According to Jesus...

[shad]

because truth be told, even in martial arts (all good and practical ones) they are technigues that kill, maim. and suchlike. those are taught to be used when you may loose your life, limb etc.

You dont have to maim and kill the evil ones for protection.

 

[francisdesales]

.
Francisdesales

What do you think of the preemptive strike idea of self defense?

JamesG

I think Pope John Paul's stance was correct. We remind our leadership that there must be definitive evidence of immediate threat, and the threat should be removed with minimal life lost. Unfortunately, we don't have access to the intel, so we cannot judge at the time of the crisis whether our leadership is covering plans of aggression with the so called "self defense" and "just war" talk. We continue to remind our leadership of the Christian ideals and that there better be a darned good reason to spend life and treasure abroad...

Note, the Church is not in charge of the military machine, so the best we can do is provide our voices in the hope that we are heard.

In the case of Iraq, it seems that the US intelligence was faulty to make this fall within the definition of a "just war" that called for an invasion...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

well if one wants to get in shape bjj and judo, is the best but i am biased toward those. though i do like others such as the karate i used to do and aikido.

You don't need any weapon to protect yourself if you know the martial arts. Why dont you preach about it instead of carrying around guns?

I just go to the gym and pump iron and get huge. No one will mess with you, then!

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks for the reminder; Calvin was a vicious man too. He ordered the killing of one non-trinitarian I know of. He did not have Jesus' spirit. It is just strange that so many churches follow his teachings even though Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

This is right Calvin was an unrepentant murderer, and we are supposed to take his word for what scripture teaches us? I think not!!!

How is it you know that St. Augustine did not have a true relationship with God? Did you read "Confessions", his conversion story?

Regards

 

[watchman F]

Thanks for the reminder; Calvin was a vicious man too. He ordered the killing of one non-trinitarian I know of. He did not have Jesus' spirit. It is just strange that so many churches follow his teachings even though Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

This is right Calvin was an unrepentant murderer, and we are supposed to take his word for what scripture teaches us? I think not!!!

How is it you know that St. Augustine did not have a true relationship with God? Did you read "Confessions", his conversion story?

Regards

Augustine taught many false doctrines, such as only catholics will inherate eternal live, penence, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the sinlessness of Mary purgutory. many of which Catholics still believe to this day. with all this incorrect doctrine being spewed from this man why would I accept OSAS which he envinted because a murderer like Calvin says to. Especially when the bible clearly opposes such a belief?

 

[shad]

Sorry you guys are cracking me up at this point. .... burning people at the steak was a hobby of many in that day. I guess it's a good thing this is all on line and we don't all live in the same village

I feel guilty for not buying a ticket to this show.

Danus,

Your supporting the military makes you so insensitive to vicious crimes.

 

[Mysteryman]

Mysteryman,

So what is your point? It is ok to kill people who attack you? I dont think so. You are twisting around to suit your desire. Your interpretation is secular concept, not of Jesus, friend. It seems like you are playing word games.

Hi Shad :

I was merely asking you a question as to whom is your enemy. I explained the spiritual implication, not the physical --- and this is your reply ????????????????????

 

[shad]

I was merely asking you a question as to whom is your enemy. I explained the spiritual implication, not the physical --- and this is your reply ????????????????????

Your explanation is out of context. Through out the New Testament, Jesus and His disciples are non-violent and pacifists. I am so surprised with your reasonings and am disappointed. "Love your enemy" is simple and clear message. You are making it complicated.

take care.

 

[jasoncran]

Sorry you guys are cracking me up at this point. .... burning people at the steak was a hobby of many in that day. I guess it's a good thing this is all on line and we don't all live in the same village

I feel guilty for not buying a ticket to this show.

Danus,

Your supporting the military makes you so insensitive to vicious crimes.

evidence, since now you bear false witness. crimes of what?
i want names, places and incindents.

your taxes support the same.

 

[shad]

evidence, since now you bear false witness. crimes of what?
i want names, places and incindents.

You don't seem to be reading through or are you doing it on purpose? We were talking about Calvin's vicious crime of ordering to kill non-trinitarian. Let me ask you a question; do you not know the crimes committed by RCC's persecuting their opponents?

your taxes support the same.

You already addressed it and I replied. I say it again. Taxes are used for many things not just for the military. Please talk like an adult instead of nitpicking.

 

[francisdesales]

How is it you know that St. Augustine did not have a true relationship with God? Did you read "Confessions", his conversion story?

Augustine taught many false doctrines, such as only catholics will inherate eternal live, penence, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the sinlessness of Mary purgutory. many of which Catholics still believe to this day. with all this incorrect doctrine being spewed from this man why would I accept OSAS which he envinted because a murderer like Calvin says to. Especially when the bible clearly opposes such a belief?

First, Augustine didn't propagate the false doctrine of "Once saved always saved". That is ludicrous. Calvin "cut and pasted" the works of Augustine out of context.

Secondly, how does this reflect on his "true relationship with God"???

Regards

 

[JamesG]

.
Shad

When I can disappear from the sight of people trying to kill me, as did Jesus until it was time for him to die, then maybe I will become a pacifist. Until then, I will only hurt people in self-defense or in defense of my family and friends, and the occasional underdog whom I know not, but who is obviously being hurt for no good reason. I will not stand by and allow a woman to be raped just because I don't know her. And for sure I would not want a pacifist for a friend because they would allow me to be killed right in front of their eyes and not lift a finger to help me. To me that is the most selfish unloving of acts.

JamesG

 

[shad]

.
Shad

When I can disappear from the sight of people trying to kill me, as did Jesus until it was time for him to die, then maybe I will become a pacifist. Until then, I will only hurt people in self-defense or in defense of my family and friends, and the occasional underdog whom I know not, but who is obviously being hurt for no good reason. I will not stand by and allow a woman to be raped just because I don't know her. And for sure I would not want a pacifist for a friend because they would allow me to be killed right in front of their eyes and not lift a finger to help me. To me that is the most selfish unloving of acts.

JamesG

I understand what you are saying. I will not just watch people being raped or killed and I am not suggesting to do that either. I will do anything to stop it. However I will not use any weapon to harm or kill evil. I will not condemn anyone who kill the vicious evil even though I will not do it.

The military is completely different matter. It is obvious evil institution against Jesus' commandment.

 

[watchman F]

How is it you know that St. Augustine did not have a true relationship with God? Did you read "Confessions", his conversion story?

Augustine taught many false doctrines, such as only catholics will inherate eternal live, penence, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the sinlessness of Mary purgutory. many of which Catholics still believe to this day. with all this incorrect doctrine being spewed from this man why would I accept OSAS which he envinted because a murderer like Calvin says to. Especially when the bible clearly opposes such a belief?

First, Augustine didn't propagate the false doctrine of "Once saved always saved". That is ludicrous. Calvin "cut and pasted" the works of Augustine out of context.

Secondly, how does this reflect on his "true relationship with God"???

Regards

Certainly you do not believe that someone who taught so many lies could be in a true relationship with God, do ya?

 

[JamesG]

.
Shad

A nation is like a person in a sense. It is an organization the life of which is human or a few humans. Thus it is necessary to have a military that is an organizational arm of defense. It is sometimes misused. It is used as an arm of offense. But misuse does not mean that the military has no value. It is the same as a person on person situation. Just because one person is aggressive does not mean that another person should not protect themselves. The purpose remains the same even if it is misused. America is misusing its power by sending the national guard that is meant to be strictly defense into an offensive situation. But you tell the big bully what he is doing and see how far you get. It will take a China or several Mideastern nations to stand up to the bully. And as always the bully never sees themselves as such. Only those around them who are trying to live peaceably, as much as that is even possible on a world of fallen humans, can see a bully for what he really is.

JamesG

 

[JamesG]

.
Francisdesales

""In the case of Iraq, it seems that the US intelligence was faulty to make this fall within the definition of a "just war" that called for an invasion...""

I agree with your post. And I agree with the above statement. It is unfortunate that Obama has decided to perpetuate a bad situation. But then he may be a politician like all the rest or he found out what the real situation is after he got into office and is now trying to make the best of a bad situation. We probably won't know in our lifetime.

I wrote you a post on the 1 on 1, but after four hours it hasn't shown up as yet. I do hope that you read that second post. Perhaps you can understand my position a little better from that post. Nevertheless, if our experience is too drastically different, discussion on that subject will be futile. Perhaps you will see what I mean when they finally get my post up.

JamesG

 

[shad]

.
Shad

A nation is like a person in a sense. It is an organization the life of which is human or a few humans. Thus it is necessary to have a military that is an organizational arm of defense. It is sometimes misused. It is used as an arm of offense. But misuse does not mean that the military has no value. It is the same as a person on person situation. Just because one person is aggressive does not mean that another person should not protect themselves. The purpose remains the same even if it is misused. America is misusing its power by sending the national guard that is meant to be strictly defense into an offensive situation. But you tell the big bully what he is doing and see how far you get. It will take a China or several Mideastern nations to stand up to the bully. And as always the bully never sees themselves as such. Only those around them who are trying to live peaceably, as much as that is even possible on a world of fallen humans, can see a bully for what he really is.

JamesG

It is easy to distinguish evil ones in personal basis, not on a national level. Do you really trust your leaders as godly? It is usually pride against pride and greed against greed. Jesus' followers should not get involved with world's affairs. Jesus says His followers are not of this world. The politics are of this world. The military is biggest part of politics.

 

[Guest]

For he is God's servant to you for good. But if you do evil, fear; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's servant, an avenger for wrath to the one practicing evil.
(Rom 13:4 EMTV)



For he beareth not the sword in vain -
The “sword†is an instrument of punishment, as well as an emblem of war. Princes were accustomed to wear a sword as an emblem of their authority; and the “sword†was often used for the purpose of “beheading,†or otherwise punishing the guilty. The meaning of the apostle is, that he does not wear this badge of authority as an unmeaningful show, but that it will be used to execute the laws. As this is the design of the power intrusted to him, and as he will “exercise†his authority, people should be influenced “by fear†to keep the law, even if there were no better motive.

A revenger ... -
In Rom_12:19, vengeance is said to belong to God. Yet he “executes†his vengeance by means of subordinate agents. It belongs to him to take vengeance by direct judgments, by the plague, famine, sickness, or earthquakes; by the appointment of magistrates; or by letting loose the passions of people to prey upon each other. When a magistrate inflicts punishment on the guilty, it is to be regarded as the act of God taking vengeance “by him;†and on this principle only is it right for a judge to condemn a man to death. It is not because one man has by nature any right over the life of another, or because “society†has any right collectively which it has not as individuals; but because “God†gave life, and because he has chosen to take it away when crime is committed by the appointment of magistrates, and not by coming forth himself visibly to execute the laws. Where “human†laws fail, however, he often takes vengeance into his own hands, and by the plague, or some signal judgments, sweeps the guilty into eternity.
-Albert Barnes



a revenge to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil;
he is a defender of the laws, a vindicator of divine justice, an avenger of the wrongs of men; and his business is to inflict proper punishment, which is meant by wrath, upon delinquents.
- John Gill


Rom 13:4 The sword -
The instrument of capital punishment, which God authorizes him to inflict.
-John Wesley


For he is the minister of God, a revenger -
???? ???????? ????? ???????, For he is God’s vindictive minister, to execute wrath; ??? ?????, to inflict punishment upon the transgressors of the law; and this according to the statutes of that law; for God’s civil ministers are never allowed to pronounce or inflict punishment according to their own minds or feeling, but according to the express declarations of the law.
-Adam Clarke

 

[Guest]

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecc 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.



http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... f=30&t=289

 

[Guest]

The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
(Mat 8:8-13 KJV)

Huh.....no mention there to quit his day job and Jesus even HEALED this military mans servant !
Would have been a perfect point for Jesus to TELL the guy to stop being a soldier IF it were required !