A Modern Heresy within Christianity: sola scriptura

[Orthodoxy]

God's glory was in the temple in Jerusalem. He does not place his glory in statues or paintings of Mary...

And,

I have been nothing but respectful.

If you are offended by scripture and attacks against false doctrine I cannot help that.

No I am offended at your attempt to put the Orthodox in your roman catholic box. Your hate oozes from every word. It is obvious but not unexpected because for 33 years I hated romans and mary just like you. What I repent of is a mind like your for 33 years. ICK!

Bowing to a building is now allowed in the protestant reformation. Thanks for clearing that up. :-D

Do you also pledge alliegence to a flag? Do you kiss the flag and bow to it also after you pledge your alligence to an icon of America?

Just answer the question Robert. Do you pledge alligence to the flag of the United States of America?

Orthodoxy

 

[AVBunyan]

Welcome

Amen! Thanks AVBunyan :wink:

You are more than welcome Judy - I don't get much anymore but have always enjoying chatting with you and reading your posts.

May God richy bless 8-)

 

[Orthodoxy]

I am #1 harrassed in that Robert continues to broad brush paint the Orthodox Church with his hate toward Mary and the Roman Catholics.

I am #2 insulted that he continues to imply all catholics are pagans and decievers.

I am #3 offended and insulted by Robert with his accusations that the pope is "anti Christ".

This breaks rules:

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, BELITTLE, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Rule 6 - No Trolling:
You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site). You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

Hypocrasy? Oh yea.

Your Unworthy Servant

Kyril

Orthodoxy, your hypocrisy astounds me.

First, I don't see you trying one iota to tame your flaming tongue as you have so violently and rudely lashed out with on a continual basis. And yet when the mods or someone else try to correct you, well...it's not your fault!! And yet you expect the mods to come running to your aid when you PERCEIVE flaming to happen to you.

That's called being a bully. I see it all the time in my classrooms. We send those children to the principal's office.

Second, I in no way called you or Catholic's pagans so quit jumping to conclusions. I said that seeing as pagan religions write their beliefs down so their followers can follow it, their gods must have more sympathy for their followers then the Christian one if what you say is true.

Read the posts and quit practicing your hypocrisy.

Anybody, friend or foe, (and I don't consider myself a foe of yours) can see that you are way out of line most of the time and too caught up in your selfishness to admit your mistakes.

Instead you play the blame game with everyone else.

I guess when the mods decide to finally ban you, it will be everyone else's fault?

Please cool your jets and be mature. It will help everyone else and will endear you to those you've insulted on this forum instead of repelling them

in love

guibox

You got a problem with me put it in a PM other wise follow the rules.

Thanks

Orthodoxy

 

[Vic C.]

Well said, AV. It's one thing to have different views or interpretations of scripture and verses; it can add to a healthy debate sometimes, but to add or change God's word... :-?

Now, on with the show...

I concur fully: What does Robert's oft-used post, #6 of a collection of 13, have to do with the issue of sola scriptura?

Could someone please moderate this discussion and keep it on track?

TIA

Yes, the topic is Sola Scriptura. I don't see where BB went off topic. I see where he states several verses (a.k.a - scripture) condemning a certain practice. It would be wise to let Scripture dictate doctrine, not formulate doctrine and try and shoehorn some scripture into it just to make it seem like it works.

Interesting that I see many of the ones who are crying 'off-topic' are the ones going off topic the most. That's NOT to say they are the ONLY ones doing it.

Again, lets address the topic at hand and refrain from personal insults. We don't want this thread to suffer the wrath of the

, do we?

Thanks you.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Re: Can't see it

Mind if I join in? Thank ye kindly -

There appears to be a problem here - the issue is final authority. The question is:

What is your FINAL authority?

The Church as Jesus stated in Matthew 18. Note Jesus said after all attempts to reconcile a brother back to the faith "tell it to the Church" if they will not hear the Church then treat that brother as a heathen or publican. Do you deny this chapter and the words of Jesus?

[quote:87139]I've visited this forum off and on now for 3 years or so.
Some observations:

I will seek to be nice so as not to violate any rules or hurt anybody's feelings here.

That would be nice.

1. It appears that most of you have no final authority.

A blanket observation. I think the protestant fit this box but not the Orthodox Christians on the site. My final authority is the Church and I obey and submit to those that rule over me as commanded by the Scripture. It is those that reject authority of Jesus Christ appointments that use a book as ordained authority.

2. It appears that most of you don't want a final authority. This way you are accountable to no one but your selves.

Here again you must be speaking of the Protestant Rebellion and not the Orthodox Christians on the board. Your box is not one we fit in.

3. It appears that most of you will never have a fiinal authority.

Another blanket statement that tries to cover the Orthodox Christians in the forum with unfounded accusations. I thought you were going to be nice?

4. It appears that most of you have rejected the book that God has used for the past 400 years and have replaced it with Rome and Roman bibles (all modern versions are based upon Roman manuscripts) which have never been responsible for any rivival anywhere at anytime and never will. Wherever Rome goes the lights go out and darkness sets in. Just look at the nations where Rome is in authority. Don't shake your fist at me just check out history!

'

History? really? Do you know what came before 1000 ad? Tell me where in the bible did Jesus Christ say "I chose this book and I ordain this book" and "as my Father sent me I send this book". Tell me where Jesus gave all authority of His Father to a book?

5. Most of the logic presented here on this thread and others like it are as confusing as a termite in a yoyo - interpretation? You are going round and round without a clue of where you are going or have been.

Nice, termites eh?

6. It appears that many of you will never see the truth of scripture and what scripture says about itself because God has not opened your eyes to this simple but vital truth -
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yea the Orthodox Holy Spirit is to stupid to lead and guide the Church so He appointed you to striaghten us all out. Pride? you bet.

The battle ground has always been always will be until the Lord comes back is.... who is going to run things and by what authority?

Jesus put men of the Church in charge. Again show me where Jesus ordained and appointed a book authority over a Christians life. One verse please where the Lord Jesus Christ, your claimed savior, put a book in charge.

I believe God runs things and he gave us his word on it - God's word is found in a King James Bible that can found at any Walmart for $5.95.

And every heretic can get one and manipulate it how ever they want to prove they are "authority" because they have a "book under their arm". Please. Every false teacher I know uses the bible.

Now, I know that most of you folks don't believe that. All your manuscripts, Greek/Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls, college professors, logic, "so called errors" in an AV1611 don't keep me awake enough to yawn.

I believe you lied when you said you would be nice.

Go ahead and correct God's word so you can show how smart you are - just remember - Prov 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

It is not the bible that is the problem. It is those that read it then use it as a tool of witchcraft to manipulate people to think there way and not the way of Jesus Christ and His Church.

God knows your heart and motive for what and why you do what you do. And when you kick out the book that God has used for the past 400 years and all those Bibles prior that were based upon the texts the AV1611 came from then you do it at the risk of damning your soul and the souls of others you are seeking to turn from God's final authority. God's word says, Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

There you have it. Your history knowledge goes back 400 years to an adulterous king. That pretty much answers where you are coming from, an adulterous king of england. 2000 years of Christian history or 400 years of bible history ummm that is a tough one it appears for many.

If you don't have God's word then you can't get faith - is that simple enough?

Faith comes by hearing the word of God not reading it. Are you telling me those first 600 years where most people could not read had no faith? All the people that confessed Jesus Christ then died at the hands of their torturers died in vain to give you the faith preserved through the ages?

Now - my hand is sore and I know you didn't enjoy this but tough apples.

Your sweet niceness wore off near the first part of this tirade.

For those of you who defend scripture - then amen to you!

I defend the Scripture. Why are you ignoring Matthew 18?

For those of you who seek to cast doubts on scripture - then I wouldn't want to be in your shoes at the great white throne.

A threat? Is that suppose to sway me back into the cess pool of the protestant reformation?

I know most of you think this kind of talk is unchristian and not "sweet" but some of us grow weary with people who cast doubts on the word of God.

I knew you were lying when you said you would be kind and longsuffering.

The first recorded thing the devil said on earth was:
Gen 3:1 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden
The devil questioned what God said and we've been in a mess ever since - some of you folks are doing the work of the devil - you are questioning what God said and causing others to doubt what God said.?

It would appear you are in his hip pocket. Yes you are doiing just that. Get back with me on Matthew 18 and stop the tirade and threats.

Ya'll have a nice day. :-?

[/quote:87139]

Golly gee thanks man.

Orthodoxy

 

[guibox]

It would be wise to let Scripture dictate doctrine, not formulate doctrine and try and shoehorn some scripture into it just to make it seem like it works.

.

According to your reasoning (which is spot on) people shouldn't formulate a doctrine and try to make the doctrine fit...

...and yet, this is what has happened with Sabbath abrogation, eternal torment and immortal souls going to heaven at death. When one studies the scriptures exegetically using the bible as cross referencing and taking linguistic and cultural context into consideration in the reading of the text one cannot come to the conclusion that the bible supports such doctrines

And herein lies the problem...

You (or others) might say"but there IS support and your view is merely your interpretation." Therefore, we rely on the 'differences of interpretation' scapegoat to justify that which we say those who study the bible shouldn't do: make a text fit. When someone accuses us of 'making the scriptures fit a doctrine' we fall back on 'Your interpretation must be wrong' argument.

So we have thousands of Protestant denominations and sects chanting this mantra and yet we have so much diversity of interpretation in doctrine.

This is what the RC and OC are laughing at us for.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Re: Can't see it

Mind if I join in? Thank ye kindly -

There appears to be a problem here - the issue is final authority. The question is:

What is your FINAL authority?

Wrong question. The question is WHO is your final authority.
The answer is God.

I've visited this forum off and on now for 3 years or so.
Some observations:

I will seek to be nice so as not to violate any rules or hurt anybody's feelings here.

1. It appears that most of you have no final authority.

2. It appears that most of you don't want a final authority. This way you are accountable to no one but your selves.

3. It appears that most of you will never have a fiinal authority.

Wrong again. Each of us has a final authority. For some, it is their reading of the authentic, canonical, true scriptures. They say it is the scriptures themselves, and believe this- but NO ONE reads scripture perfectly.

For those of us who are of ancient, Apostolic traditions, the authorative measure of truth is sacred, canonical scripture, with the Gospels foremost; the umbrella under which acceptable iterpreation of scripture resides is holy tradition,; and the authority to adapt tradition to refined reading of scripture (example, issuing the Nicene Creed) resides within the episcopal authority of the Church.

4. It appears that most of you have rejected the book that God has used for the past 400 years and have replaced it with Rome and Roman bibles (all modern versions are based upon Roman manuscripts) which have never been responsible for any rivival anywhere at anytime and never will. Wherever Rome goes the lights go out and darkness sets in. Just look at the nations where Rome is in authority. Don't shake your fist at me just check out history!

As a member of the Tradition that preserved the Byzantine texts of which the KJV is a translation of, I am inclined to chuckle. I'm inclined to burst into laughter at the notion that revival occurs or does not occur on the basis of textual traditons. Perhaps you should call to mind the following:

"If My people, who are called by my Name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my Face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. "

God brought revival and refreshing many times before there even was a 'bible' as we know it. His conditions are heart conditions, not text edits.

5. Most of the logic presented here on this thread and others like it are as confusing as a termite in a yoyo - interpretation? You are going round and round without a clue of where you are going or have been.

6. It appears that many of you will never see the truth of scripture and what scripture says about itself because God has not opened your eyes to this simple but vital truth -
1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The battle ground has always been always will be until the Lord comes back is.... who is going to run things and by what authority?

I don't know that THAT is the chiefest of battle grounds, but it certainly is a battle ground. We say "us," sola scripturists say "the bible." When we say "us" we mean the whole Church across time; when sola scripturists say "bible only" they mean their interpretive tradition as they understand it at the present time.

I believe God runs things and he gave us his word on it - God's word is found in a King James Bible that can found at any Walmart for $5.95.

God's Word is Jesus Christ. The KJV translation is a translation, but KJVers have given their translation the same level of authority as that vested in those who wrote under the Breath of God. Like any scripture, including the original autographs, the Breath of God is required to make it alive to us. The Breath can make even the most poison, heretical text alive and food worthy of consumption.
But bad texts make for bad doctrine, so I like the new KJV because it comes from the best textual tradition (the Alexandrian tradition is not as early as its proponents purport) and it is in language that people understand ("charity" does not convey "love" in our modern English).

Now, I know that most of you folks don't believe that. All your manuscripts, Greek/Hebrew, Dead Sea Scrolls, college professors, logic, "so called errors" in an AV1611 don't keep me awake enough to yawn.

Go ahead and correct God's word so you can show how smart you are - just remember - Prov 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

God knows your heart and motive for what and why you do what you do. And when you kick out the book that God has used for the past 400 years and all those Bibles prior that were based upon the texts the AV1611 came from then you do it at the risk of damning your soul and the souls of others you are seeking to turn from God's final authority. God's word says, Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You started well, then drove into the ditch and kept your foot on the gas. The textual tradition from which the KJV comes is a god one, it contains the text as the Church has preserved it. If God's arm is too short to save by means of an NLT, NASB, or whatever, then we have a Midget God. Further, the word of God spoken of in Romans 10:17 is rhema (living word), not graphe(scripture/accepted text). While rhema will undoubtedly agree with and be based in graphe, it is not graphe. No, hearing comes by the Living Word of God coming down from heaven- not from an Elizabethan English translation.

If you don't have God's word then you can't get faith - is that simple enough?

Now - my hand is sore and I know you didn't enjoy this but tough apples.

For those of you who defend scripture - then amen to you!

For those of you who seek to cast doubts on scripture - then I wouldn't want to be in your shoes at the great white throne.

I imagine that I am among those that, in your view, don't defend scripture. I know better, as does the Lord, who knows me better than you or I do.

I know most of you think this kind of talk is unchristian and not "sweet" but some of us grow weary with people who cast doubts on the word of God.

The first recorded thing the devil said on earth was:
Gen 3:1 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The devil questioned what God said and we've been in a mess ever since - some of you folks are doing the work of the devil - you are questioning what God said and causing others to doubt what God said.

Ya'll have a nice day. :-?

I don't think you were unkind at all, I think you stated your view fervently and respectfully. I strongly disagree with a few of your points, and I disagree not only from the point of scholarly disagreement (not that I myself am a scholar), but also from a personal, passionate, informed, and I believe, Spirit-led stance.

I don't believe for one second I am causing people to doubt what the Lord said or is saying. I believe I am causing people to consider parts of your argument that are, in my opinion, a strange Puritanical tradition put forth as the very heart of God.
You have yourself a nice day, also.

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Can't see it

Get back with me on Matthew 18 and stop the tirade and threats.Orthodoxy

You must be kidding :o ?

If you are trying to rest you case based upon Matt. 18 then I will in no way engage in seeking to reason with you. Since you've thrown out your anchor there then forget it - God tells me to redeem the time. :-?

Besides - you completely missed the point of my post - in fact I feel pretty comfortable knowing that you are incapable of understanding that post. :roll:

By the way - we have different viewpoints of "being nice" - In this case based upon the importance of the subject matter I was being too nice. 8-)

 

[thessalonian]

When protestants say the Bible is the final authority what it really works out to be is I am the final authority. For my interprutation of what the scriptures say is true, is in fact true. I don't know of anyone who says I am wrong on x, y, and z because the Bible says so. Yet you contradict eachother. Quibox is a great example. He denies the Lord's day and eternal hellfire apparently. Are you an SDA quibox? Says the Bible is his final authority. What is really his final authority is his own interpruation. Of course this is mixed with your man made traditions of Protestantism that nullify the word of God, the worst of which is the foul doctrine of Sola Scriptura. You are all examples for none of you admit error in anything, yet contradict eachother. You are POPES! Yep. :-?

 

[AVBunyan]

Clarification

Some folks may think my tone and attitude is kind of rough sometimes but allow me to explain.

I'm "easy to do business with" - I can sit down over a cold drink or coffee and talk about many things in a gracious and courteous manner - I couldn't use to do that but God has been working on my heart in this area and there is still much work to be done!

When I deal with sinners on the street over their salvation I'm sensitive, patient, and understanding.

When I detect that someone is sincerely seeking truth in Bible issues I'm sensitive, patient, and understanding.

But...but...when I detect subtle or open attacks on "eternal security" (which in reality is an attack on justificaiton by faith which ultimately is an attack on the Lord Jesus Christ) then the "niceness" goes out the window.

And....and when I detect subtle or open attacks on the AV1611 or God's word prior to AV1611 (Yes, I believe God's word was all over the world prior to 1611 :roll: ) then the "niceness" goes out the window.

I do not declare to be a Bible scholar by no means but some things are easy to see if the Lord is in it - and some folks just can't see it because they have been blinded and even here I can have compassion but when the attacks persist but then again....the Lord was not very gracious to the pharisees at times.

Have a nice weekend 8-)

 

[Vic C.]

Some folks may think my tone and attitude is kind of rough sometimes but allow me to explain.

Some folks felt the same way about Jesus, no doubt. In that case, you are in good company, AV.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

But...but...when I detect subtle or open attacks on "eternal security" (which in reality is an attack on justificaiton by faith which ultimately is an attack on the Lord Jesus Christ) then the "niceness" goes out the window.

And....and when I detect subtle or open attacks on the AV1611 or God's word prior to AV1611 (Yes, I believe God's word was all over the world prior to 1611 ) then the "niceness" goes out the window.

Again, I haven't seen you be harsh here, your rationale for being so is essentially "if you disagree with my theology."

 

[thessalonian]

Interesting that I see many of the ones who are crying 'off-topic' are the ones going off topic the most. That's NOT to say they are the ONLY ones doing it.

: I do love Roy Orbison's albums. "cryiiiiiing over you". : I find it funny that you choose to take a shot at non-protestants here with an insult and then say let's refrain from insults below. Isn't "crying" an insult. Sounds like do as I say not as I do. I hope you don't smoke cigarettes and tell your kids not to. I see much humor in your trite little insult however.

[/quote]Again, lets address the topic at hand and refrain from personal insults. We don't want this thread to suffer the wrath of the

, do we?[/quote]

I have to say that most of the derailments of topics on this board and every one I have been on is Protestants attacking Catholic teaching willy nilly without regard to thread topic, since that is what most of these threads end up being about. Attack Catholicism at all costs. No, I think you speak with biased tongue. But that's okay. It's expected of you. I suppose this will be taken as an insult but it would appear to me that moderators on this forum are not selected by what makes a good moderator, i.e. being able to put bias aside for the good of quality debate, i.e. staying on topic, but that you are not Catholic. :-?

Blessings

 

[Judy]

OK! Lets either stay on topic or I will lock this thread! I am really getting tired of all the fighting and personal attacks going on around here.
Can we please try to at least act like adults and Christians? : :-?

 

[thessalonian]

OK! Lets either stay on topic or I will lock this thread! I am really getting tired of all the fighting and personal attacks going on around here.
Can we please try to at least act like adults and Christians? : :-?

Judy,

Can you please clarify what on topic is. Is lashing out at Catholic teaching on Mary on topic in this thread. Is anything non-catholics want to say about Catholics on-topic in a thread like this while we must only talk about SS? Sorry if this post is off topic.

I'll just humor you all for a moment. Let's hypothetically say that the CC is wrong about Mary. Now how would there being wrong about Mary be evidence that SS is correct? It's a non-sequitor that someone has an incorrect interpretation and therefore SS is correct simply because of the fact that unless there is an infallible Protestant or Protestant denomination (I know Solo won't agree with this) all protestants have an incorrect interprutation of something, thus they have a tradition of man that nullifies the word of God on some point in scripture, thus by the logic expressed above SS would be false. Do you follow all that.

Blessings

 

[AVBunyan]

Final authority

Let's face reality here - without a final authority all of these types of dicsussions are nothing more than excercises in futility. :-?

People can believe and make whatever claim they want because anybody can find some "authority" to support their belief - or at least they can twist their authority to make it teach what it doesn't teach due to blindness.

Bottom line - Again, I say with feeling....most here have no final authority so all the discussions, debatings, arguing, "chattings" have amounted to absolutly nothing - nobody has been pursuaded of nothing because they are going to believe what they want regardless. And since this world of "christianity" has multitudes of conflicting authorities then what is the use.

The old nature hates authority and certainly a final authority!

No final authority produces ignorance and finally total chaos - folks, for once be honest - look around - can't you at least see this!?!?!?

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

 

[thessalonian]

Catholicism has no problem with scripture being a final authority. The problem we have is with individuals being a final authority. Scriptures are interpreted by individuals. You mr. av say I am going to hell because I don't believe OSAS. Seems like your taking on a little authority yourself there. Where are the words Once Saved Always Saved. They are not in the Bible, they are your interpretation of the scriptures. You are the autority that equates certain words with scripture. That's fine, we all do it. Oh, you say, but my interprutation is correct. It's an interpretation, you well may (and are) be wrong. Tell me, since you are a man which interpretations do you hold that are wrong? Is there any of them that you will not put a "the Bible says" before them. I doudt it.

 

[Judy]

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" John 10:27.
The term "sola Scriptura" or "the Bible alone" is a short phrase that represents the simple truth that there is only one special revelation from God that man possesses today, the written Scriptures or the Bible. Scripture states this concept repeatedly and emphatically. The very phrase "It is written" means exclusively transcribed, and not hearsay. The command to believe what is written means to believe only the pure word of God. What is at stake before the All Holy God is His incorruptible truth.

In the very last commandment in the Bible God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.


"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"
-Revelation 22:18-19

His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself. (Psalm 119:160)


The Biblical message breathed out by God is revelation in written form. (2 Timothy 3:15-16). The Biblical claim is that what God has inspired was His written word (2 Peter 1:20-21). When the Lord Jesus Christ said, "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35), He was speaking of God's written word. The events, actions, commandments, and truths from God are given to us in propositional form, i.e. logical, written sentences. God's declaration in Scripture is that it and it alone, is this final authority in all matters of faith and morals.

Thus there is only one written source from God, and there is only one basis of truth for the Lord's people in the Church.

Affirmed by Jesus Christ

The Lord Jesus Christ, Himself, identified truth with the written Word. In His great high priestly prayer, He said, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." This was consistent with the declarations right through the Old Testament in which the Holy Spirit continually proclaims that the revelation from God is truth, as for example Psalm 119:142, "thy law is truth." There is no source other than Scripture alone to which such a statement applies. That source alone, the Holy Scripture, is the believer's standard of truth.

In the New Testament, it is the written word of God and that alone to which the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles refer as the final authority. In the temptation, the Lord Jesus three times resisted Satan, saying, "It is written" as for example, in Matthew 4:4, "he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." In stating "It is written," the Lord used the exact same phrase that is used in the Holy Bible forty six times. The persistence of the repeated phrase underlines its importance. The Lord's total acceptance of the authority of the Old Testament is evident in His words found in Matthew 5:17-18:


"Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."
Other sources of authority condemned
People often attempt to give human traditions higher authority than God's Word. This was true of the Jews of Jesus' day. In refuting the errors of the Sadducees, the Scripture records the Lord saying, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29). Christ Jesus continually castigated and rebuked the Pharisees because they made their traditions on a par with the Word of God--corrupting the very basis of truth by equating their traditions with God's Word. So He declared to them in Mark 7:13 "You are making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such things do ye." Since Scripture alone is inspired, it alone is the ultimate authority and it alone is the final judge of Tradition.

The Word of the Lord says as a commandment in Proverbs 30:5-6:


"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
God commands that we are not to add to His Word: this command shows emphatically that it is God's Word alone that is pure and uncontaminated.
Aligned with Proverbs, the Lord's strong, clear declaration in Isaiah 8:20 is: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." The truth is this: since God's written word alone is inspired, it and it alone is the sole rule of faith. It cannot be otherwise.

How is Scripture to be accurately interpreted?

The principle of "sola Scriptura" is basic to accurate interpretation of Scripture. Psalm 36:9 explains, "For with thee is the fountain of life; in thy light we see light." God's truth is seen in the light of God's truth. The Apostle Paul said the same thing, "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (I Corinthians 2:13). It is precisely in the light which God's truth sheds, that His truth is seen. (Cp. John 3:18-21, II Corinthians 4:3-7).

The Apostle Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares, "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:20-21). Logically then, Peter makes it very clear that in order to maintain the purity of Holy God's written word, the source of interpretation must be from the same pure source as the origin of the Scripture itself.

Scripture can only be understood correctly in the light of Scripture, since it alone is uncorrupted. It is only with the Holy Spirit's light that Scripture can be comprehended correctly. The Holy Spirit causes those who are the Lord's to understand Scripture (John 14:16-17, 26). Since the Spirit does this by Scripture, obviously, it is in accord with the principle that Scripture itself is the infallible rule of interpretation of its own truth "it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth" (I John 5:6).

If you want to be true to God in this important matter, follow His instruction, "Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you" (Proverbs 1:23). If you are yearning for truth in the attitude of Psalm 51:17 "with a broken and a contrite heart", the Lord God will not despise you. He will reveal to the basic foundation where the Lord Christ Jesus stood, as did the apostles.

Is Scripture alone adequate, or do we need more?

The total sufficiency of Scripture is declared by the Apostle Paul,


"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
-2 Timothy 3:16-17

For final truth and authority, all that we need is the Scripture.
What about the claim that sola Scriptura is not possible?

In an attempt to justify traditions as being of equal or higher authority than Scripture, an appeal is often made to the very last verse in John's gospel,


"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
-John 21:25

Of course, there were many deeds and sayings of the Lord not recorded in Scripture. Nonetheless, Scripture is the authoritative record that Holy God has given His people. We do not have a single sentence that is authoritatively from the Lord, outside of what is in the written word. To appeal to a tradition for authority when Holy God did not give it is futile. The idea that somehow sayings and events from the Lord have been recorded in tradition is simply not true.
Another attempt to justify tradition, is the statement that the early church did not have the New Testament. The Apostle Peter speaks about the writings of the Apostle Paul when he states,


"...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
-2 Peter 3:15-16

Peter also declares that he was writing so that the believers could remember what he said. So he wrote, "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth" (2 Peter 1:12).
From the earliest days of Christianity, a substantial part of the New Testament was available. Under the inspiration of the Lord, the Apostle Paul commands his letters to be read in other churches besides those to which they were sent. This clearly shows that the written word of God was being circulated even as the Apostles lived. The Lord's command to believe what is written has always been something that the believers could obey and did obey. In this matter we must have the humility commanded in the Scripture not to think above what is written. "...that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another" (1 Corinthians 4:6).

Truth, God's Word, and our love for Him

The Lord brings the topic of truth to bear on our love for Him. This again underscores its importance. "Jesus answered and said to him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent Me" (John 14:23-24). And then again "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35).

The Lord himself looked to the authority of the Scriptures alone, as did His apostles after Him. They confirmed the very message of the Old Testament. "The law of the LORD is perfect" (Psalm 19:7). The believer is to be true to the way of the Lord, holding alone to what is written: "Thy Word is truth."


Author: Richard M. Bennett, Berean Beacon Ministries
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ ... bible.html

 

[guibox]

Quibox is a great example. He denies the Lord's day and eternal hellfire apparently. Are you an SDA quibox? Says the Bible is his final authority. What is really his final authority is his own interpruation.

Okay, first of all it's 'G' uibox not 'Q' uibox. Perhaps that tells me how much you really pay attention to my posts...

Second, yes I'm an SDA but I'm not an SDA apologist. Second, as you can see, I disagree with many fellow Sola Scriptura folks on this. So who'se right? They have come to their conclusion based on Sola Scriptura. It just so happens that it agrees with RC teaching.

So Sola Scriptura is perfectly acceptable when it agrees with RC dogma? Are you going to pick and choose your arguments?

If you honestly study the scriptures and do it properly as Sola Scriptura should, you will not find the support for eternal torment unless you ignore the symbolic, metaphoric and contextual references of it.

That doesn't matter because no matter how much biblical support and reasoning I could present on it, you would not believe it simply for the fact that your church has already stamped the version you have to agree with.

It's a shame that Catholics are so bound by legalism. No room for doubts, not room for searching, no room for questions, no chance for changing the mind, just that infallible rut that you are helpless but to follow.

Sad...

 

[Orthodox Christian]

OK! Lets either stay on topic or I will lock this thread! I am really getting tired of all the fighting and personal attacks going on around here.
Can we please try to at least act like adults and Christians? : :-?

Judy,

Can you please clarify what on topic is. Is lashing out at Catholic teaching on Mary on topic in this thread. Is anything non-catholics want to say about Catholics on-topic in a thread like this while we must only talk about SS? Sorry if this post is off topic.

I'll just humor you all for a moment. Let's hypothetically say that the CC is wrong about Mary. Now how would there being wrong about Mary be evidence that SS is correct? It's a non-sequitor that someone has an incorrect interpretation and therefore SS is correct simply because of the fact that unless there is an infallible Protestant or Protestant denomination (I know Solo won't agree with this) all protestants have an incorrect interprutation of something, thus they have a tradition of man that nullifies the word of God on some point in scripture, thus by the logic expressed above SS would be false. Do you follow all that.

Blessings

Absolutely, perfectly stated. I have highlighted in red the part that demonstrate exactly why Vic was incorrect, and BB was off-topic.

But, since making Lord knows what remark followed with a thought or two about sola scriptura means that I am on topic, here goes:

Sola scriptura is not found in the bible. The usual pasa graphe (all scripture) argument made from 2 Timothy only says that all scripture is useful. It says nothing about that which is NOT useful. Further, as has been noted, the pasa graphe that Paul was referring to only included the Old Covenant scriptures, for Paul said that Timothy had known them since childhood. besides, the gospel of John was about 35-40 years from being written at the time of Paul's writing.