Bible Study Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible

[stovebolts]

Agreed. I spoke to this in post 78.

If we are correct, then 58:3 does not speak to children going to hell. Instead, it speaks to generational sin.
Israelites taught their children Torah as part of their schooling and they would have Torah memorized. As they grew up, they would be without excuse. This seems to agree with Deuteronomy 1:39.
Saul understood the wrong he was doing, but he choose not to change. Parenting is some pretty serious stuff.

 

[GodsGrace]

If we are correct, then 58:3 does not speak to children going to hell. Instead, it speaks to generational sin.
Israelites taught their children Torah as part of their schooling and they would have Torah memorized. As they grew up, they would be without excuse. This seems to agree with Deuteronomy 1:39.

It's speaking about leaders and government, governing authorities.

The ones who opposed David were considered to be evil. It's speaking about THEM...they were wicked from the start...from their mother's womb. It says they went astray as soon as they were born. This is what for_his_glory is saying.

Generational sin is the effect of a sin that is passed down to the next generation. Somewhere in the O.T. it says that God passes this effect down for 4 generations.

What I believe is that we can't take some verses, go against everything else we know about God, and make a belief out of it. I mean, the O.P. can believe as she wishes...but I just don't think we can be very resolved over this.

Before Augustine, it was not believed that babies went to hell. It was AFTER him that this idea came into being.
If those of the times...who had minds far superior to mine knew this...then I say they were right and Augustine just started a lot of problems.

The CC believes that babies go to heaven but will not see God. It's called the beatific vision or something...can't remember.

I do stand firm that babies cannot go to hell.

 

[for_his_glory]

just jumping in here...i got very excited when i saw that reba had posted....

1 Corinthians 2:10-12

I lean Calvinist...but only because, as a Christian, I see Hell as an expression of God's justice and overall character and plan for humanity. so....

to paraphrase a calvinist text I read, its not a wonder that so many end up in Hell, its a miracle that God has seen fit to save The Elect. remember...Protestant Christianity 101: we are all born with the fallen, sin nature, naturally bent away from God, and only Jesus Himself can "fix" that situation.

so...I don't think Scripture speaks to an age of accountability, per se. I also think that God is merciful. In my own life, I think my inability (refusal? both?) to grow up on time and on schedule might explain some of the extreme grace God has shown me, especially since Jesus saved (is saving, will save) me. and...

I hate to come across as one of "those" Calvinists..."the frozen chosen," I believe is the catch phrase....but: Exodus 33:19 comes to mind for --all-- of mankind, of --all-- ages, maturity levels, mental states, etc.

Only God knows who are His own even from birth.

 

[WIP]

Salvation is by grace through faith...
Good.

But what about babies?
I always believed babies go to be with God.
It's a horrifying thought that they might not.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV

Sometimes I think we worry about things that are better left in God's hands.

“Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." Matthew 6:25-34 NKJV

I believe the above Scriptures are far more reaching than just worrying about our life, clothing, or food. It is about worrying in general including the fate of infant children. But, we are instructed to teach children the ways of God.

Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NKJV

Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord. Ephesians 6:4 NKJV

“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

Only God knows who are His own even from birth.

I'm tempted to get into open theism,,,but it would become too complicated.

Clear my mind....
How is God knowing who will be His reconciled with our free will which the baby did not get a chance to use yet?

You know...
God's sovereignty vs. Free Will

 

[GodsGrace]

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV

Sometimes I think we worry about things that are better left in God's hands.

“Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." Matthew 6:25-34 NKJV

I believe the above Scriptures are far more reaching than just worrying about our life, clothing, or food. It is about worrying in general including the fate of infant children. But, we are instructed to teach children the ways of God.

Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 NKJV

Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord. Ephesians 6:4 NKJV

“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7 NKJV

I agree!
This is why this never entered my mind and the thought is disturbing to me.

But now that it's been brought up...
I will be thinking about this.
Thinking may be one of my downfalls...
or my salvation...don't know.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

If I might jump in and go ahead and share my own thoughts about this. Idk a lot of scripture admittingly but Hell is a place for those who reject Christ,.. so how can a baby reject Christ if he or she doesn't even know how to wipe themselves for goodness sakes!? Of course I believe that babies go to Heaven! They can't sin and they don't even know what sin is or how to repent from it just like animals and I do believe that we will see Fido and Fluffy in Heaven someday as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

If I might jump in and go ahead and share my own thoughts about this. Idk a lot of scripture admittingly but Hell is a place for those who reject Christ,.. so how can a baby reject Christ if he or she doesn't even know how to wipe themselves for goodness sakes!? Of course I believe that babies go to Heaven! They can't sin and they don't even know what sin is or how to repent from it just like animals and I do believe that we will see Fido and Fluffy in Heaven someday as well.

Great point! (about rejecting Christ)

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Great point! (about rejecting Christ)

Thanks, but I saw an alert about the fact that you liked my post but it isn't showing up for some strange reason. Anyway, in order to sin you have to know right from wrong because sin isn't sin unless you know that you're doing something that you shouldn't. Or not doing something that you should.

 

[WIP]

If I might jump in and go ahead and share my own thoughts about this. Idk a lot of scripture admittingly but Hell is a place for those who reject Christ,.. so how can a baby reject Christ if he or she doesn't even know how to wipe themselves for goodness sakes!? Of course I believe that babies go to Heaven! They can't sin and they don't even know what sin is or how to repent from it just like animals and I do believe that we will see Fido and Fluffy in Heaven someday as well.

Can you find in Scripture where it says that we are born accepting Christ? I will post here where it does suggest the opposite to be true, that our task is to accept Christ.

Throughout all Scripture the focus is on accepting, believing, and trusting. Why is that? I submit that it is because we start out not believing. Here's the Scripture that seems to suggest that we start out in unbelief.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

 

[for_his_glory]

I too quickly discovered that this was from David. It originates from when David went into the cave where Saul was sleeping.

David always writes about his experiences. In regard to this one,King Saul is doing evil in God's Kingdom. In this way, I do see a connection with the parable of the tares because the same question would be asked. Why is there evil in God's kingdom.

What do we know about Saul, and what do we know about David or their parents?

Not sure where you are going with this as what does Saul and David and their parents have to do with their being no scripture about the age of accountability?

We know that Saul lost his right to be king over Israel for wickedness was found in Him and he never repented of his transgressions aainst God's commands, and king David even though he was of the Lord messed up at times, but always came back to God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks, but I saw an alert about the fact that you liked my post but it isn't showing up for some strange reason. Anyway, in order to sin you have to know right from wrong because sin isn't sin unless you know that you're doing something that you shouldn't. Or not doing something that you should.

Tried again with the Like.
And Amen to everything you posted above.

 

[GodsGrace]

Can you find in Scripture where it says that we are born accepting Christ? I will post here where it does suggest the opposite to be true, that our task is to accept Christ.

Throughout all Scripture the focus is on accepting, believing, and trusting. Why is that? I submit that it is because we start out not believing. Here's the Scripture that seems to suggest that we start out in unbelief.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

HeIsRisen2018 will speak for herself...
But I believe she and you are saying the same thing....
I hope she replies...

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Can you find in Scripture where it says that we are born accepting Christ? I will post here where it does suggest the opposite to be true, that our task is to accept Christ.

Throughout all Scripture the focus is on accepting, believing, and trusting. Why is that? I submit that it is because we start out not believing. Here's the Scripture that seems to suggest that we start out in unbelief.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

Umm,.. where in my post did I say that we are born accepting Christ?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

HeIsRisen2018 will speak for herself...
But I believe she and you are saying the same thing....
I hope she replies...

Lol! I literally just did.

 

[WIP]

Can you find in Scripture where it says that we are born accepting Christ? I will post here where it does suggest the opposite to be true, that our task is to accept Christ.

Throughout all Scripture the focus is on accepting, believing, and trusting. Why is that? I submit that it is because we start out not believing. Here's the Scripture that seems to suggest that we start out in unbelief.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

Here's more.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:14-17 NKJV

 

[stovebolts]

Not sure where you are going with this as what does Saul and David and their parents have to do with their being no scripture about the age of accountability?

We know that Saul lost his right to be king over Israel for wickedness was found in Him and he never repented of his transgressions aainst God's commands, and king David even though he was of the Lord messed up at times, but always came back to God.

We were discussing two separate topics.

1. Age of accountability
2. Infants going to hell.

You used Psalm 58:3 to affirm infants went to hell.

My reply was not directly about the age of accountability, but about how I understood 58:3.

 

[WIP]

Umm,.. where in my post did I say that we are born accepting Christ?

You implied it when you said a baby can't reject Christ. If you don't reject Him you accept Him for Jesus did say, "For whoever is not against us is for us." Mark 9:40 NIV

 

[stovebolts]

WIP
An infant cannot believe in what it does not know or understand.
Are you saying only those who believe are saved which means all infants, even those aborted are in hell?

 

[reba]

time for me to move on ... This thread clearly shows who would rather place their Salvation on a human action then those who are saved by Grace.