont believe the truth..

 

[Blazin Bones]

Okay, before we get to the bashing we normally arrive at in many of these discussions, let's please refrain from attacking each other. First and LAST warning.

 

[Arj]

Even the elect can stuff it up and be cast out.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Stovebolts:
"I’m sorry you view scripture in the light that some were created with the destiny of hell while others were created predestined heaven bound. Perhaps it’s the serpent seed theology that is leading you astray."

GE:
This is as false an accusation against both Beloved57 and Sonship37, as can be false.

I think you owe them an apology, that will restore their hohour in Jesus Christ in your opinion and everyone else's.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Even the elect can stuff it up and be cast out.

GE:
You surely are a stranger to sound doctrine. But your kind of comments can only do good for the cause of sound doctrine. Keep it up!

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

1 pet 1:

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

It is being carelessly set forth today in apostate religon, that God the Father's foreknowledge of his elect elect consist of what He merely foresees of them. Though of certainy God does forsee all, yet this is not the focus of His foreknowledge at all.

Instead its foreknowing the person or persons in a favorable, most intimate way. This forknowing denotes a special union, that the Father had with His elect ones, and is foundational of Him giving them to His Son, before the foundation of the world.

Jesus said in his prayer jn 17:
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Why does Jesus say this ? Thine they were ? Because God Loved them in a Fatherly Paternal way, and had their supreme best interest at heart, so much so, he gave[ not offered] them [in election] to His Son the Lord Jesus christ..

God the Father in fact Loved them as He Loved His own Son, before the world began:
jn 17:
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Now notice vs 23:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

As The Father Loved the Lord Jesus christ in His being before the foundation of the world, so likewise He Loved His chosen ones before the foundation of the world.
.
This was a everlasting Love as described in jer 31:
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
each of Gods elect have been Loved personally and intimately in the Eternal Mind and Heart of God..

These Loved ones were so precious in His sight, that He gave them to His Son the Lord Jesus christ for their preservation and safe keeping..hence making it known to The Son, His great confidence and ability he had in Him to be entrusted with such a valuable inheritance..

God the Father had sanctifed these Loved ones for Himself, then gave them to His Son jude:
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Again, they were Loved and in union with God the Father, then given to union [ by election] to The Son, he being made their Head and elder brother..

In view of the fall in adam, which was planned by God aforetime, in order to make manifest His eternal grace towards His beloved chosen ones, He gave their spritual wellbeing into the care of His Son, so that they may be preserved in Him..

In adam, all the elect fell and died , and in christ all are preserved and made alive..
God's foreknowing denotes a intimate union with them.

The word know is ginsko and does denote a love or knowing by union i.e..remember what is said about joseph and mary..before joseph knew her she was pregnant with the baby Jesus.
.
matt 1:
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

That word knew [gnisko] can be translated union as in the niv:

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

So the word foreknow is denoting a foreunion with God the father, this foreunion centered in His everlasting Love for them, for this bonds the union just as charity bonds the union of true believers,col 3:
14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness
This is the Love bond God sustained for His elect before the foundation of the world and constituted His foreknowing us..

paul speaks about the foreknown in rom 11:
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
They in rom 11 2 is same as

rom 8:
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

These are the elect of God as in rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth
rom 11:
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Its only a remanat of mankind that is blessedly favoured to be foreknwn by God and by The Lord Jesus christ..


remember Jesus will say to many in that great day, many who have been striving to make it in, they will hear these frightful words..

matt 7:
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
see that, I never knew you, not never saw you..but never knew you in a intimate way, never was in union with you..never were you given to me of the Father..

Depart from me, you that work iniquity..notice who he terms them that work iniqutiy, not harlots and drug attics, but religous folks, church goers..notice what they have said:

matt 7:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
No doubt these folk were very active in religous duties..but , they were not foreknown by God the father, they were not never in foreunion with Him..

GE:
Beloved57, Thank you for this very beautiful, inspiring, colsoling and absolutely true testimony to the Glory of our Sovereign Creator and Redeemer God.

Charles Hodge once said, if you want to know which is the right 'election' look for the one that is of greatest offence to man and human nature. (Not exactly his words, but his idea.)

 

[stovebolts]

Stovebolts:
"I’m sorry you view scripture in the light that some were created with the destiny of hell while others were created predestined heaven bound. Perhaps it’s the serpent seed theology that is leading you astray."

GE:
This is as false an accusation against both Beloved57 and Sonship37, as can be false.

I think you owe them an apology, that will restore their hohour in Jesus Christ in your opinion and everyone else's.

Gerhard,
The serpent seed theology comment was directed at Sonship37, not beloved57 or I would have addressed beloved57 directly on the matter.. Sonship37 is 3rddayuprising as a different account (against the tos) and yes, he affirmed this statement early on in another post as well as the pages he has written on his website. However, I do believe that beloved57 believes that there are those predestine to hell. That is their purpose for being created and they can do nothing about it. It's just the way things are. If I am wrong about this, then beloved can certainly speak for himself and clarify. But let it be known that I disagree that God created the elect for salvation only, and that those that are not of the elect were created and predestined for hell fire.

And the serpent seed nature continues to manifest...consulting familiar spirits and adulterous behaviour to satisfy ones self-willed ambition...even to "worship God " as Cain attempted and was REJECTED.

 

[stovebolts]

But I don't see the Bible as dry text... I see it as God revealing himself through history, poetry, letters and instruction. In the account of Romans 9, I believe you are out of context of the narrative it points to.

Thats because you dont believe the truth..

I see.... So then, as my brother, please lead me out of my error. Am I wrong to view scripture as God's revealed word to humanity through history, peoetry, letters and instructions? Am I now to abandon all of this and simply look at scripture as flat text disregarding the events that drove God's revelation to his elect?

 

[stovebolts]

Deuteronomy 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Clearly, the Elect had a purpose and as far as I can tell, it wasn't self serving.

Beloved57,
I believe that the above texts are referring to YHVH's elect. What I am interested in here is what is God's purpose for his elect? Why would YHVH care about the Gentiles if they were not his elect?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

God's Elect are from all nations (or from any of the nations). If they were from only one (or other) nation of the earth, then they could not have been God's chosen from before the foundation of the world, but God would have had to wait for that nation and that man before He could choose him, which is sacrilegious.

 

[stovebolts]

Gerhard,
That still does not answer the question. What was the purpose of the Elect and why?

Regards.