According to Jesus...

[shad]

Surly you have fellowship with other Christians?

My evangelism is my fellowship. My family is my fellowship. Internet Christian friends is my fellowship.

take care.

 

[Danus]

But I'm asking you, how will you get in? On what merit will you enter haven? Do you not know? What justifies your ability to be in the presents of a holly God? If you don't know just say you don't know.

After all this talk and verses, you still don't get my point, I am done with you.

take care.

I struck a never with a question you can't answer. You might want to take the "H" from your handle to describe your faith.

I truly wish I could share what I have with you. I just wanted to know how you are saved and you can't say it because I think you don't know.

I'm sure you would agree that the devil whispers to us that we are not good enough for God. It's a message he loves to propagate, but you know, I've never heard God say that. I've never heard God say "your not good enough for me." If anything he begs us to love him the way he loves us.

There are circles in life with people who say the same thing. "your not good enough for our club; your not allowed in here. This section is reserved for first class only."...on and on it goes. People are judged by the clothing they ware, the money they make, their jobs, homes and on and on, but Christ only judges us on ONE THING! and that's our acceptance of him.

Sadly many people treat him as they treat any other person, or else they think they are not good enough for him, but yet he accepts them. That's love. How does anyone reject that?

My God has had plenty of reason to reject me, yet the moment I turned to him he accepted me right there on the spot. Over time I felt surly he would say get lost, but he kept chasing me. He did not let me go. He's like a stalker that you get to know. You might be able to loose your salvation, but I can't, don't want to. To you OSAS is false doctrine. humm. ??

I hope you can count me as your friend Shad. Sometimes your best friends are the ones willing to argue with you the most.

 

[shad]

Come on Shad! How can you make that statement brother?

I was devoted to churches for several years. I joined major denominations, mega, medium and small-sized. They all have similar characteristic; they are not devoted to Jesus, but to their churches. Since we stopped attending church, we finally found joy and peace serving Jesus.

 

[shad]

I hope you can count me as your friend Shad. Sometimes your best friends are the ones willing to argue with you the most.

Ok, you are my friend. So would you open to what I have to say?

 

[Danus]

Ok, you are my friend. So would you open to what I have to say?

Sure. We'll be at odds on salvation, but at least we know what we each think about it.

I am not much of a church goer you might say. I attend a nondenominational church right now. I was a member of a Presbyterian church mega for about 10 years. Still am, but it's too far from my home right now so I was lucky to find the one I go to now.

The mega church I attended was once very small. I watched it grow like crazy over that time. The church I'm in now is kind of cool. My kids love it. Lot of young folks there. I like the crowd and I support this church. I like what it's doing in the community and the concept they have for growth.

I will say that my experience at the now mega church has lead me to be a little turned off on mega churches. I lost some intimacy with it over the years. Got to the point where I would go and not see anyone I knew. crazy, but I still love that church.

I understand what you are saying about churches being devoted to the "church", but I will say that I think people can feel that it is the churches responsibility to their faith more so than the church would agree with.

I once heard a pastor make this statement; "The church is like a business. People are our business." hummm? I struggled with that, but I understood what he meant.

Now days contemporary churches have an agenda that is a little different then their predecessors in so far as taking care of the "flock". They are more into delivering the message, but in a broader seance. A lot of them use a pop-psychology style message. They do this for a reason. I think maybe that might be a big rub with you..? but, what do you think.

 

[francisdesales]

Ok, this is your organization's reasoning and I disagree wholeheartedly. The Bible is not as complicated as you are making it out to be. Paul's instruction is just basic principle.

You continue to ignore your initial "call no man father" gaffe, which goes to show how your "organizational reasoning" is faulty.

As to Ezekiel...

It is common sense... Are you saying the Apostles were unfaithful shepherds? Perhaps you don't believe what they taught, then?

Or is it your "organization's reasoning" that states all organizations are bad and one must self-interpret the "Bible"?

 

[watchman F]

I will give you this you are hard core not going to budge no matter what scripture says. Is that a good thing? I think not.

Church attenders are hard core, they are not open to the Bible. They are dovoted to their pastors and denominations.

Sad, but true.

 

[jasoncran]

but you lead at home who or what gives you the nt. it aint printed on the air, somebodies buying.

No, I take a trip overseas every year to give them out. We have a life besides the INTERNET. Are you saying the internet and your church are the only way to serve God? Don't use your own scale to measure everyone else, friend.

somebody prints those bibles and you pay for them, and why is it with that you can blast the chruch and those that go to it, yet cant answer nor take any criticsm. i never implied that the way i do it is the only way, but i do see this that in your anger that you often contradict yourself.

one cant be a small church and not have any organization,creeds, and means of doing somethings be that require money.

you are part of the chruch and vulnerable to same faults us all, thats the point instead of condemning us try another approach.

 

[Danus]

one cant be a small church and not have any organization,creeds, and means of doing somethings be that require money.

you are part of the chruch and vulnerable to same faults us all, thats the point instead of condemning us try another approach.

Agree. Like it or not a church is like a business no matter how small. Bibles and supporting literature in various media forms don't just magically appear. You can’t just pray away problems in the community, or hope sick people will recover, or expect to reach non-believers in today’s society by standing on street corners preaching. It takes hard cash and management to make it happen in this world today.

The church is in competition with the secular world for the hearts and minds of people. Like my ol’mega church leader said; "The church is like a business. People are our business." If you can get 100 people in the door, you’re going to lead a portion of them to God.

 

[Danus]

[quote="watchman F":1lsgpd8g]

I will give you this you are hard core not going to budge no matter what scripture says. Is that a good thing? I think not.

Church attenders are hard core, they are not open to the Bible. They are dovoted to their pastors and denominations.

Sad, but true.[/quote:1lsgpd8g]


How sad it is that people go to church and are hard-core believers ???

 

[Mysteryman]

one cant be a small church and not have any organization,creeds, and means of doing somethings be that require money.

you are part of the chruch and vulnerable to same faults us all, thats the point instead of condemning us try another approach.

Agree. Like it or not a church is like a business no matter how small. Bibles and supporting literature in various media forms don't just magically appear. You can’t just pray away problems in the community, or hope sick people will recover, or expect to reach non-believers in today’s society by standing on street corners preaching. It takes hard cash and management to make it happen in this world today.

The church is in competition with the secular world for the hearts and minds of people. Like my ol’mega church leader said; "The church is like a business. People are our business." If you can get 100 people in the door, you’re going to lead a portion of them to God.

Hi Danus :

I have to disagree with your comment here. God is the one who gives the increase, and no amount of money or buisness like attitude is going to change what God will or will not do. The church is not in a competition with the secular world for the hearts and minds of people.

God is the one who can change peoples heart, and it is God who gives the increase. I see way too many times, where people or organizations believe that money is the power that opens up the way to allow God to help change peoples hearts. Jesus never went about with this approach ! Never !

He fed the multitude with a few fish and a couple of loaves that were donated and he prayed over them, and the multitude was fed. LIkewise, the multitude followed him, not because he spent lots of money to impress or override the counter wealth of the world. Just the opposite is true !

 

[shad]

The mega church I attended was once very small. I watched it grow like crazy over that time.

The mega church is mega because they are secular friendly church, not devoted to be faithful to Jesus' commandments and teachings. They don't talk about their unfaithfulness or make them feel guilty topic at all. If they do, they will not be so popular. And small churches are striving to be like mega churches too. It is so sad. The pastors and priests seem to be sold their souls to satan.

Now days contemporary churches have an agenda that is a little different then their predecessors in so far as taking care of the "flock".

When I was very new believer, I was in love with their music. Their music got me excited to sing along with them. It is all about how-they-can-get-people-come-to-their-church, yes it is all about business to get more people and keep them to their church.

 

[shad]

How sad it is that people go to church and are hard-core believers ???

He meant that church goers are hard-core to trust their church doctrines. It feels safe to be one of the crowd.

 

[shad]

You continue to ignore your initial "call no man father" gaffe, which goes to show how your "organizational reasoning" is faulty.

Let's focus on one at a time. I will get back to you later.

As to Ezekiel...
It is common sense... Are you saying the Apostles were unfaithful shepherds? Perhaps you don't believe what they taught, then?

They were faithful but satan got their followers very quick. The organization system is very easy to manipulate people to be hooked on. Satan is master of deception. Evil is attractive to men than good.

 

[shad]

somebody prints those bibles and you pay for them, and why is it with that you can blast the chruch and those that go to it, yet cant answer nor take any criticsm. i never implied that the way i do it is the only way, but i do see this that in your anger that you often contradict yourself.

Are you saying that I contradict myself because I pay and use the Bible?

 

[francisdesales]

They were faithful but satan got their followers very quick. The organization system is very easy to manipulate people to be hooked on. Satan is master of deception. Evil is attractive to men than good.

As long as we live in the world, there is no foolproof way of avoiding the possibility of being subjected to evil and temptation. Being outside of an organization instituted by Christ that teaches the Word of God does not make evil less attractive, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise...

If you recall, Christ's followers were also deceived and manipulated to some degree by Satan, so apparently, even walking with Christ in person does not prevent the possibility of being duped by Satan. If we use your logic, where does that leave us?

I understand you desire a "pure and holy" organization as evidence that it is from God. However, it is only with the parousia that the Body will be presented to God pure and immaculate. Until then, we continue to battle Satan, and there will be victories and defeats in this daily war.

Regards

 

[shad]

As long as we live in the world, there is no foolproof way of avoiding the possibility of being subjected to evil and temptation. Being outside of an organization instituted by Christ that teaches the Word of God does not make evil less attractive, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise...

You have a point. We can go on never ending. We just do our best to evangelize as pure as we can according to our convictions. Then we wait Jesus' judgment how faithful or how deceived.

Let's move on to teachers, what was your question?

thanks.

 

[francisdesales]

You have a point. We can go on never ending. We just do our best to evangelize as pure as we can according to our convictions. Then we wait Jesus' judgment how faithful or how deceived.

Let's move on to teachers, what was your question?

thanks.

I did not have a question regarding teachers, I was just providing correction on the idea that we don't need them.

Regards

 

[Danus]

Hi Danus :

I have to disagree with your comment here. God is the one who gives the increase, and no amount of money or buisness like attitude is going to change what God will or will not do. The church is not in a competition with the secular world for the hearts and minds of people.

God is the one who can change peoples heart, and it is God who gives the increase. I see way too many times, where people or organizations believe that money is the power that opens up the way to allow God to help change peoples hearts. Jesus never went about with this approach ! Never !

He fed the multitude with a few fish and a couple of loaves that were donated and he prayed over them, and the multitude was fed. LIkewise, the multitude followed him, not because he spent lots of money to impress or override the counter wealth of the world. Just the opposite is true !

I understand.

There is not much I can say to defend a situation that clearly exist in society today; particularly in regards to churches employing people, time, energy, resources and such to do the best they can in this world to reach and help people for the kingdom.

I’m not saying that God needs your money, so please don’t take that from what I said. Some churches have more than others and they use what they have to do what they feel is best in regards to being effective as a body of Christ.

If I drive a BMW and someone else drives a beat up ford, does that make me wrong? After all I don’t need it. I could have the lesser car and used the left over cash for Christ right?

Envy is a sin to, you know. People with a little cash get kicked around quite a bit these days, even though they also give. God can use the wealthy in ways he can’t use the poor.

How can someone judge a church because they serve Starbucks coffee and have a stone facing on their building? God may not be in competition, but churches are. They are trying to attract members. What's wrong with that?

 

[Danus]

How sad it is that people go to church and are hard-core believers ???

He meant that church goers are hard-core to trust their church doctrines. It feels safe to be one of the crowd.

eeehhhh? That's pretty general and assuming statment. Sounds like a deep rooted bitterness. What the heck happened to you two at church?