A message for all Sabbath breakers.....Owned!!

[Servant_2000]

I'm going to quote for you from Acts 26 (CEV) and substitute your name's for Saul's and to make a few other appropriate substitutions.

The reason I'm doing this is to show you that you have a chance to be like Saul. He became Paul when he finally realized that the person of our God Jesus Christ actually fulfilled and replaced the old covenant law on the cross and forever substituted Himself for it, since it was only a shadow pointing to him anyway.

Here goes:

^^One day some boys, SputnikBoy,Soma-Sight and Jay T. was in Silver Spring walking from the General Conference headquarters building with the authority and permission of the SDA hierarchy. About noon they saw a light brighter than the sun. It flashed from heaven on them and on everyone traveling with them. We all fell to the ground. Then I heard a voice say to me in English, "SputnickBy, Soma-Sight and Jay T, why are you so cruel to me? It's foolish to fight against me!"

"Who are you?" they asked.

Then the Lord answered, "I am Jesus! I am the one you are so cruel to. Now stand up. I have appeared to you, because I have chosen you to be My servant's. You are to tell others what you have learned about Me and what I will show you later."

The Lord also said, "I will protect you from the Adventists and from the non-Adventists that I am sending you to. I want you to open their eyes, so that they will turn form darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then their sins will be forgiven, and by faith in Me they will become part of God's holy people."^^

What do you say, boys?

 

[dcookcan]

Seriously, can you provide scriptural support for your assertion? I can show you several places where Jesus violated the Sabbath--intentionally.

Please make good on this offer. Show me evidence that Jesus broke the Law that he came to fulfill perfectly. Please use references from the Law to support your claim. The references must come from God's Law, not the traditions of men as recorded by the Jewish sages.

If you can provide this proof, then you have proven that we have believed in a false Messiah. Your silence will be enough proof that Jesus did not break the Law that He came to fulfill PERFECTLY!

 

[dcookcan]

Notice that Zecharaih said; "I will pour out on the house of David..." which agrees with everything I said. Grace comes from the death of our Lord, period. Those who lived before Christ, did not rise until after Christ's death on the cross. Jesus was the firstborn, and the first to enter the kingdom of heaven. No one before him could enter until he paid the price for their sins.

Do people on this forum not realize what Jesus did for them? Or do people just like to argue to get their names in print? Jesus saves, not us. We are saved by grace which is God's mercy when he sent his son to die for us. This is the basic principle behind Christianity! Works come from the thankfulness that Jesus saved us! They come from love for him, not to gain brownie points! Works are a natural response from our hearts. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." And they're not even works because they come out of joy! That's why the NT refers to them as good deeds instead of hard work.

Heidi, I realize that you think that everyone who tries to honour God's Sabbath is in error, but do you realize that your last statement confirms everything that they are saying. We have been saved through faith in Jesus and in response to His mercy (after all, we all deserve death), we strive to keep His commandments out of love and respect for our Messiah. It is not work when it is done out of love. And where does the OT ever say that keeping His commandments is supposed to be hard work? On the contrary; it actually says they are not burdensome. Being a christian has much more to do with how you express your love for God, rather than some magical mistery gooey spiritual feelings that you have in your heart. If you love Him - keep His commandments. (that's the first commandment)

FYI, I am not SDA.

 

[dcookcan]

I'm going to quote for you from Acts 26 (CEV) and substitute your name's for Saul's and to make a few other appropriate substitutions.

The reason I'm doing this is .........What do you say, boys?

Blatently twisting God's holy scriptures to make them say what you want. You've got a lot of nerve. Just remeber that the manner you judge others is the manner in which you will be judged.

 

[Servant_2000]

Seriously, can you provide scriptural support for your assertion? I can show you several places where Jesus violated the Sabbath--intentionally.

Please make good on this offer. Show me evidence that Jesus broke the Law that he came to fulfill perfectly. Please use references from the Law to support your claim. The references must come from God's Law, not the traditions of men as recorded by the Jewish sages.

If you can provide this proof, then you have proven that we have believed in a false Messiah. Your silence will be enough proof that Jesus did not break the Law that He came to fulfill PERFECTLY!

As the Lord answered Job out of the storm. He said:

Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?

The proof is within your Bible, read it..but it doesn't make God on earth, a false Messiah, but it deffinately show's that He is God, and can whatever He wants with His written law, it's His law, He can cancell it, nail it to a cross, and fulfill it all. YES?

=========

JESUS BROKE THE SABBATH. He broke it so that he could replace it with something better, something superior -- Himself.

You ask, and I shall provide then..Do you believe what the apostle John (John 5:16-18 NIV) unambiguously and unequivocally said He was doing?

^^^^^^^^^^^
Because Jesus was doing these things [working] on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I, too, am working". For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God his own Father, making Himself equal with God.
^^^^^^^^^^^

I do not argue that He broke the Spirit of the law. He Himself as God was and remains the Spirit of the law. Therefore He did not -- and indeed cannot -- break Himself.

But He did indeed break the LETTER of the law. Even if it was His own finger that was writing the letter of the law on two stone tablets on Mt. Sinai.


Data Point No. 1: As God He MIXED a clay poultice on the Sabbath (John 9:6-15). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work.â€Â

Data Point No. 2: As God He allowed His disciples to REAP wheat on the Sabbath and defended them against the Pharisees’ charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 3: As God He allowed His disciples to THRESH wheat (rub it between their hands so that the chaff fell away) on the Sabbath and defended them against the Pharisees’ charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 4: As God He commanded a man to PICK UP His sleeping mat and TRANSPORT it on the Sabbath (John 5:1-19). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 5: As God He allowed Peter’s mother-in-law to “WAIT ON Him†or “MINISTER UNTO Him [KJV]†on the Sabbath (Matthew 8:13-16). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

He didn't come to fulfill the law, He WAS the fulfillment of the law. That's a big difference.

Jesus' fulfilling of the law was not about keeping it perfectly. It was about His BEING the LAW. He is God. The law is inseparable from the person of God. The Jews, expected the Messiah to come. What they didn't understand (because it had been veiled in the Old Testament) was that the Messiah would actually BE GOD. When He came, He fuliflled the law. He was the God-man and every lawâ€â€including the 10â€â€pointed to. He fulfilled the law by being our Savior and our Creator and our Lord. His technical keeping or not keeping of the law was not what constituted His fulfilling it.

 

[Servant_2000]

I'm going to quote for you from Acts 26 (CEV) and substitute your name's for Saul's and to make a few other appropriate substitutions.

The reason I'm doing this is .........What do you say, boys?

Blatently twisting God's holy scriptures to make them say what you want. You've got a lot of nerve. Just remeber that the manner you judge others is the manner in which you will be judged.

You said>Blatently twisting God's holy scriptures to make them say what you want. You've got a lot of nerve.

What I did was inserted some names of some Adventist brothers, to make a point..and I do have nerve to do so...and you chimed right on in there with a misunderstanding to the reason...be careful next time..

Do you realize that if you don't judge others, you will be victimized by them?

Your under a crippling misconception there..that believers should do no judging of others at all.

This misconception is based on an unfortunate misreading of Matthew 7:1-2. Here it is (in RBV):

^^ Do not pass judgment, that you may not be judged; for the way you judge you will be judged and with what yardstick you measure you will be measured. ^^

From the Sermon on Mt. Blessings I have learned three lessons:

Lesson No. 1. As the NIV Study Bible text note for this passage makes clear, Jesus means, Do not judge HYPOCRITICALLY. For if you do, then others will rightfully judge you hypocritically under Christ’s “measure for measure†MFM teaching. However, under that same MFM teaching, if you judge someone humbly and according to Scripture, then others will judge you humbly and according to Scripture. And isn’t that the way you want to be judged? Especially by other Christ-followers? I do.

Lesson No. 2. Reading on: ^^ “But why notice the splinter in your brother’s eye without taiking notice of the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me extract that splinter from our eye,’ when there is a beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! First get rid of that beam in your eye; then you will see clearly to extract the splinter from your brother’s eye.†^^

Jesus makes absolutely clear here that He is addressing the hypocrite. He specificies exactly so with the clause, “You hypocrite!†He is not speaking to His meek, Good-Shepherd-following sheep.

Lesson No. 3. In the very next verse, Matthew 7:6, He does address His sheep, for they possess that which is “sacred,†the gospel “pearls" that He has given them. Thus He says, “Do not give what is sacred to the dogs, so that they may not turn around and attack you; neither throw your pearls before the hogs, so that they may not trample them under their feet.â€Â

Plainly and simply, Jesus commands Christians to exercise judgment. Else we would not be able to distinguish the person who is ready to hear the gospel from one who isn’t.

Yes, God wants -- and commands! -- you and me to judge others, just not hypocritically.

May the Holy Spirit free you gently from the chains of which you are unaware...

 

[cj]

You know, how sad is it that we do not take seriously that.... the LAST ADAM became the life-giving Spirit.

The Sabbath was made for men, but the last man died. Thus the Sabbath is not longer relevant.

In love,
cj

 

[guibox]

I'm going to quote for you from Acts 26 (CEV) and substitute your name's for Saul's and to make a few other appropriate substitutions.

The reason I'm doing this is to show you that you have a chance to be like Saul. He became Paul when he finally realized that the person of our God Jesus Christ actually fulfilled and replaced the old covenant law on the cross and forever substituted Himself for it, since it was only a shadow pointing to him anyway.

Here goes:

^^One day some boys, SputnikBoy,Soma-Sight and Jay T. was in Silver Spring walking from the General Conference headquarters building with the authority and permission of the SDA hierarchy. About noon they saw a light brighter than the sun. It flashed from heaven on them and on everyone traveling with them. We all fell to the ground. Then I heard a voice say to me in English, "SputnickBy, Soma-Sight and Jay T, why are you so cruel to me? It's foolish to fight against me!"

"Who are you?" they asked.

Then the Lord answered, "I am Jesus! I am the one you are so cruel to. Now stand up. I have appeared to you, because I have chosen you to be My servant's. You are to tell others what you have learned about Me and what I will show you later."

The Lord also said, "I will protect you from the Adventists and from the non-Adventists that I am sending you to. I want you to open their eyes, so that they will turn form darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then their sins will be forgiven, and by faith in Me they will become part of God's holy people."^^

What do you say, boys?

servant2000, you are amazing and brazen in your inappropriate analogy.

First of all, I don't recall Adventists going out and killing other Christians in God's name. Second, we are doing nothing against Christ at all, nor are we anti-Christian as Paul was. Shame on you for your ignorant comparison!

It is your sanctimonious and Pharisaical view of the law and the Sabbath that puts us in darkness. We understand fully the relationship between law and grace, obedience out of love and keeping God's commands as all who did before us.

If you and Heidi don't understand this relationship and see only with Pharisees' eyes, don't put that on us.

Again, shame on you and I think you need to reevaluate the way you treat people's beliefs on this forum

I for one am upset and disgusted.

 

[dcookcan]

As the Lord answered Job out of the storm. He said:

Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?

The proof is within your Bible, read it..but it doesn't make God on earth, a false Messiah, but it deffinately show's that He is God, and can whatever He wants with His written law, it's His law, He can cancell it, nail it to a cross, and fulfill it all. YES?

You are correct; it is His Law. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. (1 John 5:3 - read the whole chapter)

JESUS BROKE THE SABBATH. He broke it so that he could replace it with something better, something superior -- Himself.

A classic christian dogma that has absolutely no scriptural support. That is, unless you can twist Paul's words in just the right way.

You ask, and I shall provide then..Do you believe what the apostle John (John 5:16-18 NIV) unambiguously and unequivocally said He was doing?

^^^^^^^^^^^
Because Jesus was doing these things [working] on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I, too, am working". For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God his own Father, making Himself equal with God.
^^^^^^^^^^^

I do not argue that He broke the Spirit of the law. He Himself as God was and remains the Spirit of the law. Therefore He did not -- and indeed cannot -- break Himself.

But He did indeed break the LETTER of the law. Even if it was His own finger that was writing the letter of the law on two stone tablets on Mt. Sinai.

So what you are trying to say is that God is a hypocrite and he would force the Israelites to keep something that He Himself would not. You may be reading the words, but I don't think you are understanding what they are saying.

Data Point No. 1: As God He MIXED a clay poultice on the Sabbath (John 9:6-15). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work.â€Â

Data Point No. 2: As God He allowed His disciples to REAP wheat on the Sabbath and defended them against the Pharisees’ charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 3: As God He allowed His disciples to THRESH wheat (rub it between their hands so that the chaff fell away) on the Sabbath and defended them against the Pharisees’ charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 4: As God He commanded a man to PICK UP His sleeping mat and TRANSPORT it on the Sabbath (John 5:1-19). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Data Point No. 5: As God He allowed Peter’s mother-in-law to “WAIT ON Him†or “MINISTER UNTO Him [KJV]†on the Sabbath (Matthew 8:13-16). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.†In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt.

Because I don't have a lot of time right now, I will try to be brief. The greek word used in point #1 - working (as in Jesus and His Father), the word can mean labour, but it can also mean "to cause to exist". The crippled man did not have much of an existance prior to being healed. And it is not unlawful to do good on the Sabbath. The Law puts the life of a human (or sheep or donkey) above not working.
Point #2 & 3 - The Law does not prevent a person from eating. The corners of the crops were not harvested so that the poor could also have food. They were not reaping their crops (i.e. for a living), they were eating.
Point #4 - the Law does not prevent anyone from walking or picking up a mat or anything like that. (you are crossing the line of believing in Jewish fables my friend).
Point #5 - please tell me that you do not think it is unlawful to worship God on the Sabbath. If you do, could you please give me some scripture to back up your beliefs. I may be sinning unintentionally.

He didn't come to fulfill the law, He WAS the fulfillment of the law. That's a big difference.

Jesus' fulfilling of the law was not about keeping it perfectly. It was about His BEING the LAW. He is God. The law is inseparable from the person of God. The Jews, expected the Messiah to come. What they didn't understand (because it had been veiled in the Old Testament) was that the Messiah would actually BE GOD. When He came, He fuliflled the law. He was the God-man and every lawâ€â€including the 10â€â€pointed to. He fulfilled the law by being our Savior and our Creator and our Lord. His technical keeping or not keeping of the law was not what constituted His fulfilling it.

(Matthew 5:17-20) Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I don't know what kind of twisted faith you have, but heaven and earth are still here and my God will not be least in His own kingdom. John the baptist called Him the spotless lamb (that means without sin) who comes to take away the sins of the world. My Messiah was without sin; who is it that you actually serve?

 

[dcookcan]

Blatently twisting God's holy scriptures to make them say what you want. You've got a lot of nerve. Just remeber that the manner you judge others is the manner in which you will be judged.

You said>Blatently twisting God's holy scriptures to make them say what you want. You've got a lot of nerve.

What I did was inserted some names of some Adventist brothers, to make a point..and I do have nerve to do so...and you chimed right on in there with a misunderstanding to the reason...be careful next time..

Do you realize that if you don't judge others, you will be victimized by them?

Your under a crippling misconception there..that believers should do no judging of others at all.

This misconception is based on an unfortunate misreading of Matthew 7:1-2. Here it is (in RBV):

^^ Do not pass judgment, that you may not be judged; for the way you judge you will be judged and with what yardstick you measure you will be measured. ^^

Perhaps you should re-read my quote (left above intentionally), because that is exactly what I said. I said that you will be judged according to how you judge others (rephrased). I did not say don't judge, as that is a misuse of scripture. We are to judge others according to their fruit and the only fruit of yours that I have witnessed is to hypocritically judge others.

And where does the scripture tell us that others will victimize us if we don't judge them? I call that artistic license.

From the Sermon on Mt. Blessings I have learned three lessons:

Lesson No. 1. As the NIV Study Bible text note for this passage makes clear, Jesus means, Do not judge HYPOCRITICALLY. For if you do, then others will rightfully judge you hypocritically under Christ’s “measure for measure†MFM teaching. However, under that same MFM teaching, if you judge someone humbly and according to Scripture, then others will judge you humbly and according to Scripture. And isn’t that the way you want to be judged? Especially by other Christ-followers? I do.

In my years as a christian, I have learned that study bible text notes and commentaries are not scripture. They may provide some historical insight at times, but for the most part, they should be ignored (especially when they start talking about what Jesus was thinking or meaning). It detracts from the Holy Spirits ability to teach us. (Its not His fault - Its like putting on ear plugs.

Lesson No. 2. Reading on: ^^ “But why notice the splinter in your brother’s eye without taiking notice of the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me extract that splinter from our eye,’ when there is a beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! First get rid of that beam in your eye; then you will see clearly to extract the splinter from your brother’s eye.†^^

Jesus makes absolutely clear here that He is addressing the hypocrite. He specificies exactly so with the clause, “You hypocrite!†He is not speaking to His meek, Good-Shepherd-following sheep.

Lesson No. 3. In the very next verse, Matthew 7:6, He does address His sheep, for they possess that which is “sacred,†the gospel “pearls" that He has given them. Thus He says, “Do not give what is sacred to the dogs, so that they may not turn around and attack you; neither throw your pearls before the hogs, so that they may not trample them under their feet.â€Â

Plainly and simply, Jesus commands Christians to exercise judgment. Else we would not be able to distinguish the person who is ready to hear the gospel from one who isn’t.

Yes, God wants -- and commands! -- you and me to judge others, just not hypocritically.

May the Holy Spirit free you gently from the chains of which you are unaware...

You certainly seem to be doing a good job of digging yourself a rabbit hole. I will close by quoting myself:

There are none so deceived than those who believe they cannot be.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Any scriptural proof that Jesus kept the Sabbath?

Seriously, can you provide scriptural support for your assertion? I can show you several places where Jesus violated the Sabbath--intentionally.

Your kidding right?

Your pride in following man made traditions goes to the point of calling Christ imPerfect by His own standards...

You claim that Christ kept not the Law in full.

Thats pretty awesome man... I wonder if you realize the full import of what you just posted...?

What next was Christ a wine drinking hippy that may have murdered a few people? Or maybe He slept with Mary Magdalene?

I dont understand how liberals like you can really believe these things come from the Bible....?

Come on dude I know you know better than that claim....

 

[Soma-Sight]

Servant 2000,

So was Christ under Grace like us at His time on earth?

If He broke the Sabbath as you claim he better be under Grace!

You and I both know that He broke the MAN MADE PARADIGMS of what the Sabbath was being taught by the leaders as being.....

He kept the Sabbath as according to His Perfect Law and not man's.

I know you know this.....!!!!

 

[Vic C.]

...Because I don't have a lot of time right now, I will try to be brief. The greek word used in point #1 - working (as in Jesus and His Father), the word can mean labour, but it can also mean "to cause to exist". The crippled man did not have much of an existance prior to being healed. And it is not unlawful to do good on the Sabbath. The Law puts the life of a human (or sheep or donkey) above not working.
Point #2 & 3 - The Law does not prevent a person from eating. The corners of the crops were not harvested so that the poor could also have food. They were not reaping their crops (i.e. for a living), they were eating.
Point #4 - the Law does not prevent anyone from walking or picking up a mat or anything like that. (you are crossing the line of believing in Jewish fables my friend).
Point #5 - please tell me that you do not think it is unlawful to worship God on the Sabbath. If you do, could you please give me some scripture to back up your beliefs. I may be sinning unintentionally....

Good job. Very nice. :angel:

 

[Jay T]

Jay T., do you even know what "saved by Ggace" means? :o

"God's unmerited favor towards man, as the divine influence operating in man, by God's Spirit, to the renewing of the heart and restraining man from committing sin".
Want Bible verses to back that up with ?
Here goes.....
Ephessians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast".
NOW....don't miss the very next verse !!!!
Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto [good works], which God hath before [ordained] that we [should walk] in them".

Need another Bible definition of what Grace is for ?
Romans 1:5 "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for [obedience] to the faith among all nations, for his name"
Grace given for...obedience ?


And, did you know that grace, is also given to teach us.....what ?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
2:12 TEACHING US ...that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD"

 

[SputnikBoy]

servant_2000: . . .I'm doing this is to show you that you have a chance to be like Saul. He became Paul when he finally realized that the person of our God Jesus Christ actually fulfilled and replaced the old covenant law on the cross and forever substituted Himself for it, since it was only a shadow pointing to him anyway.

Sputnik: You are absolutely correct, servant. Only problem is that you're trying to rid us of the wrong law. Christ DID fulfill and replace the old covenant law. He became the human sacrifice. The ramifications behind this act of Jesus are what Paul is at such pains to get across to those who couldn't grasp it. He would be blue in the face today tring to do the same thing with mainstream Christians! We need to transport our minds back to the time of Paul in order to figure it out for ourselves.

What was Paul trying to get across? Was he frustrated because some (even many) WERE being obedient to God? WERE not killing? WERE not stealing? WERE not committing adultery? WERE honoring their parents? No, no, of course he wasn't. Paul was trying to get across to the some (even the many) that the laws contained in the ordinances were no longer necessary since Jesus had fulfilled them at the cross. The lambs, the bulls, the rams are gone. From now on it's the blood of Jesus that saves us. The laws contained in the ordinances that were merely shadows that pointed to the Messiah are now totally unnecessary.

And THAT began the New Covenant which STILL contained the Laws (commands) pertaining to God and our fellow humans. Those commands were never and COULD never be abolished. Why are we even arguing for or against keeping them? Our Christian walk hinges on our obedience to those commands which we keep through faith in Jesus Christ. If and when we fall (as we all do) it's the blood of Jesus (not the blood of animals) that covers us. The two greatest commandments pertaining to God (1-4) and those pertaining to our neighbor (5-10) are surely the Ten that only the foolhardy would want to scrap.

 

[Jay T]

The two greatest commandments pertaining to God (1-4) and those pertaining to our neighbor (5-10) are surely the Ten that only the foolhardy would want to scrap.

Foolhardy...or maybe, the UNconverted person ?

Notice this Bible verse......
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be".

 

[cj]

The two greatest commandments pertaining to God (1-4) and those pertaining to our neighbor (5-10) are surely the Ten that only the foolhardy would want to scrap.

Foolhardy...or maybe, the UNconverted person ?

Notice this Bible verse......
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be".

And do you think your mind is not carnal in any aspect?

Are you really of the opinion that only unconverted persons have a carnal mind?

You sadly fool yourself if you do JayT, for neither you nor I have yet been perfected in our soul, of which the mind is a part. And if unperfected, then as carnal as the day we were born.

In love,
cj

 

[Servant_2000]

I'm going to quote for you from Acts 26 (CEV) and substitute your name's for Saul's and to make a few other appropriate substitutions.

The reason I'm doing this is to show you that you have a chance to be like Saul. He became Paul when he finally realized that the person of our God Jesus Christ actually fulfilled and replaced the old covenant law on the cross and forever substituted Himself for it, since it was only a shadow pointing to him anyway.

Here goes:

^^One day some boys, SputnikBoy,Soma-Sight and Jay T. was in Silver Spring walking from the General Conference headquarters building with the authority and permission of the SDA hierarchy. About noon they saw a light brighter than the sun. It flashed from heaven on them and on everyone traveling with them. We all fell to the ground. Then I heard a voice say to me in English, "SputnickBy, Soma-Sight and Jay T, why are you so cruel to me? It's foolish to fight against me!"

"Who are you?" they asked.

Then the Lord answered, "I am Jesus! I am the one you are so cruel to. Now stand up. I have appeared to you, because I have chosen you to be My servant's. You are to tell others what you have learned about Me and what I will show you later."

The Lord also said, "I will protect you from the Adventists and from the non-Adventists that I am sending you to. I want you to open their eyes, so that they will turn form darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then their sins will be forgiven, and by faith in Me they will become part of God's holy people."^^

What do you say, boys?

servant2000, you are amazing and brazen in your inappropriate analogy.

First of all, I don't recall Adventists going out and killing other Christians in God's name. Second, we are doing nothing against Christ at all, nor are we anti-Christian as Paul was. Shame on you for your ignorant comparison!

It is your sanctimonious and Pharisaical view of the law and the Sabbath that puts us in darkness. We understand fully the relationship between law and grace, obedience out of love and keeping God's commands as all who did before us.

If you and Heidi don't understand this relationship and see only with Pharisees' eyes, don't put that on us.

Again, shame on you and I think you need to reevaluate the way you treat people's beliefs on this forum

I for one am upset and disgusted.

Woops forgot about you guibox...should have added you to the list.

For one I didn't mention anything about Adventist going out and killing other christians, them's your words..and guess what, no twisting of a sort.
Secondly I didn't know that Paul the Apostle was anti-Christian.

I'd be upset and disgusted too if I found out that I was in a false religion, such as Seventh Day Adventism.

Must be the Holy Spirit pricking your heart.

May God be with you.

 

[Servant_2000]

You are correct; it is His Law. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. (1 John 5:3 - read the whole chapter)

What exactly are God's commandments that you quote from 1 John?? Answer: They are the commandments of Jesus Christ our God. And nowhere among them will be found, for instance, the Fourth Commandment of Exodus 20. It was only a long shadow on the desert floor of legalism pointing to Christ hanging on the cross. When following this shadow we found Christ we saw that this commandment, along with all the rest of the 613, had been nailed to Christ's cross.

And in place of the 613 is Jesus Christ Himself alone, the fulfillment of the law: His birth, life, teachings (including all the commandments you will ever need in this life), death, resurrection and ascension.

A classic christian dogma that has absolutely no scriptural support. That is, unless you can twist Paul's words in just the right way

In order to make that claim you have to deny John 5:16-18

And it not I, it is John the beloved Apostle's words,

^^^^^^^^^^^
Because Jesus was doing these things [working] on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I, too, am working". For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God his own Father, making Himself equal with God.
^^^^^^^^^^^

So what you are trying to say is that God is a hypocrite and he would force the Israelites to keep something that He Himself would not. You may be reading the words, but I don't think you are understanding what they are saying.

I just believe the face value of the Bible...

Because I don't have a lot of time right now, I will try to be brief. The greek word used in point #1 - working (as in Jesus and His Father), the word can mean labour, but it can also mean "to cause to exist". The crippled man did not have much of an existance prior to being healed. And it is not unlawful to do good on the Sabbath. The Law puts the life of a human (or sheep or donkey) above not working.
Point #2 & 3 - The Law does not prevent a person from eating. The corners of the crops were not harvested so that the poor could also have food. They were not reaping their crops (i.e. for a living), they were eating.
Point #4 - the Law does not prevent anyone from walking or picking up a mat or anything like that. (you are crossing the line of believing in Jewish fables my friend).
Point #5 - please tell me that you do not think it is unlawful to worship God on the Sabbath. If you do, could you please give me some scripture to back up your beliefs. I may be sinning unintentionally.

When you get time I'd be willing to go over this with you then...if we both have time...kind of busy here...

(Matthew 5:17-20) Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I don't know what kind of twisted faith you have, but heaven and earth are still here and my God will not be least in His own kingdom. John the baptist called Him the spotless lamb (that means without sin) who comes to take away the sins of the world. My Messiah was without sin; who is it that you actually serve?

Come on DC your starting to toss them right across the plate to hit home runs with. And I mean those big fat slow ones.

However, you forgot the best part -- the context! Let me quote it for you in its context:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

How true that is. For not one jot nor one tittle did pass away TILL ALL WAS FULFILLED.

And all WAS fulfilled! Jesus fulfilled all there was to be fulfilled -- and that was ALL of it. For when Jesus was hanging on the cross He said, "It is finished!" Meaning that "all was fulfilled"!

The Law of Moses was finsihed and replaced by the Law of Jesus. It was finished in the sense that Jesus Christ fulfilled it right down to the last jot and tittle and therefore "everything is accomplished."

Everything! The whole enchilada. Including the Ten Commandments! Including the Fourth Commandment! Including the Sabbath Commandment!

Time to get on board the gospel train, my friend!

Not under the Law, but under grace,

 

[Servant_2000]

my Adventist friends seem to be accusing me of Antinomianism, even from your silence.

What does this term mean what are they accusing me of.

Antinomianism comes from the combination of two Greek words, the first word is "Anti" which mean against or in opposition to, and the second word is Nomos, which most of us Christians know, and it means Law. So the word means against or opposed to Law.

Now let us put down the facts out to see who is really the Antinomian.

Adventist - say some Christians, such as I, that we are antinomian because we do not keep the Sabbath they way you Adventist do. They say we are against Gods command's at Mt Siani (some say at creation) that we should keep the Seventh day.

I feel that Adventist are the Antinomina because you do not keep God"s command's. Adventist will say which commands are we not keeping?


The words of Paul and the apostles and Jesus are commandments.

1 Corinthians 14:37 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Now that we know that these words that we find in the New testament are commandments let us look at what the commandments are.

New Covenant Commandment = Colossians 2:16 16
¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

Well you judge me because of what I eat and drink and because of my Day of worship which is every Day, they say I can not give all days of the week to Him (My perpetual Sabbath).

Here you are breaking 3 commandments.

Her is another New Covenant Commandment that you break.

Galatians 4:23-24 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.
------------
So what is the covenant at Mount Sinai (or Horeb).?

Deut 4:10-13 10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb (Mt Siani), when the LORD said unto Me, Gather Me the people together, and I will make them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.........13) And He declared unto you His covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and He wrote them upon two tables of stone.

So the Covenant at Horeb or Mt Siani is the Ten Commandments
------------
Galatians 4:25 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--

NOW HERE IS THE COMMANDMENT.

Galatians 4:30 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

So the Command is cast out the bondwoman. Well it says she is Hagar which represents the Covenant at Mount Siani which is the Ten Commandments and all the Book of the Law, and it says we are to CAST OUT the Old Covenant as well as the son. And who is the son? It is Ishmael who is the son of Abraham's WORKS as well as our WORKS. Now even the Adventist know that they do not get rid of the people and teachers in the Church who teach works and legalism. So I see it that it is Adventist who are the Antinomian and not me.

Here is another Commandment that you Break both in the Book of the Law and in the New Covenant and that is to Love your Neighbor as your self or as Jesus did. Do you Adventist Love your fellow Christians and Catholic friends or do you say we are Babylon with 666 on our forheads and hands. Do you Love us even though we see the Sabbath differently then you do.