A Modern Heresy within Christianity: sola scriptura

[Orthodoxy]

The scriptures state that all have sinned. That includes Mary.

I do not condemn the Mary of the bible. Only the false goddess of Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

Lets not forget that biblical figure Jesus as a dishonoring man that shunned and dishonored His Mother. Really Robert does all men really mean all men? Jesus was fully man, fully.

[quote:e895d]When a person relies upon the bible and not the "traditions of men" then the confusion produced by apostate churches is made void...

From the following web site...

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. ("Catechism" 490-492).

In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour". Mary knew that she needed a savior.

Yes. if you would have read my post I said that. Robert again your broad brush is painting the Orthodox Church as Roman Catholic. Speak to me as an Orthodox Christian in your condemnations for I am not Roman Catholic and do not hold the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION Dogma that you accuse me of holding. Mary died. The wages of sin is death. Mary was a sinner in need of a savior. Her parents were sinners. For Mary to be immaculately concieved then her parents would also need to be immaculately concieved all the way back to Adam. So you see your broad brush tactics are nothing more than insults and harrassment. Another TOS violation by a moderator.

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first introduced by a heretic (a man whose teachings were officially declared to be contrary to Church doctrine). For centuries this doctrine was unanimously rejected by popes, Fathers and theologians of the Catholic Church. (Note 13)

ALL-HOLY -- Mary, "the All-Holy," lived a perfectly sinless life. ("Catechism" 411, 493)

The Orthodox Church rejects this notion. Your lack of education of the Christian faith is disgraceful. Please Robert stop accusing the Orthodox Church of things we do not believe. Is that mis quoting the Orthodox Church? YES another TOS violation by a moderator! These attacks will be reported unless they cease, Robert, with all due respect.

Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". Revelation 15:4 says, "Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou only art holy". Romans 3:10 says, "There is none righteous, no, not one".

Jesus the sinner man for dishonoring mom. Really Robert think about this. Let us reason in a calm and intellegent manner and not spread broad accusations and misinformation. Is that another TOS offense spreading false information about the Orthodox Church?

Jesus is the only person who is referred to in Scripture as sinless.

[/quote:e895d]

So all doesnt include Jesus. Good. So Jesus did not dishonor His mother saying "who is my mother?" He was accually commending MAry to the Church has mother of us all because Mary did the will of God in this statement:

Luke 1:38, And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

It is you that demands we submit and obey the "word" of God, correct? Mary doing the will of God thus she is "the Mother" of the Church.

Ya know if you talked about my earthy mother like you talk about my spiritual mother to my face .... you might find your self at the end of a fist. Really who would allow this disrespectful and out landish display in real life. I would love to meet you on the street some day and you say some of the things you say here about my spiritual mother. Truely the internet brings forth the worst in a man's heart. Shame on you, Robert.

For shame sake stop making a fool of yourself, Robert.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

I am #1 harrassed in that Robert continues to broad brush paint the Orthodox Church with his hate toward Mary and the Roman Catholics.

I am #2 insulted that he continues to imply all catholics are pagans and decievers.

I am #3 offended and insulted by Robert with his accusations that the pope is "anti Christ".

This breaks rules:

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, BELITTLE, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Rule 6 - No Trolling:
You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site). You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

Hypocrasy? Oh yea.

Your Unworthy Servant

Kyril

Orthodoxy, your hypocrisy astounds me.

First, I don't see you trying one iota to tame your flaming tongue as you have so violently and rudely lashed out with on a continual basis. And yet when the mods or someone else try to correct you, well...it's not your fault!! And yet you expect the mods to come running to your aid when you PERCEIVE flaming to happen to you.

That's called being a bully. I see it all the time in my classrooms. We send those children to the principal's office.

Second, I in no way called you or Catholic's pagans so quit jumping to conclusions. I said that seeing as pagan religions write their beliefs down so their followers can follow it, their gods must have more sympathy for their followers then the Christian one if what you say is true.

Read the posts and quit practicing your hypocrisy.

Anybody, friend or foe, (and I don't consider myself a foe of yours) can see that you are way out of line most of the time and too caught up in your selfishness to admit your mistakes.

Instead you play the blame game with everyone else.

I guess when the mods decide to finally ban you, it will be everyone else's fault?

Please cool your jets and be mature. It will help everyone else and will endear you to those you've insulted on this forum instead of repelling them

in love

guibox

Rule 3 - Personel conflicts:
If you have personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. If the problem cannot be handled through private messages, then Report problems to Mods or Admins ASAP.

Please stay on topic and stop violating the TOS or this will be reported.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Orthodoxy

 

[bibleberean]

Quibox, I wrote CJ by mistake...

Please keep the threads off personal conflicts.

Orthodoxy,

Attacking institutions and doctrines is not a violation of the TOS.

Personal attacks are a violation...

We can resolve personal conflicts through PM.

Thanks,

Robert

 

[JM]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

 

[bibleberean]

The bible should be the final authority for faith and practice.

Jesus did not point people to the Jewish leadership but the scriptures...

Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Jesus rebuked His own for not believing the scriptures

Luke 24:25-26 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mark 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

The bible refutes Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

What did Jesus say about the traditions of men?

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

We should not pray to paintings or statues or look for miracles to come through them...

Sola scriptura....

 

[thessalonian]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

Martin Luther had 100,000 sons of the reformation slaughtered by the German government. Public Television. The Calvinists murdered 19 priests and nuns in switzerland. Many of the KKK in the south were Baptists and other denominations, justifying their biggotry and racism with scripture. Ah yes, Sola Scriptura, ain't it grand.

 

[bibleberean]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

Martin Luther had 100,000 sons of the reformation slaughtered by the German government. Public Television. The Calvinists murdered 19 priests and nuns in switzerland. Many of the KKK in the south were Baptists and other denominations, justifying their biggotry and racism with scripture. Ah yes, Sola Scriptura, ain't it grand.

Shame on Martin Luther, John Calvin and the KKK.

That is why I am Sola Scriptura and not Catholic, Luthern or a follower of John Calvin.

I base my doctrines on the bible.

I don't care what the "church fathers" taught only what is written.

Sola Scriptura.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

I can't find Luther or Calvin in my bible. I cannot find the murderous Popes or the idol worship they promote. No rosary beads, Mary as the "Queen of all things" etc.

Sola Scriptura is grand. All else falls short... ;-)

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Standing on God's word...

Robert

 

[guibox]

Martin Luther had 100,000 sons of the reformation slaughtered by the German government. Public Television. The Calvinists murdered 19 priests and nuns in switzerland. Many of the KKK in the south were Baptists and other denominations, justifying their biggotry and racism with scripture. Ah yes, Sola Scriptura, ain't it grand.

So how is the church twisting and dictating version of the scriptures to the ignorant people and justifying their slaughtering of millions of people they deemed 'heretics' a better and acceptable alternative to turn to?

It's worse then 'sola scriptura' it's 'sola church-ura' mentality!

 

[stray bullet]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

Martin Luther had 100,000 sons of the reformation slaughtered by the German government. Public Television. The Calvinists murdered 19 priests and nuns in switzerland. Many of the KKK in the south were Baptists and other denominations, justifying their biggotry and racism with scripture. Ah yes, Sola Scriptura, ain't it grand.

Shame on Martin Luther, John Calvin and the KKK.

That is why I am Sola Scriptura and not Catholic, Luthern or a follower of John Calvin.

I base my doctrines on the bible.

I don't care what the "church fathers" taught only what is written.

Sola Scriptura.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

I can't find Luther or Calvin in my bible. I cannot find the murderous Popes or the idol worship they promote. No rosary beads, Mary as the "Queen of all things" etc.

Sola Scriptura is grand. All else falls short... ;-)

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Standing on God's word...

Robert

There is NOTHING in those verses that suggests or even remotely implies sola scriptura, "by scripture alone".

 

[stray bullet]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

Congrats on admitting to being unable to defend sola scriptura and resorting to attacking the Orthodox Church instead.

 

[stray bullet]

The bible should be the final authority for faith and practice.

Jesus did not point people to the Jewish leadership but the scriptures...

Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Jesus rebuked His own for not believing the scriptures

Luke 24:25-26 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mark 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

The bible refutes Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

What did Jesus say about the traditions of men?

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

We should not pray to paintings or statues or look for miracles to come through them...

Sola scriptura....

He was speaking of the traditions of men, not Holy Tradition which is of God.

None of these verses suggest sola scriptura, all you said was "it is written"- the fact stuff was written doesn't even begin to suggest "by scripture alone".

You follow the traditions of men, you follow sola scriptura which I already showed was made up by men, any history book or encyclipedia PROVES that.

You blatantly contradict the bible and then prove that by quoting the very verses that tell you not to do what you are doing- following the traditions of men.

 

[stray bullet]

Rome teaches the unbiblical doctrine that Mary was sinless.

How do we know this doctrine is false?

Is this the best you can do, you can't even address the topic so you go on about Mary being sinless?

 

[bibleberean]

There is nothing in the scriptures to support the false teachings of the RCC.

There are thousands of scriptural reasons to reject Rome and her idolatrous teachings and practices...

UNAM SANCTAM

Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302


"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Contrast this with the true gospel. Notice that being subject to the tyrant of Rome is not part of what saves us.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Does anyone see the Pope's name mentioned in the following verses?

Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME OF JESUS, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER: FOR THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.

It is not necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Pope is an anti-christ!

The bible refutes the claims of these antichrists. Sola Scriptura!

 

[bibleberean]

Rome teaches the unbiblical doctrine that Mary was sinless.

How do we know this doctrine is false?

Is this the best you can do, you can't even address the topic so you go on about Mary being sinless?

The topic was addressed... You deliberately left out the next line... :roll:

Rome teaches the unbiblical doctrine that Mary was sinless.

How do we know this doctrine is false?

The scriptures! :-D

Sola Scriptura! :angel:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The Orthodox in Russia aka 'third Rome' burned themselves in protest against liturgical changes being made that were meant to bring them closer to the Greek Liturgy. It may have been over a 100 years ago, but 20,000 people died by burning themselves and the suicides continued up until the 1850's. "The Last Days are Here Again" Baker Book House pg. 69 - 70

I'll take my Sola Scriptura over this, any day.

Jason, Jason, always looking for a chance to smear the Orthodox...
In point of fact, you are referring to the Old Believers, a schismatic sect NOT to be confused with Russian Orthodox.

The group most closely associated with this immolation practice were the Bespopovstky (priestless) who were not only priestless, but without Bishops.

A schismatic sect that rejects authority and leadership, how is that different than sola scriptura?

Despite the fact that the Old Believers movement was created as an 'answer' for a reform, not as a 'reform' itself, the views and the philosophy of the movement in some aspects strongly resembles the protestant philosophy (mainly Amish, Hutterites, Mennonites and some other 'strict' denominations). That makes some people argue that Old Belivers appearance can be treated as a part of the pan-European Reformation processes. The similarities between Old Believers and Protestants are the following:

Both Old Believers and early Protestans positioned themselves as an alternative for the official church.
Since Old Believers treated mainstream Orthodox church as a heretical church, they rather quickly developed a feeling of themselves as the only confession that can provide salvation to its adepts. This feeling later was transformed to a practical philosophy and theology very similar to that of Calvinistic theory of being determined in advance; especially the doctrine that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity However, predestination never was proclamed officially among the Old Believers.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/o/ol/old_believers.htm
A non-Orthodox link which compares Old Believers to Protestants.
How 'bout that.

Oh yes, the immolation thing. Well, the number 20,000 may as well have been pulled out of a hat. No one knows how many of these Jim Jonesers did themselves in, but it wasn't 20,000- doubtful it was 2000.

But I bet you knew all this already, Jason, but were willing to smear and slander while being inaccurate. Some call that lying.

Suicide is in clear violation of the scriptures- the Orthodox Church has always condemned the act on that basis.

 

[lovely]

Dear brothers,

I am not one of the moderators here in Apologetics. I have read through here, and I wanted to give you all a reminder.

It is okay for us to disagree and challenge each other...in fact, I think it is good that we have discussions about God's Word, and the teachings of our various churches. When we are seeking the Truth from God, and willing to listen to others who may be used to reveal it, we can grow. And, well, that is a blessing. "Iron sharpeneth iron." I praise God for that process. I understand debate, but I do not understand any lack of love in those who have been given a great mercy by God.

When we are bickering, no one is hearing. I am not asking anyone to accept a doctrine that they believe is false. I am saying please let's not be arrogant, poor listeners, intent on thinking the worst of others, one who engages in personal attacks of others, and someone who is deliberately insulting. I beleive the men in this thread know when they are doing these things, and I would ask them to search their hearts intentions.

I wonder if it is profitable to continue on with this topic, in this thread?

I apologize if this post offends anyone, that is not my intent. As a moderator, I am asking that we seek to honor God, and His Word, at this site. As a sister, I am hoping to encourage you all to be just like our Saviour. If we offend a brother, or sister, we should say we are sorry. If we are over-sensitive when someone disagrees with us, we should also apologize.

Please, lets all speak the Truth, in love. If you feel a brother, or sister, is in error; Then, yes, give them a Word of Truth, and do not water it down. But shouldn't we be doing it, meekly, and in love? Isn't the Truth of God, and His Word, enough? We do not have to be arrogant, condescending, quick to think ill of others, or just plain insulting to add emphesis to God's teachings...it actually distracts from them. The Truth, given in humility, and in genuine love...that is boldness, and power.

The Lord bless you all.

 

[Wildfowler]

There is NOTHING in those verses that suggests or even remotely implies sola scriptura, "by scripture alone".

Wouldn't this verse tell us that the very same traditions are available to us throughout the Bible, based on 2 Thess 15:

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2thessalonians/2thessalonians2.htm



How does this verse tell us that we can actually learn the traditions that we are instructed to hold fast to? It says very clearly that we can learn them by:

EITHER

1. An oral statement

OR

2. By a letter or ours.

If I don't have access to the oral statement anymore, I will have no choice but to look through the scripture for the same information according to this verse.

 

[AVBunyan]

Can't see it

Mind if I join in? Thank ye kindly -

There appears to be a problem here - the issue is final authority. The question is:

What is your FINAL authority?

I've visited this forum off and on now for 3 years or so.
Some observations:

I will seek to be nice so as not to violate any rules or hurt anybody's feelings here.

1. It appears that most of you have no final authority.

2. It appears that most of you don't want a final authority. This way you are accountable to no one but your selves.

3. It appears that most of you will never have a fiinal authority.

4. It appears that most of you have rejected the book that God has used for the past 400 years and have replaced it with Rome and Roman bibles (all modern versions are based upon Roman manuscripts) which have never been responsible for any rivival anywhere at anytime and never will. Wherever Rome goes the lights go out and darkness sets in. Just look at the nations where Rome is in authority. Don't shake your fist at me just check out history!

5. Most of the logic presented here on this thread and others like it are as confusing as a termite in a yoyo - interpretation? You are going round and round without a clue of where you are going or have been.

6. It appears that many of you will never see the truth of scripture and what scripture says about itself because God has not opened your eyes to this simple but vital truth -
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The battle ground has always been always will be until the Lord comes back is.... who is going to run things and by what authority?


I believe God runs things and he gave us his word on it - God's word is found in a King James Bible that can found at any Walmart for $5.95.


Now, I know that most of you folks don't believe that. All your manuscripts, Greek/Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls, college professors, logic, "so called errors" in an AV1611 don't keep me awake enough to yawn.

Go ahead and correct God's word so you can show how smart you are - just remember - Prov 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

God knows your heart and motive for what and why you do what you do. And when you kick out the book that God has used for the past 400 years and all those Bibles prior that were based upon the texts the AV1611 came from then you do it at the risk of damning your soul and the souls of others you are seeking to turn from God's final authority. God's word says, Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If you don't have God's word then you can't get faith - is that simple enough?

Now - my hand is sore and I know you didn't enjoy this but tough apples.

For those of you who defend scripture - then amen to you!

For those of you who seek to cast doubts on scripture - then I wouldn't want to be in your shoes at the great white throne.

I know most of you think this kind of talk is unchristian and not "sweet" but some of us grow weary with people who cast doubts on the word of God.

The first recorded thing the devil said on earth was:
Gen 3:1 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The devil questioned what God said and we've been in a mess ever since - some of you folks are doing the work of the devil - you are questioning what God said and causing others to doubt what God said.

Ya'll have a nice day. :-?

 

[thessalonian]

Martin Luther had 100,000 sons of the reformation slaughtered by the German government. Public Television. The Calvinists murdered 19 priests and nuns in switzerland. Many of the KKK in the south were Baptists and other denominations, justifying their biggotry and racism with scripture. Ah yes, Sola Scriptura, ain't it grand.

So how is the church twisting and dictating version of the scriptures to the ignorant people and justifying their slaughtering of millions of people they deemed 'heretics' a better and acceptable alternative to turn to?

It's worse then 'sola scriptura' it's 'sola church-ura' mentality!

Oh, twisting and dictating is much better. ;-) . The point of my post is that such arguements are red herrings. Now how is a system that has created thousands upon tens of thousands of denominations since it's inception better. Now we're getting in to a logical arguement since scripture itself says that division is not of God. 99% of all Churches (including the non-denonminational denomination have their roots in the reformation and sola scriptura. That's a simple fact. Do you suppose that all of these Churches came about because they agreed on what scripture says and did not contradict eachother. Or perhaps the response when a pastor wanted to start his own Church along with half the congregation who agreed with him was "don't let the door hit ya in the posterier end on the way out the door"? My guess the latter. Divsion and contradiction is not of God so somebody's doing some twisting in Protestantism, no doudt. Of course that is continually swept under the rug in these discussions. Each man is his own little Pope, deciding for himself what is true in this Protestant system. The scriptures tell us the Church is the pillar and support of the truth not every individual who is trusting in his own understanding.

Blessings

 

[Judy]

Amen! Thanks AVBunyan :wink: