According to Jesus...

[jasoncran]

shad start a thread on why we you believe that, and add the verse where jesus specifically told the roman soldiers not to be one anymore.

 

[shad]

so i will repeat this question to wit you dodge or just say i never said do anything. what does one do to stop evil? i want you idea on this.

And you keep forgetting that the world is controlled by satan, evil will exist until Jesus returns. Read the passage of love your enemy; the military practice does not harmonize with His teaching. You don't repay evil with evil. The Bible also says "vengeance is Mine"; He is the Judge of this world.

I know I already told you many times about this, you just don't want to accept it and don't like it.

 

[shad]

I am totally perplexed by your comments here. May I ask, what "grave sin against Jesus' commandment" is it that you are talking about here in relationship to being a part of the military ?

Yes.

 

[Danus]

Who exactly are "they"? Your saying all churches support the military? How exactly?

Most trinitarian churches; both Catholics and protestants.

I know one that does not support the military what so ever.

It is very rare.

The only church that came to my mind was the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas. Which bring me to wonder what your definition of corruption is in relation to the hearts and minds of people.

I don't know of any "church body" as a whole that supports the military either financially, ideally, or symbolically, but I would say that most support the men, women and families in and of the military. That hardly adds up to being corrupt.

 

[jasoncran]

so i will repeat this question to wit you dodge or just say i never said do anything. what does one do to stop evil? i want you idea on this.

And you keep forgetting that the world is controlled by satan, evil will exist until Jesus returns. Read the passage of love your enemy; the military practice does not harmonize with His teaching. You don't repay evil with evil. The Bible also says "vengeance is Mine"; He is the Judge of this world.

I know I already told you many times about this, you just don't want to accept it and don't like it.

no, shad, you forget that very means that enforces the laws you OBEY are thought up by Satan.
if we take that verse that way.

 

[Danus]

[quote="watchman F":3jf15b5l]If you mean me and shad by you two, I go to church about 3 of them all week long....lol. I just refuse to allow the teaching of man to effect the clear meaning of scripture as you have done.

How then have you set yourself apart from other men and their teachings? What is it about your interpretation of scripture that is any more superior?

More superior? I dont interpret it. I believe it as it is written. When the Bible says this or that I do not make up long dialoges why it means something else as you do. I believe it exactly as it is written.[/quote:3jf15b5l]

OK.
I think you mean dialogue, something we have not been able to establish. To interpret something and to believe something are two distinctly different things.

You can not believe something unless you have first interpreted it. I've no doubt that you believe the bible and I've no doubt that you have interpreted the bible to your degree of interpretation, but you might want to consider stopping at the point of your interpretation.

If you go to a pool to swim and you can't swim very well, you can still enjoy the pool. Just don't jump into the deep end, for your own sake. However, while you should not try to swim against Michael Phelps, or tell him how to swim, you could ask him to help you swim better. Whats wrong with that?

In your case you are against denominational churches and such. You don't care for the thoughts of men like Adrian Rogers, RC Sproul, for example; just a couple of great interpreters of the bible. The are to theology what Michael Phelps is to swimming, yet you would think you know more then they do just because you believe it so. That's foolish for your own sake.

If you don't know why you believe what you believe then you should, lest you be sold a bill of goods yourself, that is not true, and drown in it.

 

[jasoncran]

i love adrian rogers, a true man of God. he used to preach in my home county(that baptist chruch that he pastored in his youth is still around). yes, danus, he is the sole reason i accepted osas(with the holy spirit using him of course).

 

[Danus]

i love adrian rogers, a true man of God. he used to preach in my home county(that baptist chruch that he pastored in his youth is still around). yes, danus, he is the sole reason i accepted osas(with the holy spirit using him of course).

If you mean Bellevue Baptist, yes sir it is. My office is just down the road from it. I drive past those three crosses every day. Last time I saw him was about 1999 I think. My wife and I went to see a passion play there. Yes he's a giant....past on home of course.

 

[jasoncran]

i love adrian rogers, a true man of God. he used to preach in my home county(that baptist chruch that he pastored in his youth is still around). yes, danus, he is the sole reason i accepted osas(with the holy spirit using him of course).

If you mean Bellevue Baptist, yes sir it is. My office is just down the road from it. I drive past those three crosses every day. Last time I saw him was about 1999 I think. My wife and I went to see a passion play there. Yes he's a giant....past on home of course.

no his first church was fellesmere baptist chruch in indian river county, fl, where i live. he went to seminary in orlando pastored there at the same time.
rogers didnt start at bellevue baptist till after 1971, he was at merrit island baptist for a number of years before that. he was in my county in the early 60's. i think.

 

[Danus]

no his first church was fellesmere baptist chruch in indian river county, fl, where i live. he went to seminary in orlando pastored there at the same time.
rogers didnt start at bellevue baptist till after 1971, he was at merrit island baptist for a number of years before that. he was in my county in the early 60's. i think.

Yep I knew he came from FL. I had know idea who he was when I meet him that night in 99. I was only a few years into my faith. I'm originally from TX. Work moved me to TN and I meet a few people who attended his church, knew him well, and they invited me to this event.

I got shake his hand and spoke to him for a while. He was a gentle, but straight up, commanding kind of man. Solid. Had a look about him as if he could see right through you. Firm handshake, unmistakable voice.

My friends asked me what I thought of him and I said; "seems like a nice guy." They just laughed, Again I had no idea what a power house I was meeting.

 

[watchman F]

How then have you set yourself apart from other men and their teachings? What is it about your interpretation of scripture that is any more superior?

More superior? I dont interpret it. I believe it as it is written. When the Bible says this or that I do not make up long dialoges why it means something else as you do. I believe it exactly as it is written.

OK.
I think you mean dialogue, something we have not been able to establish. To interpret something and to believe something are two distinctly different things.

You can not believe something unless you have first interpreted it.

To believe and interpret something are two very different things. However you do not have to interpret something to believe it. You can just believe it. If I tell my wife I am picking her up from work, and then we are going straight to Wal-Mart, what part of that does she need to interpret? None of it, she can simply believe that it is true. This is how I receive God's word.

 

[Danus]

To believe and interpret something are two very different things. However you do not have to interpret something to believe it. You can just believe it. If I tell my wife I am picking her up from work, and then we are going straight to Wal-Mart, what part of that does she need to interpret? None of it, she can simply believe that it is true. This is how I receive God's word.

She needs to know what Wal-Mart is to know where she's going with you. She knows what Wal-Mart is, where it is and I'm sure how to get there. She also needs to know the language you speak to decide what each word means in conjunction to the whole statement. She needs to have that to interpret what you told her.

If she's anything like my wife she may also ask why you need to go there and tell you how best to go.

Conversely, If I tell my dog I'm taking him to the vet. He has no idea where he's going. He just knows he's going somewhere. He trust me. He'll look at me with head cocked to one side because he's just trustworthy and faithful. He loves me, there is no question about that, but he can't grasp what I'm saying to him. He can only interpret what I say to a point. Beyond that he's done. With his simple love and trust alone he'll never drive himself to the vet. He'll never have a conversation with words, or speak Spanish. I can't ask him a question and get an answer. He can only interpret my actions and love for him.

But you know, that's OK. If he had half of the ability I mentioned, just half, he might think he's on the same level as I am, or he might know he's not depending on how he interpenetrates his abilities, my abilities, or my motives for him. In any case he would have to come to that conclusion bassed on how he interperates the situation.

Reaching a conclusion requires an understanding and that requires interpretation which leads to belief. No one just believes for the sake of believing without first reaching a conclusion. Some may want to, or wish to. Let's face it; it's not always easy to reach a conclusion before we can truly believe. Many times we'd rather just believe. However, we can get help to reach a conclusion so that we might believe, but that requires trust of another and their abilities and their motives before we can say; "Ok I see what that person is saying and I trust them and they make sense and I understand now". All that still requires interpretation before we can have true belief in what ever.

Look at the men who followed Jesus. They did not always understand, but they trusted, or did they? Did they fully? Where where most of them when he was dieing on the cross? Hiding and denying; that's where. One of them did not trust Jesus at all. Sold him out. They all had to come to terms with something SO BIG they did not fully understand it and they where THERE! with him.

No one simply believes the bible without first coming to terms with what it says and what it means and to do that they have to develop an interpretation of it. Some have simple interpretations and believe it and some are far more complex. You may say we'll I believe it as it is, and you know, that's fine. However do you understand it fully as it is? I doubt it, but that's nothing against you. At the same time it's better know know it as fully as you can so that it's concrete! So that you won't make a misjudgment about it and so that you might better apply it to your life.

There is no shame in not knowing, but to know you have to step outside of what you think you know and try on some other thoughts. weigh all out. Nothing wrong with that, but it can be scary. "What if I find out I don't know what I thought I knew?" That's what people ask themselves. I say, "what if you never know what you could know?" That's way more frightening to me.

Look at the word "Ignorant". It gets people mad if they think they deserve that label, but look at the word. Ignorant. ...To be ignorant is not to be dumb as much as it is to ignore the truth.

Again look back at the men and all the people who lived and walked with a breathing, speaking, physical Christ. They had to experience him and the events and live it, walk it. Only then could they look back with any understanding of what it was all about.

When you say OSAS is false, you had to reach that conclusion and when you did, you put a lid on it, never to open it up again. Not only that, you say you don't trust the well established doctrines of many churches. Doctrines and thoughts that men far grater in their abilities to understand the scripture than you are I, have established and shared and even died for. Yet you ignore that. you have placed a lid on your conclusion.

I would like to invite you to open the lids and leave them open. There is plenty of room in your jars of thought and knowledge to hold even more, but you can't place any more in there if the lids are close. You may not value some of those vessels of knowledge and that's OK, but if you have nothing to compare them to to make conclusion then you can not know what you have is valuable or not.

 

[shad]

no, shad, you forget that very means that enforces the laws you OBEY are thought up by Satan.
if we take that verse that way.

Wow, obeying Jesus' commandments is a teaching of Satan? This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

You are denying, disobeying and dishonoring Jesus with your logic.

 

[shad]

The only church that came to my mind was the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas. Which bring me to wonder what your definition of corruption is in relation to the hearts and minds of people.

I don't know of any "church body" as a whole that supports the military either financially, ideally, or symbolically, but I would say that most support the men, women and families in and of the military. That hardly adds up to being corrupt.

It is corrupt because they disobey Jesus' clear command using His name. You don't love your enemies by killing them.

 

[shad]

Jason and Danus,

This is what Jesus says:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Does this passage harmonize with military practice? No!

 

[jasoncran]

no, shad, you forget that very means that enforces the laws you OBEY are thought up by Satan.
if we take that verse that way.

Wow, obeying Jesus' commandments is a teaching of Satan? This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

You are denying, disobeying and dishonoring Jesus with your logic.

but what the romans 13 say. give tribute to whom tribute is due. its also says that the sword it carries isnt used to be in vain.

you claim that satan is charge and that buy working for the govt is working for the devil. i took your thinking to where it would go.

 

[jasoncran]

so paul sinned then when this occured as he sent his nephew in the book of acts 23:23 and see the verses earlier 23:16,17.

so shad the romans were ready to kill if need be. so i guess paul shouldnt have let his nephew talk to the centurions.

i guess when we see a need to call the cops we should let the enemy of us(rapists, and murders) do their thing.

after all let us love them and not return evil for evil.

 

[watchman F]

To believe and interpret something are two very different things. However you do not have to interpret something to believe it. You can just believe it. If I tell my wife I am picking her up from work, and then we are going straight to Wal-Mart, what part of that does she need to interpret? None of it, she can simply believe that it is true. This is how I receive God's word.

She needs to know what Wal-Mart is to know where she's going with you. She knows what Wal-Mart is, where it is and I'm sure how to get there. She also needs to know the language you speak to decide what each word means in conjunction to the whole statement. She needs to have that to interpret what you told her.

If she's anything like my wife she may also ask why you need to go there and tell you how best to go.

That is exactly what I mean, Instead of simply believing God you complicate the whole issue until you are backwards in your beliefs.

 

[shad]

but what the romans 13 say. give tribute to whom tribute is due. its also says that the sword it carries isnt used to be in vain.

Romans 13 is all about paying taxes. Everyone including Jesus' followers has to pay taxes because we live on earth.

you claim that satan is charge and that buy working for the govt is working for the devil. i took your thinking to where it would go.

This is not my claim; it is what the Scripture says. If you dont know what I am talking about, I will look it up for you.

 

[shad]

That is exactly what I mean, Instead of simply believing God you complicate the whole issue until you are backwards in your beliefs.

Exactly!!! thanks watchman.