According to Jesus...

[shad]

Shad....The US military as a whole, is there to defend us against those that are bent on destroying us. I'm not going to say that the military has been used and employed 100% properly over the years, but It's there for our protection. Not to be used in hate.

His teachings and commandments apply to everyone and everything, even to our governments. If it is against His teachings you should not accommodate. You are making excuses.

 

[jasoncran]

Shad....The US military as a whole, is there to defend us against those that are bent on destroying us. I'm not going to say that the military has been used and employed 100% properly over the years, but It's there for our protection. Not to be used in hate.

His teachings and commandments apply to everyone and everything, even to our governments. If it is against His teachings you should not accommodate. You are making excuses.

so shad then lead by example, when the bad guy comes to rape your wife. please be honest and dont stop him

for if you just bruise him in self-defense is that not repaying evil for evil.

danus you are correct on that miltiary view held by the church as a whole. most churches i have been to dont get involved in the politics of the war only support those that are in it. and many do protest how the military has been used.

 

[RichardBurger]

This thread assumes that what Jesus said to the Jews (who were under the law of Moses), He said to us today who are not under the law of Moses but under grace.

Jesus did not come to the Gentiles. However, God has used His work on the cross to save everyone and anyone that will trust in His work on the cross.

Scripture:

It is clear to me that Jesus Christ did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" To the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

Since the Jews could not keep God's laws and the Gentiles were never given the laws, God NOW saves anyone that will place their faith in God's (Jesus') work on the cross. The purpose for this is so that Jesus gets all the glory for man's salvation.

 

[shad]

This thread assumes that what Jesus said to the Jews (who were under the law of Moses), He said to us today who are not under the law of Moses but under grace.

So are you saying that we don't have to keep and honor His teachings and commandments?

Then why does He say "if you love Me, keep my commandments?" It seems that you are saying He came down to give us permission to do whatever we want to do.

 

[Danus]

I think what's really at issue here is what is the body of Christ in relation to that which we individually belong.

A church can be a body of Christ. A denomination can be a body of Christ. A small group of Christians can be a body of Christ and an individual can be a body of Christ. That can all be, and have some failings. We should all be open to correction, but I hardly think we can point a finger to say a body of Christ needs correction without evidence just because an individual belongs to a larger or smaller body that we might feel has some failings. ,,,that's just blind prejudice and at it's core is ignorance brought on by fear.

 

[shad]

I think what's really at issue here is what is the body of Christ in relation to that which we individually belong.

All His followers are part of body of Christ, you don't have to belong to any particular group or organization to be one.

 

[shad]

so shad then lead by example, when the bad guy comes to rape your wife. please be honest and dont stop him

You don't have to kill evil to protect innocent ones; you are continually making excuses. His teachings apply to all circumstances. That's why Jesus says, if you love your family, friends and whatever(your country) more than Me, you cannot be my disciples.

 

[jasoncran]

I think what's really at issue here is what is the body of Christ in relation to that which we individually belong.

All His followers are part of body of Christ, you don't have to belong to any particular group or organization to be one.

but when you accuse a pastor within that body , you need to have some proof,not just conjecture.
you say this or that, but name a church and its speciifically.

i can point to churches by name that are in my hometown that preach false doctrines

ie
church of christ by the sea accepts gays in ministry and has reconsituted to something else, they were part of the diocese.

 

[Danus]

This thread assumes that what Jesus said to the Jews (who were under the law of Moses), He said to us today who are not under the law of Moses but under grace.

So are you saying that we don't have to keep and honor His teachings and commandments?

Then why does He say "if you love Me, keep my commandments?" It seems that you are saying He came down to give us permission to do whatever we want to do.

But, shad...you seem to be mixing this with accepting salvation. You seem to be saying that we must keep these commandments to be saved. We are saved first when we accept Christ in faith. We should keep Jesus commandments, but we are not ...NOT saved if we slip up in our efforts. Our salvation is not revoked in that way. We may disappoint God, we may need correction, We should learn from our mistakes, but he does not take back the salvation we accepted. We are held accountable but we are still saved.

In your view there is no room for growth in salvation. In your view it's black and white. Your either good enough for salvation or your not. You fail to see that no one is good enough for salvation.

If we don't accept salvation in faith (a free gift from God) if we don't claim it...then we are condemned.

 

[Danus]

I think what's really at issue here is what is the body of Christ in relation to that which we individually belong.

All His followers are part of body of Christ, you don't have to belong to any particular group or organization to be one.

Your avoiding what I'm saying. You can belong to a particular group if you want and still be part of the body. You've spent a lot of time talking about how particular bodies are wrong, unbilical and false but you've not presented any evidence. Just accusations.

 

[shad]

But, shad...you seem to be mixing this with accepting salvation. You seem to be saying that we must keep these commandments to be saved.

Jesus says "if you love Me, keep my commandments." How can you say we are saved without loving Him?

 

[jasoncran]

so shad then lead by example, when the bad guy comes to rape your wife. please be honest and dont stop him

You don't have to kill evil to protect innocent ones; you are continually making excuses. His teachings apply to all circumstances. That's why Jesus says, if you love your family, friends and whatever(your country) more than Me, you cannot be my disciples.

so you would let your wife get raped then.

if he has a knife and you are able to stop him via anymeans.

which one would shad use?
hands?
feet
pan.
homemade weapon(a knife,broom)
cops

hands or feets , the rapists will most likely win. and i know how to disarm a knife but i dont want to find out

pan you must get close stop him, and hope that you knock him out or disable

same with the others

cops, they would warn him and if he fails to drop the knife, they shoot him if need be(taser can be used by the threat matrix allows deadly force.)

so answer me, or do you only talk the talk.

since you believe in love thine enemy even in this situation then what should i do?

 

[Danus]

But, shad...you seem to be mixing this with accepting salvation. You seem to be saying that we must keep these commandments to be saved.

Jesus says "if you love Me, keep my commandments." How can you say we are saved without loving Him?

There you go again brother. I did not say we are saved without loving him. How can you assume I did? I said we are saved by accepting him in faith. I further said that we can not loose that once we have done that.

Our love for him grows in our growth of understanding.

 

[Danus]

so shad then lead by example, when the bad guy comes to rape your wife. please be honest and dont stop him

You don't have to kill evil to protect innocent ones; you are continually making excuses. His teachings apply to all circumstances. That's why Jesus says, if you love your family, friends and whatever(your country) more than Me, you cannot be my disciples.

so you would let your wife get raped then.

if he has a knife and you are able to stop him via anymeans.

which one would shad use?
hands?
feet
pan.
homemade weapon(a knife,broom)
cops

hands or feets , the rapists will most likely win. and i know how to disarm a knife but i dont want to find out

pan you must get close stop him, and hope that you knock him out or disable

same with the others

cops, they would warn him and if he fails to drop the knife, they shoot him if need be(taser can be used by the threat matrix allows deadly force.)

so answer me, or do you only talk the talk.

since you believe in love thine enemy even in this situation then what should i do?

I know what I'd do. ....then I'd repent and ask for forgiveness. If I had time I'd ask for the strength to stop them.

 

[shad]

There you go again brother. I did not say we are saved without loving him. How can you assume I did?

Because you keep saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commandments to be saved. And that's what OSAS is all about. And that's why is is flawed.

 

[shad]

so you would let your wife get raped then.

Don't put your words in my mouth friend. I do everything to protect innocent people if it happens around me. I dont have to kill anyone to do it. And I don't play "what if" games. I can handle anything with God's help to do His will.

 

[Danus]

There you go again brother. I did not say we are saved without loving him. How can you assume I did?

Because you keep saying that you don't have to obey Jesus' commandments to be saved. And that's what OSAS is all about. And that's why is is flawed.

Nope that's not what OSAS is about and you have no understanding of what it is about. You think you reach salvation by first conforming. That's just not true. You reach salvation by first accepting. By accepting you then start conforming. You don't start conforming by that which you do, but by that which Christ does in you. That's obeying.

You place obedience before salvation to justify salvation. There is nothing more unbiblical than that, nothing more false than that, and if you are preaching that garbage to others, then you are the one propagating false doctrine.

That's why you go outside the mainstream denomination because you can't get away with it inside any true church. They will call you out for it. So, you hide. Maybe that is best, but you can't hide from God.

 

[jasoncran]

so you would let your wife get raped then.

Don't put your words in my mouth friend. I do everything to protect innocent people if it happens around me. I dont have to kill anyone to do it. And I don't play "what if" games. I can handle anything with God's help to do His will.

so you never plan for the events of castopres then.
you dont lock doors, nor avoid the situations for that can lead you into harms way.
so how will do it shad, just pray.

it takes action, i have been robbed, and assaulted by a man(not raped). military term for unwanted sexual touching, and i wish i was more alert to stop him , as i knew him.

that isnt a what if my friend, to plan a means to escape a fire or disaster isnt either, but you claim that i'm wrong, then just tell me how you will defend yourself.

see, shad, i am a realist. i seriously doubt you will stand by. but unless you are God himself, how will you stop him?


i have faced death daily, and it comes quick.i have been fortunate enough to have just missed a rocket hitting me.


i live in a bad neighborhood, so i stay alert,i have been stalked. and so on.

 

[watchman F]

That is exactly what I mean, Instead of simply believing God you complicate the whole issue until you are backwards in your beliefs.

So I believe in God and I believe in Christ and that I must accept him in faith, repent of my sins and receive salvation... That's what I believe, and now your saying all that is backwards?

I'm starting to think you are arguing just to argue. :crazy

Yes your believes are backwards...why? Because you have left out the most important part....Endure until the end!!!!!, Endure, endure, endure!!!!!

 

[Danus]

[quote="watchman F":3p1ksaiv]That is exactly what I mean, Instead of simply believing God you complicate the whole issue until you are backwards in your beliefs.

So I believe in God and I believe in Christ and that I must accept him in faith, repent of my sins and receive salvation... That's what I believe, and now your saying all that is backwards?

I'm starting to think you are arguing just to argue. :crazy

Yes your believes are backwards...why? Because you have left out the most important part....Endure until the end!!!!!, Endure, endure, endure!!!!![/quote:3p1ksaiv]

I've no choice but to endure. I endure in my salvation. I walk with Christ and he has me. I've no plans to turn from it. Been going strong for 22 years now just growing in my faith.
That might be backwards from your experiences, but I hope not.