According to Jesus...

[shad]

so paul sinned then when this occured as he sent his nephew in the book of acts 23:23 and see the verses earlier 23:16,17.

so shad the romans were ready to kill if need be. so i guess paul shouldnt have let his nephew talk to the centurions.

i guess when we see a need to call the cops we should let the enemy of us(rapists, and murders) do their thing.

You are reading the Bible the way you want without context.

after all let us love them and not return evil for evil.

Jesus also says let the dead bury their own dead. You should start reading the whole Bible instead of only what your church offers.

 

[jasoncran]

but what the romans 13 say. give tribute to whom tribute is due. its also says that the sword it carries isnt used to be in vain.

Romans 13 is all about paying taxes. Everyone including Jesus' followers has to pay taxes because we live on earth.UH NOW, WHAT THEY DO WITH IS ALSO EXPLAINED

you claim that satan is charge and that buy working for the govt is working for the devil. i took your thinking to where it would go.

This is not my claim; it is what the Scripture says. If you dont know what I am talking about, I will look it up for you.

YOU CLAIM THAT THE DEVIL IS IN CONTROL, MEANING THAT ALL THINGS RUN BY THE GOVERTMENT HAVE HIS FOOTPRINT. THEREFORE WHEN THE PERSON WHO BUILT THE HOUSE YOU LIVE IN , THE CODES AND ALL WAS THAT THE DEVIL TOO.

MEN ARE INFLUENCED BY THE DEVIL, THAT IS THAT MEANS, I HAVE NEVER MEANT TO NOR IMPLY THAT THE VERSES IN EPHESIANS 6 ON THAT MEAN THAT ALL THE PERSONS WHO WORK FOR VOTE, OR ARE IN THE ARMY ARE THE DEVILS SERVEANT. YOU MAKE THAT CLAIM.

IT SEEMS ODD THAT PETER AND PAUL WOULD TELL US TO HONOR THE DEVILS SERVEANTS.CAPS USED TO DIFFERIANTE.

 

[jasoncran]

so paul sinned then when this occured as he sent his nephew in the book of acts 23:23 and see the verses earlier 23:16,17.

so shad the romans were ready to kill if need be. so i guess paul shouldnt have let his nephew talk to the centurions.

i guess when we see a need to call the cops we should let the enemy of us(rapists, and murders) do their thing.

You are reading the Bible the way you want without context.
NEGATIVE, I READ THE BIBLE AND KNOW IT, I HAVE READ IT FROM GENESIS TO THE END 4 TIMES.THAT WAS IN CONTEXT WITH WHAT YOU SAID AFTER ALL IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE ARENT REPAY EVIL FOR EVIL THEN HOW CAN WE CALL THE LAW ENFORCERS AND BE RIGHT. AFTER THE LAW(GOVERMENT) IS IN FOR THE CONTAIMENT OF EVIL(ROMANS 13) SO IF EVIL IS BEING DONE,BY PROXY WHEN YOU CALL THE LAW AND THEY DEFEND YOU, AND TAKE A LIFE THAT IS EVIL BY YOUR TWISTING OF THE SCRIPTURES.

after all let us love them and not return evil for evil.

Jesus also says let the dead bury their own dead. You should start reading the whole Bible instead of only what your church offers.

SEE ABOVE. IF THATS THE CASE DO YOU NOT USE THE LAW TO STOP CRIME?

 

[shad]

Jason,

Here is what the Bible says about the satan:

John 12:30
Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

You interpretation is cherry picking.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason,

Here is what the Bible says about the satan:

John 12:30
Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

then reconcile that with this. romans 13:3 FOR THE RULERS ARE NOT A TERROR TO GOOD WORKS, BUT TO THE EVIL. WILT THOU THEN NOT BE AFRAID OF THE POWER? DO THAT WHICH IS GOODM AND THOU SHALT HAVE PRAISE OF THE SAME;(ON TO VS 4)
FOR HE IS A MINISTER OF GOD TO THEE FOR GOOD. BUT IF THOU DO THAT WHICH IS EVIL,BE AFRAID; FOR HE BEARETH NO THE SWORD IN VAIN: FOR HE IS THE MINISTER OF GOD, A REVENGER TO EXECUTE WRATH UPON HIM THAT DOETH EVIL.


so God uses the devil? and tell us to fear him and respect the laws that the devil says to do?

dont confuse the the office with the men or women who abuses it.

 

[shad]

so God uses the devil? and tell us to fear him and respect the laws that the devil says to do?

dont confuse the the office with the men or women who abuses it.

Those are excuses to justify one's own desires. You are not God, you should not judge anyone fit to be destroyed. No one is good enough to do that. Do you think God is telling all government leaders to kill each other? After all, every country has a government.

 

[jasoncran]

so God uses the devil? and tell us to fear him and respect the laws that the devil says to do?

dont confuse the the office with the men or women who abuses it.

Those are excuses to justify one's own desires. You are not God, you should not judge anyone fit to be destroyed. No one is good enough to do that. Do you think God is telling all government leaders to kill each other? After all, every country has a government.

but that lord says the he did ordain the goverment to do just that, to contain evil, that doesnt have to be lethal injection, but it can be.

if another coutnry unjustly attacks another are we then to not protect our citizens? are we to let evil run amok and not have order. i'm not saying that all wars are just, that is why i have no problems with those that disagree with me on the wars (afghanistan or iraq) the latter i think i was mistake.

but to say that bush was wrong for invanding must be based on known intel that we dont have acess to, its my opinion that he was, but he has some intel that i dont have acess too.

on judgement via the laws. if you must face the death penalty who would rather have? a judge who is bible believing one or seculat one. the former may be lenient.

 

[shad]

but that lord says the he did ordain the goverment to do just that, to contain evil, that doesnt have to be lethal injection, but it can be.

You are constantly cherry picking. What did Daniel and his three companions do when their king ordered something against God? They refused to obey the king and they almost got killed because of it.

 

[jasoncran]

but that lord says the he did ordain the goverment to do just that, to contain evil, that doesnt have to be lethal injection, but it can be.

You are constantly cherry picking. What did Daniel and his three companions do when their king ordered something against God? They refused to obey the king and they almost got killed because of it.

uh did i say or imply that we aren to follow unbiblicals laws.

but if being a soldier is so unbiblical then why did jesus only tell the roman soldiers not to treat any man harshly, look that one up.

and you assume much. daniel worked for that king as a PRINCE.ODD AINT IT AND SO DID JOSEPH WITH A PHAROAH WHO THOUGH HE WAS A GOD. BUT THE PHAROAH HUMBLED HIMSELF TO LET JOSEPH RULE AND SAW THE WISDOM.

 

[jasoncran]

i am not yelling nor i am mad. i was using caps to make a point to emphasize.

 

[shad]

and you assume much. daniel worked for that king as a PRINCE.ODD AINT IT AND SO DID JOSEPH WITH A PHAROAH WHO THOUGH HE WAS A GOD. BUT THE PHAROAH HUMBLED HIMSELF TO LET JOSEPH RULE AND SAW THE WISDOM.

I dont assume anything, I am only following what the Bible says. You are twisting around to justify your own reasoning. So far you are not making any sense at all.

I dont want to continue with you any more. It is just ridiculous the way you twist around everything. It seems that your pride is hindering what the scripture says. You trust your church's twisted versions. You are determined to go against everything that I have to say. So what we are doing is meaningless.

 

[jasoncran]

i am not twisting anything, i take what you say to logical conclusions.

you say that your pov is in the bible, then if thats the case then why does daniel
work for a devilish king? or joseph with a gentile ruler.

God's purpose. the same with esther , she was used to save the jewish nation, that is cleary said by mordecai.

its the people in the goverment that make it good or bad. not necessarily the devil himself. we like to blame satan for this or that when we want to sin.
does satan have control yes, but with God-fearing christians that can be changed, we may not usher the lord's return but nowhere does it say that we arent to impact culture. the early church saved unwanted babies and that law was changed in rome , they also help to end the gladiatoral combats.

 

[Danus]

[quote="watchman F":2v2vw2yn]To believe and interpret something are two very different things. However you do not have to interpret something to believe it. You can just believe it. If I tell my wife I am picking her up from work, and then we are going straight to Wal-Mart, what part of that does she need to interpret? None of it, she can simply believe that it is true. This is how I receive God's word.

She needs to know what Wal-Mart is to know where she's going with you. She knows what Wal-Mart is, where it is and I'm sure how to get there. She also needs to know the language you speak to decide what each word means in conjunction to the whole statement. She needs to have that to interpret what you told her.

If she's anything like my wife she may also ask why you need to go there and tell you how best to go.

That is exactly what I mean, Instead of simply believing God you complicate the whole issue until you are backwards in your beliefs.[/quote:2v2vw2yn]

So I believe in God and I believe in Christ and that I must accept him in faith, repent of my sins and receive salvation... That's what I believe, and now your saying all that is backwards?

I'm starting to think you are arguing just to argue. :crazy

 

[shad]

i am not twisting anything, i take what you say to logical conclusions.

Look how far you came from Jesus' clear and simple message of "love your enemy". You are making simple message so complicated. sheesh.

 

[shad]

Jason and danus,

Read this simple message of Jesus:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

 

[jasoncran]

shad i am all for that, i have done that, but when it comes to letting some child molester get my my grandaughter he will face the business end of a gun if i cant get away or the law isnt there to help.

my pastor used that verse and preached on the need to love our enemies,

do we get mad and curse when we get cut off traffic
do we get even when offended
do we show mercy.

that doenst negate the need of law enforcement and civil laws. shad that is for us not to take matters into our own hands.ie we let ourselves be able to be hurt in certain situations.

 

[shad]

shad i am all for that, i have done that, but when it comes to letting some child molester get my my grandaughter he will face the business end of a gun if i cant get away or the law isnt there to help.

That's how you come up with excuses. You dont have to kill a child molester to protect your child. You dishonor Jesus with your excuses.

 

[jasoncran]

shad i am all for that, i have done that, but when it comes to letting some child molester get my my grandaughter he will face the business end of a gun if i cant get away or the law isnt there to help.

That's how you come up with excuses. You dont have to kill a child molester to protect your child. You dishonor Jesus with your excuses.

not if he has a gun. i'm sorry but my sister was raped by a man when she was 12.

if i could stop the attack i would , and legally its allowed to use deadly force for that, if he is big, man enough to over power me. and at that time he was. though i couldnt have a gun
as i was a minor
so what you do, let him molest her child.
hmm i do bjj and teach it and have other martial arts. so tell me when i'm coming at you with a machete what are your going to use to stop me?

 

[Danus]

Jason and danus,

Read this simple message of Jesus:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Shad....The US military as a whole, is there to defend us against those that are bent on destroying us. I'm not going to say that the military has been used and employed 100% properly over the years, but It's there for our protection. Not to be used in hate.

There is a big difference in hating your enemy and protecting your life. You can protect life and still love your enemy. Like the OSAS argument you are making a mockery of the scripture and applying it where it does not belong.

Earlier you said that all organized churches support the military. All Protestant and Catholic churches. That's just small minded to think that's true. You have no evidence of that. There are many people who go to church, who are members of the churches you say are wrong, who don't like the military or how it's been used, but they pray for the people involved, they pray for conflicts to end, they pray for God to get involved. You'll find yellow ribbons and flags waving at their homes, and some even have sons and daughters in the armed services. I know for a fact because I know tons of people like that.

One of the most righteous wars the US has ever been involved in was WWII. Churches supported the military then more than ever. They helped with scrap drives and such, but more than that they where there for the families caught up in a war they wished did not have to be. That part has not changed. Churches help broken people, They are there when someone looses a son in battle. They give money for and help organize relief efforts....is that supporting the military?

On the flip side, the Westboro Baptist Church, who does not support the military, will show up at your son's military funeral and disrupt it to say that God did a good thing by killing your son because he's in the US military and God Hates Homosexuals. ?? :crazy

So far, you've bashed people who think they are saved, who live for Jesus. You've bashed the major denominations who have done more good than I can count, and you have totally twisted and misused scripture to propagate and justify your mistrust of churches. You've found the negative in everything. I think you have a whole list of hurts that you carry like stones in your pockets, weighing you down.

This is all about something else....something you have that is not on the surface because you are keeping us from seeing it. You did not just read the bible and come to these conclusions without comparing it to something else in your life. What has happened to you in your past that you are carrying? You said you once attended a mega church. Did you attend any others? What took place there that lead you do just bitter distrust of churches?

 

[shad]

not if he has a gun.

His teachings and commandments apply to all circumstances. it is another excuse.