A Person is Justified by Works and not by Faith Alone

[JLB]

Uh, Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29 are not Scripture? I guess that's why you've repeatedly rejected them. You don't consider them to be Scripture. How odd.

No Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29 are not scripture, they are scripture references.

JLB

 

[JLB]

What I bring are verses that actually do SAY what I believe. Unlike so many others, who have to make suppositions about verses that do not actually SAY what they believe.

For example, what verse actually says that salvation can be lost? None. But I've provided verses that teach that eternal life is a gift of God, (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29), yet many simply reject those 2 verses. Apparently they think that those verses don't really mean what they SAY.

No you don't bring any verses, only your opinion and scripture "tags' or references.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Wrong. Eternal life IS a gift of God. And God's gifts are irrevocable. Did you know that the Greek word for "gift" is the SAME in 6:23 and 11:29? That is NOT presupposition. That is FACT. But some don't like that FACT, so they either deny or ignore or reject that FACT.

No Scripture was posted.

 

[FreeGrace]

The Gospel I believe is an Obedience Gospel.

Yes, that is quite clear. So was the Pharisee's.

The works Gospel that Paul condemned was a "works of the law Gospel".

That is not true. His point in Rom 4;4,5 is that we are not saved by works, but by grace. Same point in Eph 2:8,9.

If you were to post the actual scripture, then that would be clear.

I have, they are clear, and you reject them.

You however, continue to post your opinion, and attach a scripture reference to it.

The Scripture SAYS what I CLAIM. Unlike your view, which you cannot find any verse that SAYS what you CLAIM.

 

[FreeGrace]

To obey the Gospel means you obey what the Gospel message says.

No, it means to believe the gospel message. There are many many verses that tell us to believe the gospel for salvation.

Your view has not been supported from Scripture. You've made claims, but haven't backed them up.

If a persons believes the Gospel and receives it with joy, but doesn't repent, turn away from serving Satan and his kingdom, then they have not obeyed the Gospel Message, and will perish.

Well, this is clear enough. You believe that a peson can believe and still perish. All you've done is conflated a bunch of unrelated verses.

The "Believing" of that day, carried the idea of commit and trust as well as obey.

Believing is to trust. Let's consider the "idea of commit". Does it mean to commit one's life to Christ? That seems to be your view. But, considering the gospel, and the meaning of believe and trust, the true meaning of "commit" is to commit our souls to Christ for saving. But I doubt you'll accept that meaning.

Unbelief means to disobey.

No, unbelief means to not believe what God has promised.

You have conflated works with faith for salvation. And Paul refuted that notion, twice. You've been given the passages.

 

[FreeGrace]

No you don't bring any verses, only your opinion and scripture "tags' or references. JLB

This kind of post just results in your losing all credibility. The verses I post prove my view.

What verse SAYS that salvation can be lost? There aren't any.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Wrong. Eternal life IS a gift of God. And God's gifts are irrevocable. Did you know that the Greek word for "gift" is the SAME in 6:23 and 11:29? That is NOT presupposition. That is FACT. But some don't like that FACT, so they either deny or ignore or reject that FACT."

No Scripture was posted.

I guess one could conclude from what I said and what you said is that your statement is a direct lie. I posted 2 verses: Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29, yet you claimed that "no Scripture was posted", which is an obvious untruth.

In order to avoid the charge of liar, I suppose you must think that Rom 6:23 and 11:29 are not really Scripture. Is that how you are comfortable posting what you do?

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"Wrong. Eternal life IS a gift of God. And God's gifts are irrevocable. Did you know that the Greek word for "gift" is the SAME in 6:23 and 11:29? That is NOT presupposition. That is FACT. But some don't like that FACT, so they either deny or ignore or reject that FACT."

No Scripture! Just opinion "tagged' with a reference.

Here is what the scripture Romans 11:29 says -

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

No where in this verse is eternal life mentioned.

I guess one could conclude from what I said and what you said is that your statement is a direct lie. I posted 2 verses: Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29, yet you claimed that "no Scripture was posted", which is an obvious untruth.

No scripture posted here.

Only scripture references.


JLB

 

[JLB]

In order to avoid the charge of liar, I suppose you must think that Rom 6:23 and 11:29 are not really Scripture. Is that how you are comfortable posting what you do?

Rom 11:29 is not a scripture.

It is a scripture reference.

The original scriptures did not even contain Chapters and verse's.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. That is a scripture.


Rom 11:29 is a half of a scripture reference.


JLB

 

[JLB]

This kind of post just results in your losing all credibility. The verses I post prove my view.

What verse SAYS that salvation can be lost? There aren't any.

That's your opinion, just like your post's.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Well, this is clear enough. You believe that a peson can believe and still perish. All you've done is conflated a bunch of unrelated verses.

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

A person can realize with their mind that they need to repent, but if they don't actually do the work of repenting, then they will perish.

Believing without obeying is dead.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! James 2:19

A person must show they believe by repenting.

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

No Scripture! Just opinion "tagged' with a reference.

This is irrational. And very unreasonable.

Here is what the scripture Romans 11:29 says -
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

No where in this verse is eternal life mentioned.

Oh, right. That came back in 6:23, where Paul used the SAME GREEK WORD for gift when defining eternal life.

It is very irrational to ignore that Rom 6:23 AND 11:29 prove that eternal life is a gift of God that is irrevocable. This is irrefutable.

No scripture posted here.

It was. Your statement is blatantly untrue.

Only scripture references.

A Scripture reference is still Scripture. And Rom 6:23 and 11:29 refute your view. Soundly.

You, otoh, have failed to show from anywhere in Romans that Paul didn't include eternal life as one of the gifts of God that are irrevocable.

You have failed to support your view.

 

[FreeGrace]

Rom 11:29 is not a scripture.

It is a scripture reference.

I am hopeful that those who don't know what is SAYS will look it up. You want me to actually quote the verse instead of citing the location? I can do that. But what would that accomplish? You come to Scripture with your strong pre-suppositional bias that eternal life is revocable, so no amount of proof will convince you otherwise.

Even though you have failed to provide any verse that SAYS what you keep claiming.

The original scriptures did not even contain Chapters and verse's.

Is really an attempt at a defense?? How about this:

The gift (charisma) of God is eternal life.
The giftrs (charisma) of God are irrevocable.

There. No references, since they seem to offend, or distract, you. Was that better? But I suppose now you'll just say those statements are my opinion only. Yet, they are direct quotes of Scripture.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. That is a scripture.

For sure. And eternal life is a gift of God. That is a Scripture. But you refuse to put them together. Which is irrational and unreasonable.

Rom 11:29 is a half of a scripture reference.

No, it's a whole reference. It's the whole verse, not just half a verse, as you insinuate.

Your statements are very confused.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"What verse SAYS that salvation can be lost? There aren't any."

That's your opinion, just like your post's.

If there were any verses that SAY that salvation can be lost, you would have either cited them, or quoted them. But since you did neither, proves that there aren't any that SAY what you CLAIM.

Your view is an opinion.

My view is Scripture. Eternal life is a gift of God. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. You want the reference, so you can look it up?

 

[FreeGrace]

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

Please define what you think "repent" means here.

A person can realize with their mind that they need to repent, but if they don't actually do the work of repenting, then they will perish.[/QUOTE[
Where do you get the notion that repenting is a work?

Believing without obeying is dead.

It's figuratively dead in the sense that it is useless (like a dead body) for demonstrating one's faith without works (obedience).

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! James 2:19

Why do you conflate belief in monotheism with saving faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life? They aren't equated in any sense.

A person must show they believe by repenting.

They must, not for salvation, as you suppose, but in order to demonstrate their faith to others.

It's people who need to see works in order to 'see' one's faith. God sees the heart. 1 Sam 16:7
"But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for manl ooks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3 JLB

Please define what you think "repent" means here.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"What verse SAYS that salvation can be lost? There aren't any."

If there were any verses that SAY that salvation can be lost, you would have either cited them, or quoted them. But since you did neither, proves that there aren't any that SAY what you CLAIM.

Your view is an opinion.

My view is Scripture. Eternal life is a gift of God. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. You want the reference, so you can look it up?

Yet another post with no scripture, only opinion.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yet another post with no scripture, only opinion.

This is what I said:
"My view is Scripture. Eternal life is a gift of God. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. You want the reference, so you can look it up?"

The underlined sentences ARE Scripture, so quit messing around. The first sentence is found in Rom 6:23, and the second sentence is found in Rom 11:29.

So your claims continue to be untrue.

What is opinion is what you claim and haven't proven. In fact, not even a bit of evidence for your opinion.

Why should anyone believe that salvation can be lost when there aren't any verses that actually state that?

 

[JLB]

(Post removed, Tos 2.4, Trolling. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

A person can realize with their mind that they need to repent, but if they don't actually do the work of repenting, then they will perish.

Believing without obeying is dead.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! James 2:19

A person must show they believe by repenting.

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
This is what I said:
"My view is Scripture. Eternal life is a gift of God. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. You want the reference, so you can look it up?"

No Scripture Again???

I'm not sure that you are conscious. I quoted directly 2 verses, both of which ARE Scripture. But it seems you have rejected both Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29 as Scripture.

So, what do you consider them, since they ARE in your Bible. Unless you have blotted or cut them out of your Bible.

Come on man, if you want people to respond to your post's, then post the scripture.

Come on man, wake up. Get conscious.

Otherwise I will just chalk you up to another opinionated person with no scripture to back up what they say.

JLB

I guess your strongest suit is your simple denial of reality.