Bible Study Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible

[dianegcook]

Wasn't it JLB, and other speaking of the tares?

Matt.13:38-40
But the tares are the children of the wicked one?

And I respect your decision..

 

[stovebolts]

Huh

Stories with Intent

Stories with Intent offers pastors and students an accessible and comprehensive guide to Jesus' parables. Klyne Snodgrass explores in vivid detail the context in which these stories were told, the purpose they had in Jesus' message, and the ways they have been interpreted by the church and...

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Snodgrass does extensive exegesis on the Parables. He discusses at length the different interpretations and backs his work through exhaustive historical references through differing exegetical disciplines.

 

[for_his_glory]

The shape and form 58:3 is taking on for me is this. David is best friends with Saul's son and David has done nothing but good to Saul. However, Saul is bent on killing David out of jelousy and fear. Saul knows that he did not keep God's commandments and David will take his place.

In verse 3, David recognised that Saul is in part a product of his upbringing. It goes in line with generational sin where the parents instill the wrong moral character into their children that they themselves posses.

As per your other post about the parents of Saul and David I've been thinking about that and Kish being the father of Saul came from the tribe of Benjamin and David's father Jesse came from the tribe of Judah. Both Saul and David were brought up by Godly fathers, but Saul chose to walk away from God, but in David's defense he always turned back to God when he messed up.

John 9:1-3 comes to mind that he nor his parents sinned, but was born blind until Jesus healed him to show others the sovereignty of God. I also believe God's sovereignty was also displayed with the first born of Egypt that He commanded to be killed and to all the wicked that were estranged from the womb that died.

 

[stovebolts]

Wasn't it JLB, and other speaking of the tares?

Matt.13:38-40
But the tares are the children of the wicked one?

That doesn't necessarily mean he is pushing serpent seed. The Parable answers the question, How can we be in the Kingdom of God if Evil is still present.

 

[stovebolts]

As per your other post about the parents of Saul and David I've been thinking about that and Kish being the father of Saul came from the tribe of Benjamin and David's father Jesse came from the tribe of Judah. Both Saul and David were brought up by Godly fathers, but Saul chose to walk away from God, but in David's defense he always turned back to God when he messed up.

John 9:1-3 comes to mind that he nor his parents sinned, but was born blind until Jesus healed him to show others the sovereignty of God. I also believe God's sovereignty was also displayed with the first born of Egypt that He commanded to be killed and to all the wicked that were estranged from the womb that died.

We can discuss Exodus in a bit. The Psalm we are reading indicates David is writing of his experience with Saul when Saul was after David to kill him. The story goes Saul was sleeping in a cave, and David enters, but does not kill Saul. I suspect you are familiar with this story.
If this is true, David is writing about Saul in verse 3 or at least Saul is catagorized in verse 3

 

[ezra]

this is bad doctrine to say a infant could go to hell. i really dont care what who says about the age thing. there has come a time in anyone life child or adult. they must realize they are lost . a infant even a young child does not understand .the first church i was pastor at a 7 year old girl came to me after sunday school asking if i could help get her saved i talked with her and told her to listen to the visiting preacher.. when he gave the altar call go up and talk to jesus tell him what you want . she did and i baptized her if it was not for using hard drive space up on the forum.. i would post the picture.. my point is it depends on the child i have heard of 6 year old being saved.. if a child is raised in church with a good christian home.. i can see age 6 being saved but i will stand infants little children do not go to hell . that does not equate to mercy and grace

 

[stovebolts]

ezra
1. Through the generous donation from our members, I was able to purchase more resources. Next time you post a photo, thank a supporter.

2. While I agree with your post, we need to accept what the Bible has to say on the matter.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm tempted to get into open theism,,,but it would become too complicated.

Clear my mind....
How is God knowing who will be His reconciled with our free will which the baby did not get a chance to use yet?

You know...
God's sovereignty vs. Free Will

Proverbs 3:5, 6 we are to trust in the Lord and allow Him to guide our path. We could never fully understand the ways of God.

God has total sovereign control over everything in heaven and earth as His will be done regardless of our freewill. Only God knows the future of everyone that is born. We exercise free will to either choose God or be separated from Him and we are held accountable for our actions. The fact is that God chooses us as we do not choose Him as He calls all to come to Him because He first loved us before we loved Him, 1 John 4:19; John 15:16. Not every one will answer His call or trust in Him.

Some are just wicked and estranged from the womb and will never come to the Lord.

 

[ezra]

what the Bible has to say on the matter.

ok lets go with king David after his child was took... 2 Samuel 11 7 And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord.

chapter 12 :23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again?< I shall go to him>, but he shall not return to me Romans 9: 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) i will quit reading my bible and stop preaching if God sends infants and young children to hell where does those who are born mentally handicapped that lives to be adults stand? they have no knowledge ..my God does not send Children to hell..

 

[ezra]

Proverbs 3:5, 6 we are to trust in the Lord and allow Him to guide our path. We could never fully understand the ways of God.

God has total sovereign control over everything in heaven and earth as His will be done regardless of our freewill. Only God knows the future of everyone that is born. We exercise free will to either choose God or be separated from Him and we are held accountable for our actions. The fact is that God chooses us as we do not choose Him as He calls all to come to Him because He first loved us before we loved Him, 1 John 4:19; John 15:16. Not every one will answer His call or trust in Him.

Some are just wicked and estranged from the womb and will never come to the Lord.

i know you say your not calvinist and i believe you..but your getting into Calvinism doctrine i been through this in carm and this the some the same scriptures they use

 

[for_his_glory]

We were discussing two separate topics.

1. Age of accountability
2. Infants going to hell.

You used Psalm 58:3 to affirm infants went to hell.

My reply was not directly about the age of accountability, but about how I understood 58:3.

OK, thank you for clarifying this.

 

[stovebolts]

OK, thank you for clarifying this.

No problem.
The preferred method of interpretations I use is as follows.
1. Proper exegesis. This starts with
a. context. Who, what, why.
B. Textual. What do the words mean, what type of writing is this.
C. Historical. What were the cultural norms.
Redaction
This means you do a proper exegesis of the text. If two separate passages intertwine exegeticaly, it is safe to combine them.

This discipline creates a more stable theology.

 

[for_his_glory]

i know you say your not calvinist and i believe you..but your getting into Calvinism doctrine i been through this in carm and this the some the same scriptures they use

Not sure what carm is, but everything I present is straight from scripture and no websites are involved except to find a certain scripture I need, but not their commentary on it.

 

[for_his_glory]

No problem.
The preferred method of interpretations I use is as follows.
1. Proper exegesis. This starts with
a. context. Who, what, why.
B. Textual. What do the words mean, what type of writing is this.
C. Historical. What were the cultural norms.
Redaction
This means you do a proper exegesis of the text. If two separate passages intertwine exegeticaly, it is safe to combine them.

This discipline creates a more stable theology.

This is my preferred method also and I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take all the scriptures given and study them for themselves and allow the Holy Spirit teach them. To many times the doctrine of a particular denomination/non-denomination ways heavier on a persons understanding than actually getting into the scriptures for themselves as I was guilty of that at one time as I learned it was a spirit of religion and not the Spirit of God.

 

[stovebolts]

This is my preferred method also and I never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take all the scriptures given and study them for themselves and allow the Holy Spirit teach them. To many times the doctrine of a particular denomination/non-denomination ways heavier on a persons understanding than actually getting into the scriptures for themselves as I was guilty of that at one time as I learned it was a spirit of religion and not the Spirit of God.

And this is but one reason I like studying with you.
Looking at verse 3 within it's context, what do you believe is the cause?

 

[for_his_glory]

You have to understand the narrative. These folks just came out of Egypt and had broken covenant, yet God takes them back only for them to reject Him even after receiving Torah.
These kids were given 20 years to learn good from evil (Torah) and enter the promised land. Where their parents perished in the wilderness. They were not held accountable for their parents sin and were given enough time to understand good and evil (Torah).

I do understand the narrative. What I was saying about Deuteronomy 1:39 was in response that I didn't think this was so much a verse on the age of accountability, but that these children were brought up on the teachings of the Torah compared to those children that never even knew there was the Torah or even a loving God for that matter.

 

[for_his_glory]

Wasn't it JLB, and other speaking of the tares?

Matt.13:38-40
But the tares are the children of the wicked one?

Yes, the tares are the wicked ones as the seeds (word) they received are the doctrines of devils, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2.

 

[for_his_glory]

And this is but one reason I like studying with you.
Looking at verse 3 within it's context, what do you believe is the cause?

The wicked go astray from the womb, not before the womb as not yet being born, but still in their mothers belly, because even at birth they are fed doctrines of devils. Even paganism has verbal story back in the Biblical days and today books for children that are read to them from birth.

 

[for_his_glory]

We can discuss Exodus in a bit. The Psalm we are reading indicates David is writing of his experience with Saul when Saul was after David to kill him. The story goes Saul was sleeping in a cave, and David enters, but does not kill Saul. I suspect you are familiar with this story.
If this is true, David is writing about Saul in verse 3 or at least Saul is catagorized in verse 3

You may have a point here that I never realized as in vs. 1, 2 David is addressing those who have the responsibility to judge fairly as the word congregation means rulers or judges in this verse, but accuses them of being unfair as even they speak righteousness, but in their hearts work wickedness like Saul did.

Vs. 3-5 these judges who work wickedness in their hearts are of evil from birth as they choose to go astray They are likened to snakes that refuse to hear the voice of charmers. In other words they refuse to hear the words of God.

It's getting late and I've been in this topic all day and my mind is a little fried right now and my body needs some sleep. Will pick this up tomorrow afternoon.

 

[dianegcook]

Yes, the tares are the wicked ones as the seeds (word) they received are the doctrines of devils, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2.

Yes