Tenchi
Member
"There is no man so blind as he who will not see."
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Advice in "The Search"
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"There is no man so blind as he who will not see."
Carry_Your_Name
Member
They weren't meant for each other because marriage is NOT for everyone, a sustainable relationship requires commitment and investment, it's not given for granted as most people assume. It is a common misunderstanding that "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen. 1:28) and "leave his parents and join his wife" (Gen. 2:24) are a "cultural commandment", since marriage is ordained by God, it is our duty to fulfill it, that is conflating DEscription with PREscription and taking God's will in your own hands, that was one big mistake Aabraham made by mating with Hagar, so he could be the father of many nations as God told him.
My practical advice to stay celibate and not lust for any woman, you don't go to college for dating, God loves single people as much as married people; actually, celibacy is more of a blessing as it gives you the freedom to pursue what God calls you to do without the distraction of woman and burden of family. However, if you've made up your mind that dating is your calling and college is a good time for that, then take caution, 'cause although the book you read is more about why than who, the primary concern according to biblical principles is always who, not why. Dating a good woman is a blessing, dating a bad woman is a curse, marriage itself is a neutral institution.
Historically, the "why" is peer pressure. Previous generations were raised in such an environment where one had a lot of opportunities to meet the opposite sex in person, and they were usually surrounded by siblings and friends who engaged in dating, marriage and kids, and it feels good as the "happiness hormones" rages when you're bonding with other people; these days this environment doesn't exist anymore, everybody is hooked to their phones, everybody is entitled to their own truth, there's a general lack of trust in one another, and online dating is a scam; also, the societal attitude toward dating, marriage and kids has also changed, they'renot something you naturally experience as life progresses, but conscious lifestyle choices, and they're all optional. Dating is not meant to be an idol that you must worship and serve, you better figure out what you really want in your life and count the cost of energy, money and time for dating before you throw yourself into the dating pool. The way I see it, dating is nothing but a wild goose chase that'll leave you with nothing but a bruised ego, "making yourself available" is making yourself vulnerable.
He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there're eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it. (Matt. 19:11-12)
I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. (1 Cor. 7:26-28)
Since apparently you're not here to have a biblically intellectual conversation, (obviously because you cannot, we've debated before, and I seen you debate before since March of last year.), I'll just note down that heresy and vague insults you derive from secular sources, but won't back up (because you can't back it up or else you would have instead of using the "I don't argue card" which is a lie.)
We're gonna ignore the fact that I had at least 2 people agree with my original counter against you either verbally or through the emojis, (oh wow, 2 or 3 witness a testimony is verified lol, 2 Corinthians 13:1, and Deuteronomy 19:15)
You're really making yourself look bad by not justifying violating 1 Timothy 4:2, and not answering the initial Scripture based counter I gave you that you didn't expect coming, but pride disabled you from the honorable way out.
I hear so many grievances of people who desert Christianity because of acts like your doing of pride (Romans 2:24)
God warns about pride, (Proverbs 16:18) and since I believe you are brethren, I'm giving you a Scriptural warning about pride, (James 4:6). Realize God can use who you think low of and exalted yourself above to teach even you (1 Corinthians 1:27-29)
Ik its humiliated to get corrected by people younger or who you seem beneath you (John 9:24-34), but what's better? It's only benefiting you.
It's funny I'm so blind and limbless but at least I got a Divine backing and my mind isn't clouded by my own clout. And "50" years of... In 50 years nothing came up about insulting people because of them correcting your false theology?
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Sorry I didn't get back, I have to split my attention on getting my question asked and dealing with pride and heresy.
Anyways, I know the celibacy stance and a lot of people, especially older and even married people, advocate that for our generation. Knowing myself celibacy isn't an option as I will not be able to focus on God with rising passion. (1 Corinthians 7:9)
Theologians commonly thought Paul a widower.
Question are you married?
Okay fellas, that's about enough of the sarcasm being thrown about.
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I'm going to post this reminder from our Terms of Service. Please review and act accordingly. I will invoke thread bans if necessary.
1.0: At ChristianForums.Net, all of our site policy is built around one common theme: To create a Christian community that is One Spirit, One Body, One forum. Our aim is to provide a place where Christians can fellowship together in a welcoming environment, for encouragement, for mutual inspiration, and for strengthening in the word of God, that all might be built up together in their Christian faith. We encourage honest, open but courteous discussion that fascilitates study, meditation, reflection and growth in the things of God. To that end:
1.1: Any posting which fosters the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the building up of this community will be encouraged. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, long-suffering, and brotherly friendship are the focus here, and we will promote the work and involvement of any members if they exemplify the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ and His teachings.
1.2: Anyone who is not a Christian is only permitted to post in the Question and Answers section, and those who identify themselves as Christians will be held accountable to conduct themselves as such. If they are truly governed by the Holy Spirit, they will not continually engage in goading, mocking, insulting, trolling, berating or inciting other members to anger and resentment. They will post in a Spirit of kindness and respect, even if there are doctrinal disagreements, and be quick to reconcile if differences of opinion should get heated. Disciplinary actions will be taken against those whom staff regards to be naming the name of Christ and yet are holding the truth in unrighteousness.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Would I have given such advice if I had been married? To be honest, I didn't choose celibacy, celibacy chose me, I've just accepted my fate and made some reason out of it. In other words, I'm a content and peaceful volcel (voluntarily celibate) instead of a toxic and desperate incel (involuntary) as though God owes them a woman. Even if I had the opportunity, I'd missed it, that ship had sailed and it'll never come back, why would I torment myself by lamenting that? God cares about me so much, more than my own parents, that he doesn't want me to have "trouble in the flesh", then so be it. Amen.
As for Paul, he may or may not be a widower, it was customary for pharisees to marry early, but that's not a certainty. What is certainty is that he was single by the time he wrote the Corintian letters, as he "wished you all remain as I am" in his teaching - or suggestion - about marriage. So even if he had had a wife, he surely wasn't traveling with her, as though he had none.
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Tenchi
Member
Upon a second skimming of your posts to me in this thread, I developed a nagging feeling that, despite your combativeness, you might be looking genuinely for a biblical response. So, against my initial impulse, I'm going to offer the following:
Romans 11:36 - Romans 12:1-2
36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
It's only in order to understand why being a living sacrifice is, as one translation puts, it "your reasonable service" (KJV), that Romans 11:36 is very important. Romans 12:1 is a natural, rational (i.e. "reasonable") conclusion from the premise described in Romans 11:36. But merely knowing the rational basis for Paul's commands in Romans 12:1-2 doesn't enable obedience to those commands. Many are the truly born-again people who, knowing the reason behind Romans 12:1-2 nonetheless neglect to live in obedience to Paul's command. Paul actually described this incongruity within himself, demonstrating that mere reason is insufficient to bring to pass obedience to God's commands.
Romans 7:14-24
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Paul briefly acknowledged this struggle common to Christian living in his letter to the believers in the province of Galatia:
Galatians 5:17
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
So, then, it isn't mere reason, simple rationality, that produces Christian obedience. The logic of Christian obedience, though helpful in godly living, is not in-and-of itself sufficient to produce godliness.
I didn't ask you if there was a contradiction between the passages - which, obviously, there isn't - but an order of logical priority in which they should be arranged relative to one another. There is, of course, which Jesus described when he spoke of the First Great Commandment and "the second which is like unto it" in Matthew 22:36-39.
I was getting at the proper order in which God intends we should arrange our "loves," understanding that, in God's economy of things, our love for others is preceded by and arising from a whole-being love for our Maker. Unfortunately, many Christians seek to fulfill 1 John 4:7-11 from a variety of other motives - fear, obligation, duty, self-righteousness/piety, etc. - and when they do, they don't actually obey John's commands in the passage, nor does God accept such love, as Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. According to Paul, if we attempt to love our neighbor apart from a pre-existing love for God that motivates our words (vs. 1), guides our knowledge (vs. 2), and prompts our self-sacrifice (vs. 3), such attempts are, Paul wrote, spiritually useless ("profits me nothing").
A man who approaches a godly woman (who, being godly, understands these things well) who himself is ignorant of the love-motive for Christian living will be of little interest to her. Such a man doesn't understand one of the most basic and essential features of what it is to know and walk with God. My advice to you in my first post to this thread was simply not to be such a man (if you want to marry a godly woman).
I didn't say it was "rocket science," nor did I imply that it was.
How, exactly, does the Holy Spirit "inspire" obedience in a Christian person? Since its not "rocket science," I'm sure you'll know very well what it is to "walk in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16) and will have no problem describing from God's word how you do so every day.
How is it that "God actually produces the work"? What does this mean, exactly? How do you know when it's God doing so and not just your own fleshly attempts to do His work for Him? Since it's "quite easy," please explain how you know that what you do as a child of God is not just your efforts to be godly for God but is truly the work of the Spirit within you.
What do you mean by "not pressing override"?
In my experience discipling Christian men of various ages and experience, this area of "Who is doing what?" and "How do I know the difference between fleshly effort and the work of the Spirit?" is, among them, the most confused area, by far. So, I'll be pleasantly surprised if you actually understand well what it is to live concretely in a synthesis of Philippians 2:13 and James 1:22-23.
This is a Strawman of what I wrote.
In any case, you do have to have certain things in place prior to, and giving rise, to your obedience to God. Again, just read 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. Love, though, is only one of several non-negotiables of the faith that HAVE to exist in the believer's life in order for him/her to properly know, enjoy and please God. Do you know what the Bible says the other non-negotiables are? Your remark above strongly suggests you don't.
I've never said in anything that I wrote that obedience to God is "just based off of love." But love of God is essential to knowing and walking with Him, being the First and Great Commandment. Inasmuch as such love is essential, there can be no truly God-pleasing obedience to Him while in neglect of the First and Great Commandment.
The fear of God as wrathful Judge has its place in bringing sinners to repentance and faith in Christ. But such fear has no place in the life of a child of God, as the apostle John pointed out in 1 John 4:16-19.
Continued below.
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Tenchi
Member
??? Yes, it most certainly does. I know in this modern age, where young people are constantly encouraged in secular culture to think of mature adults as foolish, irrelevant and/or dangerous (and some of them are), that it's likely a reflex to imagine that you can, as a young person, have a better understanding of how to walk with God than one who has done so for fifty years but this is, I'm afraid, not reality.
Age, by itself, doesn't confer wisdom or godliness, of course. But age tempered by decades of God's transforming work can produce spiritual maturity of a sort that youth, however desirous of God, simply cannot understand.
Yes, so do I. See above.
But I also know aged people who've walked well with God for many decades whose understanding of God and spiritual living is simply beyond what any twenty-something who loves God wholeheartedly can fathom. There's no getting around time-in with God, I'm afraid; no shortcuts, no leap-frogging over the decades of spiritual training only God can do with a person to sudden, full, deep spiritual maturity. But, oh, how young people want to imagine that there is! How eager they are to think they can match in a few months or a few years a lifetime of knowing and walking with God.
??? Know everything? Goodness, I've never said this. Spiritually-speaking, at least, I know more than you, having had a much lengthier and deeper experience of God than you, but this doesn't equate to me knowing everything. There are enormous swathes of knowledge about which I know nothing. I couldn't, for example, hop onto a skateboard like my nephew does and tear about with the same ease and skill he is capable of. I don't have a clue how to do so. I once watched a six-year-old girl playing the piano in a way far beyond what I can understand or even begin to replicate. So, no, I don't think, nor have I ever said, that I "know everything."
I also don't think being young automatically means one is in error. But, in general, the person who has worked at something for decades, learning, and experiencing, and developing through that time is going to be much superior in their knowledge, understanding and abilities to the one who's just beginning the same process. It's not pride or vanity to say so, just the plain and inevitable fact of the matter that was once commonly understood in the past but, unfortunately, is often being denied today, and so, requires stating.
And so, in the business of walking with God, my fifty years of doing so with Him, puts me a long way further down the road with God than you. It is no more prideful to observe this than it is for a thirty year old to observe to an eight-year-old who challenges him to a fight that he is bigger, stronger, and faster than the eight-year-old.
But this is itself a Strawman of my words. I've never once written, or implied, that "age equals spiritual maturity." See above.
As I already said, this response here demonstrates how much in need of what I've pointed out from God's word that you actually are. But it is in the nature of being young to think those older and wiser than you are utter fools. Time will alter this view - especially when, as an older man, you encounter the same sort of young buck that you are now, who tells you to get bent when you offer him God's Truth.
The content of my "theological rant" is vital to finding and securing in marriage a godly woman, which I explained to you in my first post to this thread. So my remarks weren't irrelevant; they were simply beyond where you're at right now, which I hope your studies at Biola will help to change.
No, it's what is plainly evident in Scripture.
But this is all your Strawman version of what I wrote. As such, I have no obligation to defend myself against your charge that your Strawman is "eisegesis of Scripture" and "self-idolatry."
Ah. Interesting. I refer you again to 1 John 4:16-19, Matthew 22:36-38 and 1 Corinthians 13:1-3. Actually, I'll post them here for you:
Matthew 22:36-38
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
1 John 4:16-19
16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
19 We love because he first loved us.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Together, these passages absolutely rule out fear of God as an acceptable motive for obedience to Him. And by "fear," I mean a craven fear of God as wrathful Judge and Punisher of sin, not merely an awe-filled respect/reverence for Him.
You see, obeying God out of a fear of Him as a dangerous Agent of Justice who punishes the sinful is a self-centered motive for obedience to Him. This motive might serve as provocation to a lost person to seek reconciliation to God through Jesus but, as the Gospel is properly understood, it ought to be abandoned in favor of love for God. The fear-motive is focused upon avoiding personal harm, you see, upon keeping oneself safe from Him, not upon God and demonstrating one's love for Him. And so, God will not accept this self-centered reason for obedience to His commands.
No, just take my words as I've given them. And see above.
This quotation is well in keeping with your youthfulness. I once thought in a similar way.
"Conquering" spiritually doesn't work this way, though I understand you can't help but be a product of the post-modern culture in which you live. There is no conquering except according to God's prescription. Don't continue to be in error about what that prescription is. You'll not only miss out on genuine fellowship with God, but exclude yourself from the interest of the increasingly few godly women that there are in the world.
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Thank you for realizing that, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered asking you for a Biblical response. And I personally don't see combativeness as the same thing as trying to get to the truth, if I didn't want the truth I wouldn't be asking you to provide it.
That would be true, and it is true, but you have to also factor in, 1 John 4:19-21. This is not PEMDAS or order of operations, when you start loving God it automatically transfers to loving people. There is no period in time when you love God and then after you love God at a later point you love people.
No disagreement
Ohhhhhhh, Ok now I see why you started talking about motives for loving God. I didn't connect the dots I thought you were talking about something separate
Oh yes indeed. The Greek phrase for "Walk in the Spirit" is peripateo pneuma. The word peripateō for "Walk" means to align oneself with, be in alignment with, conduct or regulate one's life with" then pnuema is "in the Spirit", which means the Holy Spirit.
According to Galatians 5:22, in order for me to walk in the spirit I need to surrender myself and surrender my will and submit to God so that he can teach me the ways of regulating my life according to his Spirit. When I feel my flesh trying to go out of line, that's when I rely on God's strength to pull me back in line.
It's sort of like a military phrase, when the voice of God is telling me to avoid some sinful path, I put my body in feelings in subjection to the order of Christ.
I guess I can be a bit vulnerable if you truly want to personal example. What used to be one of the main temptations of my flesh is soft p**n, I still get various urges every now and then. And it doesn't help that even in basic advertising at the store or commercials to movies, they sometimes give erotic imagery which then triggers back the memories.
I know I will have fallen out of alignment with the work of the spirit, just like the gears in a car falling out of alignment and malfunctioning the vehicle, if I return back to my vomit. But just like Paul says, I discipline my body in accordance to the permanent work of the spirit which I will discuss below.
Alrighty cool, I don't know if you will like my answer but it's still an answer. And I guess you're coming about you being surprised if I can say something about this shows how low, you think of me but nevertheless.
There are three main differences.
One, The Spirits way produces permenance
Two, The Spirits way produces proper purpose.
Three, The Spirits way produces power.
- Permenance
Ecclesiastes 3:14 NASB1995 (my fav version)
I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.
The main difference between when I was working on my own salvation my way, versus guy doing it was that it didn't last. I always kept going back a lot of times I even have plans on going back. I never was at a place where I was like this is where I'm at and I'm never turning back. When God steps into the equation there is no turning back. Yes I will fall even if it's seven times but I will get right back up, one thing is for sure, if God does it I can never put my hand on the plow and look back.
Proper Purpose
Colossians 3:17
"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him"
It is easy for atheists to do some of what God commands. There are atheists that don't lie, don't steal, waited until marriage, who never killed anyone. There may be even some atheist who sacrifice things they want for the sake of others, heck, some of them even advocate for Christianity while not taking it on for themselves.
As Voddie Baucham said, "we need to have the right indicatives in order to do the imperative of God". That indicative based on Colossians 3:17, is for the glory of God, and His glory alone. So it's doing righteousness for the purpose of righteousness, for the glory of the King of righteousness.
Power
Zechariah 4:6 (and I like Tasha Cobbs song of it)
"So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the LORD Almighty."
The reason the Lord said this to Zerubbabel was to show that human power couldn't accomplish what God was about to do. And I like how God inspired Zechariah to use, El Shaddai which is the Hebrew for the Lord Almighty. Basically showing that God is all powerful, and he is the only one that can accomplish true results. Just like it also says in Matthew 7 you will know a tree by the fruit it bears, so if I'm producing the fruit of the Spirit, and the real one and not a counterfeit, it should be visible to those around me. Now am I perfect at that absolutely not, I could do a lot of things I regret on this forum, let alone real life, but that is how it is.
Not using my free will against God to willfully disobey.
Idk f you're actually asking me or you're casting a judgement.
Hence why I shared in my testimony that and my original feelings to please God that's how I started off. But I would have never gotten to the right place, had I not start the obedience process at all. I'm telling you I wasn't, no of course as you said I was still in sin at that moment, but my current condition is not the same then when I was still trying to figure stuff out, when I shouldn't have been trying to figure anything out.
And that's what it did it brought me as a sinner to knowledge of the Savior. That's what I am referring to. And it was also useful for when I was backsliding and being lukewarm before I truly surrendered.
Well for one you have no scripturally basis to back up that, and two it is actually possible.
I have personal experience, basic logic, and Scripture to back up that.
Experience, at a visiting church I was at they were putting on a gala and I saw a lot of familiar faces there. There was this one lady who for some reason I was always turned off by. So at this event, she went boasting and bragging about living a life from where she was serving the lord for over 40 years. Impressive right? When the gala was almost over, she asked me to put some stuff in her car for her cuz we were packing up, no problem. I go to her car and open the trunk, and behold, I could have passed out from how strong the stench of weed was in her car, and she's the only one driving it.
Draw your own conclusions.
Logic
Secondly, time doesn't equate experience. Aaron Rodgers has been in the NFL for about 2 decades, but surprisingly, when you look at the majority of sports analysts top 5 quarterback, he is nowhere to be found. The fact the number one quarterback has only been in the game for 6 years.
What's the difference? Speed of growth.
You can say, "I've been on this road for 6 hours" and sound super impressive. That's until we know you've been crawling the whole time.
Then you meet someone who's been on the road for 45 minutes, and remember it's all to the same destination. But they're in a Porsche and covered far much more distance than the one who crawled. (Dr. Tony Evans used this example too).
So the length you been on the road doesn't really matter, it's more of the speed at which you grow. We can both be planted and rootef in Christ, but just because you've been in the ground for 40 years, and I haven't even reached 4 yet, if (and I mean IF) I can outgrow you in due time.
Scripture:
Read Matthew 20:1-16.
But again your statement may be valid for you, but it's not all encompassing. And you can't biblically prove that beyond your conjecture. If you're going based off of your personal experience, I have a different ones.
I remember my very first sermon I did 2 years ago, to this day I still have people at that church I preached at, saying I did more of an excellent job on rightly dividing the Word of Truth then all their ordained ministers who have been in the faith for decades.
You didn't have to go petty and attack the hyperbole. Again you are assuming something in which you have no idea of. You should check out John 3:11. Lengthier, sure, deeper? You have no idea.
I can look at 1 Corinthians 1:27, to know God does just that.
It's also like with a relationship, I'm pretty sure you and your wife both have parents, and your parents have known you all your lives. By basic and logical math I can safely assume that you and your wife have known each other for less time than your parents have known you as their birth child. But it is something about marriage that allows you to know the person even more deeply than their own parents, siblings, cousins, old friends can know them. Levels of intimacy yk?
For your soul sake it really is troubling me that you have this pridefully-seeming attitude towards walks in Christ when you have no idea what I've been through and what I know of and in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm not saying I know more than you, I'm just saying that's possible.
I don't think you really thought I was referring to fear as in a scary feeling.
Conjecture,
You know this is what originally got me started. I bring a genuine question to the forums, and out of nowhere you bring up this thing about youth thinking they know more than older people, when my post had absolutely nothing to do with that. I don't know if you met some other young people in your life that felt like that but don't assume everybody is the same and everything is the same with what you believe.
And I noticed how you seemingly conveniently overlooked 2 Timothy 4:2.
Now really think about that comment again Techni. I have two orientations coming up in 6 days, and on campus job that I'm trying to get, and a lot of family preparations and making a transitional move to college, do you really think that if I thought older people were "utter fools".
Why would I be wasting my time indulging, reading, studying, and asking questions on a form or 70% of people on it are much older than me. I would have way better things to do right? If you would see my contacts in my accountability partners, why are majority of them people in their 30s and 40s that I look up to? If you look at my YouTube history of what theological compositions I watch, why are some of my heroes, like John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, (formerly) Tony Evans, my pastor, Frank Turek, Jeff Durbin, Joe Kirby all people who are significantly older than me? If I truly thought that?
Why would I even waste time talking with you, if I didn't think you had something valuable to bring to the table? Why didn't I just simply call you another fool and call it a day?
Really think about that Techni...
Well then you can't blame the public perception.
If I'm being quite honest right now, and people should know this by now, 99% of the time I'm not asking cuz I don't know, I'm asking cuz I'm looking for other people's opinions and I like to hear what they have to say. I know what next steps to take, I just want to get other people's views on it cuz I like doing that.
You may have more time on the clock, but if anything flaunting your time is a basis to get humiliated if you find someone at a faster pace than you (I'm talking generally not to me specifically).
Paul understood in one single encounter What it took the disciples three years walking with Jesus to understand.
Sir you just implied that with the comment I replied to just above. And another one earlier in that.
We do appreciate the calmer demeanor in the last few posts but this discussion has gone off topic so how about we end this here and get back to the topic of the thread. Let's remember to follow Paul's teaching.
Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient[c] in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Romans 12:10-18 NKJV
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Colossians 3:12-13 NKJV
Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient[c] in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Romans 12:10-18 NKJV
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Colossians 3:12-13 NKJV
Carry_Your_Name
Member
The the topic is still the "search", then go for a search for the meaning of life in God, not a search for the origin of life in a uterus.
In my life experience it isn't about searching because searching makes one look desperate and that is generally an undesirable trait. Make friends first and let nature take its course from there because the best person to fulfill the role of a wife would also be one that is a very good friend.
Tenchi
Member
I'm doing both. It seems to me that you may not know what the "non-negotiables" of walking with God are (which is a judgment I'm making about your knowledge level), but if I'm mistaken, I'd like to know that I am, which you can help me to see by explaining, from God's word, what the "non-negotiables" are.
A man who knows how to walk well with God is a man ready to be married and who will be an enormous blessing to his wife. The corollary to this, of course, is that a man who doesn't know how to walk well with God (because he doesn't know what the non-negotiables of doing so are) will make a miserable husband. And such an ungodly man will have no hope of finding a godly woman, which is the best sort of woman to find. He will not be able to benefit from the leading of the Holy Spirit in his search for a wife nor will he have good spiritual discernment when it comes to assessing the true spiritual character of a prospective wife. Both of these things - leading and discernment - come from God with whom the ungodly man, being ungodly, has halted fellowship.
Well, you see, the First and Great Commandment is the FIRST and GREAT Commandment whether it has stood as such in our experience or not. Anyone who claims to be obeying God but who is neglecting to obey His First and Great commandment - the one that comes before and is above all others - is not actually obeying God. This is what the apostle Paul was getting at in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
No matter what I say, or know, or do - even to the point of martyrdom - if a love (an over-riding positive desire), first for God and then for others, is not my motivation, it's all spiritually useless. It's actually possible, in attempted obedience to God, to give away all I have to the poor and find my charity rejected by God because love for Him wasn't my motive! Even dying for the faith from a motive that is not love for God "gains nothing," as far as God is concerned.
The absence of a love-motive for my "Christian living" at one time meant that most of my living was spurned by God as disobedience to His First and Great Commandment. Though I attended church faithfully and regularly; though I gave tithe, and prayed, and sang hymns and choruses; though I never swore, or drank alcohol, or looked at porn; though I never went to parties, or rock concerts, or watched dirty movies, all the time I was living this way I was in constant disobedience to God's First and Great Commandment. I did all of these things from fear, guilt, obligation and empty piety, not love for God. And, as Paul explained above, God rejected all of it as useless spiritually.
You can be sure, as such a man, I was very poor husband material. I certainly couldn't properly judge the spiritual character of the women who took my interest. And I was ruled by myself, not God, though my life appeared to be subject to Him. Under the surface, where no one could see, I harbored all manner of godless, sinful thoughts, imaginations, desires and motives that were utterly in rebellion to God's will and way. And sometimes, when I thought no one was looking, I'd indulge these dark aspects of my life a bit, acting selfishly and sinfully. Anyway, God had no interest in my "obedience" so long as my heart wasn't truly His, so long as I was acting in a "Christian" way apart from an abiding, root motive of love for Him. And in such a state, locating a truly good - which is to say, godly - woman was impossible. This is true, though, for all young, Christian guys searching for a wife who don't really love God.
"Useful"? God is never a wrathful Judge of His children, though He is a loving Father who will discipline (as opposed to punish) His wayward sons and daughters (Hebrews 12:5-11). Fear of Him as a punishing Judge, then, has no place in motivating the obedience of His children. As Scripture clearly states, our obedience to God begins with an inner condition of the heart and mind (love for God) which is the necessary predicate to all our Christian living.
So, you might have been scared back into line by the thought of God dropping the hammer on you, but this motivation for getting back into line was actually contrary to God's First and Great Commandment, which the apostle John and the apostle both have explained (1 John 4:16-19; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3). God wants us to so desire Him, to so hunger and thirst for fellowship with Him, that we will do any and everything necessary to obtain and preserve our ever-deepening communion with Him. No other motive is strong enough to lead us as consistently and joyfully toward God as the love-motive is; and no other motive is as God-centered as the love-motive is. And so, God will accept no other motive for our obedience to Him. But, boy, we Christians sure try to operate on almost any other motive than this one!
What happens, as far as searching for a wife is concerned, when a single man is in this state of disobedience to God's First and Great Commandment is that he not only cannot be properly led of the Spirit and is unable to use good, spiritual discernment, but he will search for a woman who is like he is. And when he finds her and marries her, their marriage will quickly reflect how little they actually love God; for there is no circumstance like marriage for bringing to the surface who is in control of one's heart, who one really loves. If it isn't God, well, since marriage was designed by God to be anchored in Him, the marriage will be a disaster - as the high rate of divorce these days illustrates.
Continued below.
Tenchi
Member
??? Sure I do.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
What does it mean that there is a growth continuum along which Christians move, as Paul indicates here? Among other things, it means that those at the beginning of that continuum will carry on in a way that indicates where they are: They'll be "children" spiritually, "tossed to and fro by the waves and every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes"; they'll be like the "carnal infants in Christ" that Paul wrote to in 1 Corinthians 3, who were fractious and jealous.; they'll be like those requiring spiritual "milk" rather than "meat," ignorant and so unable to teach others, "laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works" (Hebrews 5:11-13; 6:1-2).
Those who are at the other end of the spectrum, or, at least, much farther along it than the ones described above, will be marked as such by their knowledge and conduct. They won't be "tossed to and fro," they won't be carried about with every wind of doctrine, they won't be "milk drinkers." Instead, they'll be well-grown in Christ, able to teach others what it is to know, and walk in fellowship with, God, stable, knowledgeable in the word and spiritually discerning, daily "walking in the Spirit." (2 Timothy 2:15; Galatians 5:16, 25; Hebrews 5:14,
This growth process takes time. And so, it was almost two decades (17 years) after Paul's conversion that he began his missionary work to the Gentiles throughout Asia Minor that we read of in Acts and in his various epistles.
Galatians 1:15-22
15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.
20 (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!)
21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia.
22 And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ.
Galatians 2:1-2
1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.
2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.
It's very clear to me in God's word that there are "infants in Christ" and "mature adults" in him and that one goes from the former condition to the latter through a process, not an instant. Those who are at the front end of the continuum of spiritual growth do not stand on par in their knowledge or experience with God with those farther along that continuum; they cannot; the fact of the continuum of growth prevents such parity. Just as a baby must grow into adulthood, a new Christian "baby" must grow into spiritual adulthood. This necessarily requires time, and education, and experience that cannot be gained in an instant, or by a couple of years at seminary, or Bible school. God intends we should live consistently and presistently in His truth, you see, not just know about it. And this is where many years are required in spiritual growth.
I'm not sure how this negates what I've observed above from God's word. There are many Christians today who are just like those described in Hebrews 5:11-13 and 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 who have been in the Church for a very long time. This woman appears to be one of them. But their poor conduct demonstrates that, whatever they claim, they have not actually been walking well with God, growing more and more like Christ. Instead, they've remained a spiritual "infant," refusing to become properly spiritually adult in their walk with God. That you've been able to see the incongruity between the woman's claims to spiritual maturity and service and her use of pot, doesn't mean that folk who have been TRULY walking well with God - which this pot-using Christian appears not to have been doing - for long periods don't occupy a place with God that cannot be immediately accessed by a person comparatively new to the faith.
In other words, if I'm, say, a youthful martial artist who has just begun to learn karate and I have a sparring match with a black belt who I thump badly, does this mean I can assume that I'm on par with every black belt in the dojo? Maybe the black belt with whom I just sparred has been ill, or injured, or is returning from a long hiatus from training. Will this be true of all the other black belts in the dojo? No. Some of them may have been training without pause and very hard for many decades and when I spar with them this will come out in how easily and powerfully they thump me, even though I'm much younger and more energetic. These senior karateka will have an understanding of karate that there is no way I can obtain except by the same effort over time.
Well, this is also the case in the Church. Not all the apparent spiritual "black belts" deserve to wear the belt. But some most definitely do. The difference is that the latter have been training long and well with God and the former have not. Those who have "trained" well for, say, six decades will be in a place with God no Christian of a few years, or even ten years, can understand and enjoy.
So, settle in for the long-haul with God and understand that there will be not a few believers who have truly earned their spiritual "black belt" and occupy a place with God only those who've done the same can occupy. These you ought to respect and learn from if you wish to advance well in your training.
Anywhoo, back to the "Search for a wife" question.
Tenchi
Member
Hmmm... Every genuine Christian "drives" the same "vehicle" (the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9-13). Really, the "vehicle" drives them - or he should. And what does it mean to "cover more distance" as a Christian? What is the destination? It seems to me, you can't answer the first question without knowing the answer to the second one.
Too often, the "destination" is accumulated spiritual information and religious activity. But, actually, as far as God is concerned, the "destination" is fellowshipping with Him from a place of loving, trusting, submission to Him. (2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 John 1:3, Revelation 3:20, Matthew 22:36-38, Philippians 3:7-14, etc.) Can one one race along in the "Porsche" of the Holy Spirit to such a destination? I'm not sure this analogy fosters a biblical conception of walking with God. As I said, we don't "drive" the Holy Spirit; he "drives" us; we are the vehicle, he is Driver.
The man who is being "driven" by the Holy Spirit, though, is a man ready to be married. Be such a man!
See above. I've never said that it was only the length of time over which a person has been a believer that puts them in a deeper place with God than a comparitively new believer can occupy.
See above.
I think I did. In my experience, the best way to eradicate unhelpful hyperbole in conversation with others is to point it out. God willing, you'll find out how true this is in marriage, especially.
Well, I've run out of time to address more of your posts. And I see now that I've addressed them out of order. Ah, well.
Know God. Love God. Enjoy God. These are the things that will properly prepare you for a search for a wife and ensure that God will guide you in your search.
The fact that you conveniently ignored the fact that I adequately answered all your questions, which apparently you didn't expect me to be able to do, and also ignored the scripture exposition, logical examples, and proof against your position which I went out of my way to do.
Then gives me thinking are you really trying to have a dialogue about scripture with me, and let iron sharp and iron, or are you just here to uplift your views only.
Well anyway, what about the original question? Since like you asserted we got way off topic from to something that is unrelated.
Edit: I just read the comment that you posted a moment ago, I guess it was nice chatting!
Tenchi
Member
??? But having provided an answer and having provided a soundly biblical one aren't the same. You've done the former, but not the latter.
I'm offering biblical advice and testing your answers and thinking in order to temper and sharpen both. Mostly, though, I'm explaining God's way to locating a truly godly wife and being worthy of such a wife.
Well, here's what I've written to you so far in direct connection to finding a wife:
"In such a condition where love for God, where a deep, over-riding desire for Him is not within you, what good reason do you have to think you'll be attractive to a godly woman in whom such a love does exist? Almost by definition, a godly woman would be one who avoids a man who is not also godly, who does not truly love God. But such a woman is to be prized far above a merely pretty one. Good looks fade over time, but a beautiful (that is, godly) heart and character, just grows more so, as the years pass. And it is such a heart that makes marriage the amazing and wonderful thing God intends it to be.
So, then, my advice to you as a young man searching for a wife is to be a man who loves God, who desires Him, with all of his heart, mind, soul and strength, casting aside anything that hinders or diminishes your pursuit of that desire for your Maker. Such a man cannot help but attract the very best (and sometimes the very worst) of women."
"A man who approaches a godly woman (who, being godly, understands these things well) who himself is ignorant of the love-motive for Christian living will be of little interest to her. Such a man doesn't understand one of the most basic and essential features of what it is to know and walk with God. My advice to you in my first post to this thread was simply not to be such a man (if you want to marry a godly woman)."
"There is no conquering except according to God's prescription. Don't continue to be in error about what that prescription is. You'll not only miss out on genuine fellowship with God, but exclude yourself from the interest of the increasingly few godly women that there are in the world."
"A man who knows how to walk well with God is a man ready to be married and who will be an enormous blessing to his wife. The corollary to this, of course, is that a man who doesn't know how to walk well with God (because he doesn't know what the non-negotiables of doing so are) will make a miserable husband. And such an ungodly man will have no hope of finding a godly woman, which is the best sort of woman to find. He will not be able to benefit from the leading of the Holy Spirit in his search for a wife nor will he have good spiritual discernment when it comes to assessing the true spiritual character of a prospective wife. Both of these things - leading and discernment - come from God with whom the ungodly man, being ungodly, has halted fellowship."
"You can be sure, as such a man, I was very poor husband material. I certainly couldn't properly judge the spiritual character of the women who took my interest. And I was ruled by myself, not God, though my life appeared to be subject to Him. Under the surface, where no one could see, I harbored all manner of godless, sinful thoughts, imaginations, desires and motives that were utterly in rebellion to God's will and way. And sometimes, when I thought no one was looking, I'd indulge these dark aspects of my life a bit, acting selfishly and sinfully. Anyway, God had no interest in my "obedience" so long as my heart wasn't truly His, so long as I was acting in a "Christian" way apart from an abiding, root motive of love for Him. And in such a state, locating a truly good - which is to say, godly - woman was impossible. This is true, though, for all young, Christian guys searching for a wife who don't really love God."
"What happens, as far as searching for a wife is concerned, when a single man is in this state of disobedience to God's First and Great Commandment is that he not only cannot be properly led of the Spirit and is unable to use good, spiritual discernment, but he will search for a woman who is like he is. And when he finds her and marries her, their marriage will quickly reflect how little they actually love God; for there is no circumstance like marriage for bringing to the surface who is in control of one's heart, who one really loves. If it isn't God, well, since marriage was designed by God to be anchored in Him, the marriage will be a disaster - as the high rate of divorce these days illustrates."
As you can see, I haven't been ignoring your question. It seems in your desire to contend with me, you've gone a bit blind to my remarks dealing directly with your question about searching for a wife.
the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim that what I gave you is unbiblical. Other than that it's just your conjecture, and it's in danger of heresy. Calling something that is of scripture, not of scripture, is almost blasphemous. Definitely heretical. The need to be right isn't worth it.
And what does accusing mean of thinking that older people are utter fools have anything to do with it?
I already acknowledged that, but just like you've been admitted yourself, and I've been trying to figure out why you deviated into a topic that no one was caring about until you brought it up here:
The question I asked had nothing to do with age or whatever you were trying to prove.
Nowhere in Scripture does it equate your age in the faith as a way of your opinion being more valid. I gave you large amounts of scripture and common Sense to refute that, what you have yet to address.
Instead of giving credit and humility to Christ Jesus for his mercy and Grace with for the past 50 years (unless that one is perfect and sinless), take credit for His work on to their own personal resume. And narrowing down the infinite God to something so powerless that he is contained by time. Which is a human construct.
God who is beyond time is incapable of giving the same spiritual wisdom knowledge devotion and experience to someone who so happened to be born earlier than someone else.
Since God is constrained by time, right?
I'm not going to repeat everything that was ignored, you're just going to have to look at it for yourself.
But instead of accusing me of pseudocombativeness, why are you skipping over the parts of my messages that directly destroy the premise of your theology? I'm trying to figure out if you're here to give me Scripture or if you just want to be right, and not being right, especially in the face of an "unqualified" person like me is unacceptable?
Because with the former then there is no reason to skip or ignore parts that destroy your ideology, like the Republicans and Democrats do they point out the fault they think in the other side and try to hide their own. But if it's the latter then it totally makes sense. No judgement if it is the latter.
Also in obedience to the moderators, you can just send me a PM, if you're going to reply about the other stuff.
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