Allah is not the God of Abraham

[JudaicChristian]

If I am not mistaken it said in the Quran “133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."


“Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)." This line draw my attention because the name of Ismail is mentioned here. As at known from Bible Ismail was the son of Abraham and Hagar (she was Sarah`s servant and she was from a pagan nation). Ismail was not a child of promise, Isaac was a child of promise. And I do not remember that somewhere in the Bible it was said “God of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac†but “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob†(the patriarchs).

It is possible to make an assumption that sons of Ismail were ancestries of Arab people and those people who later became Muslims. Moreover God promised to make a great people from sons of Ismail.

And maybe due to this reason it said in the Quran that “Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, ……â€

(I am Christian and believe in Trinity, and in Salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ)

Did you take the time to read through this thread to see what I wrote?

 

[Ahuli]

If God's personal name had not been removed from scriptures you would see that "The Lord" is Yahwah.

Just a couple of questions for you. Where is it 'evidenced' that 'God' had a 'personal name?' Where is it 'evidenced' that 'God' is a 'person'? Where is the 'evidence' that 'God' can even be fully comprehended in our 'worldly' terms? From what I can see the only 'image' or 'shadow' we have is the 'fullness of God' in Jesus. Doesn't all descriptions of 'God' come from 'man' making them? So really nothing more than our 'perception' of 'God'.

You said,

"Because Mohammad was not a prophet, he did not know the name of the God of Abraham."

Do you also realize that the Qur'an was assembled and written after Muhammed's death making it subject to the translators 'interpretations'? What 'evidence' makes you think Muhammed is not a prophet?

I base my opinions on the evidence I see. First of all, the legacy the man himself left behind and how it is implemented by his followers.
BTW, I use the Latin name for him, Mahomet, because it is a uniform way of spelling. Muslims spell it several different ways, and I cannot be sure which is the right way. Latin makes that moot.

 

[Ahuli]

It is possible to make an assumption that sons of Ismail were ancestries of Arab people and those people who later became Muslims. Moreover God promised to make a great people from sons of Ismail.

(I am Christian and believe in Trinity, and in Salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ)

That is truly an assumption. Or, a Muslim tradition based on ... what?

God's promise to Ishmael needed him to cooperate to make it come true. I see no evidence that he did.

 

[Ahuli]

I think it presumptuous of non -Arabic people trying to correct Arab Christians who have a 2,000 year history with Christianity, that they cannot use the word for God in Arabic. I mean paleese! :o

The word "God" is generic. Islam has a generic god. He has a series of descriptions, none of which are a name.

 

[JudaicChristian]

I think it presumptuous of non -Arabic people trying to correct Arab Christians who have a 2,000 year history with Christianity, that they cannot use the word for God in Arabic. I mean paleese! :o

The word "God" is generic. Islam has a generic god. He has a series of descriptions, none of which are a name.

Why do I keep getting the feeling that everyone is voicing their opinion without having read my post. If you will take the time to brows through this thread you will find some interesting subjects. perhaps I should repost as quotes.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Allah was worshipped as a pagan god long before Mohammad lived. That is why Mohammad said: "You already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe he is the only god."[/list]

• Exodus 6
  
  2. Elohiym said to Moses, "I’m Yahwah. 3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as IL/God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make known to them.

[/size]

:yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

There are many gods, real or imagined. The word "god" is not a name of anyone, but a title. Like I said before: "Allah was worshipped as a pagan god long before Mohammad lived. That is why Mohammad said: "You already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe he is the only god." Before the name of God was cursed by the Arabs, He was also known to them as Yahwah, the same name the Jews know Him by. Did you read the other post I wrote?

:yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

Everyone knows that Islamist believe that Allah is the God of Abraham. But is that the truth? How can that be the truth when Allah was worshipped as a Pagan god by the Arabs, long before Mohammad was born. The proof is cut into stone. The Moabite Stone, when the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah.

:yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

Dealing with Ahmed Deedat and the Mullahs who claim that Allah can be found in the Bible. If their claim is true, then we come to a grinding halt, and, as you will see later, Elohim is in big trouble if Allah is another name for the God of the Bible. Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, What is His Name? (What is His Name, Ahmed Deedat) On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic. It is a very clever list. He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree. (Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.) The "EL" prefix may have been included in the name Elah by ungodly rebellious Jews because certain oak trees were used for worship of EL, which Elohim hated. Deedat's claim would be like saying that "Isle," "aisle," and "I'LL" are all geographical terms because they sound like "isle." It makes a good story, but it won't work. However, we are grateful to Ahmed Deedat who has helped us identify Allah by admitting that "ILAH" is the root name for Allah. The complete name of Allah before it is contracted to the shorter form, is "AL-ILAH." (Hitti, Philip, History of The Arabs, London, 1950 , 8 ,) "ILAH" is the masculine root word for Allah, or "god", in Arabic. "AL ILAT" is the feminine resulting in Allat. The "AL" on the front of Al-ILAH is simply the definite article "the." (Tisdall, W StClair, The Sources of Islam, Amarko Book Agency, New Delhi, 1901 , 5-6 , , Islamic Propagation Center Int. Durban, S. Africa) AL-ILAH and AL-ILLAT are the root forms of the two names, Allah and Allat, from ancient Sumer where they were names of the god and goddess. Allat is the goddess referred to in the "Satanic Verses" in Al-Koran, Sura 53:19-23. There is no contracted form of God's name, as Deedat claims, in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible. EL, Elohim, or EL-Elyon are not found in any local pagan form along the path of ancient history outside of holy usage in the Bible and by pre-Islamic Semites. Also, this Allah of Islam is not Elah of the Bible unless Allah was a son of Esau named Duke Elah (Genesis 36:41) or was Allah one of the kings of Israel? (I King 16:6-8,13-14). Deedat's and the Mullahs' claims that "Alah" is used by Dr. C.I. Scofield to clarify the origin and meaning of Elohim. The note cited is in the footnote of the Scofield Reference Bible, King James Version, under Genesis 1:1.(Deedat claims Alah and Elah are variations of the same Hebrew word. "Alah" is the word for an oath or vow, while Elah is the name of a man, a valley, or an oak. This is typical of the ethics of the Mullahs who try to destroy the Bible and its truths.)
The Mullahs and Deedat are very selective with the Bible, in one breath attacking it, and in the next breath, quoting it as authoritative, as the occasion demands, even going to the footnotes for help. Why not stick to one book if the bible was corrupt instead of doing this?
Dr. Scofield says that "EL" is combined with "ALAH" to give the name of God, which is bizarre, since the two words do not contract into Elohim, as any primary student can see! "ALAH" supposedly gives the concept of an oath to the name of God. First, "ALAH" is a plain Hebrew word, not a contraction as with "Allah" of Islam which comes from "AL ILah," and thus the double "LL." So, "ALAH" in Hebrew has no relationship linguistically to the Allah of Arabic and the Koran. Second, there is no record in the history of the Hebrew language that "ALAH" is part of the concept of "EL" or "Elohim." This is why the revised edition of the Scofield Reference Bible omitted the note on "ALAH." Ahmed Deedat has been very helpful to use Schofield's erroneous note.

:o

 

[JudaicChristian]

I'am a Non-Trin myself.

• Yahwah reveals His name to Moses

Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?†(Elohiym means, “God of The Living.â€) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living†or “god-s of life;†for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.†(HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.â€

:yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

It's a translation error. Micah 4:5. All the nations may walk
in the name of their [gods/Elohiym] ;
we will walk in the name of [the LORD/Yahwah]
our [God/Elohiym] for ever and ever.

Elohiym means " God of Life."

 

[JudaicChristian]

Allah was one of the many names in the pantheon of gods in Arabia from about 700 BC. To show that Allah, or IL, and Allat, had been around for a long time already, they were honored in many Arab personal names. In times of great stress, or pleadings, the Northern Arabs used the god-form, FHLH, which meant, "so, O Allah."
The goddess form used just as often was FHLT which meant, "so, O Allat." This shows that Allah was well established in North Arabia and he also had a consort named Allat. ILAHA was used for the sun god. This shows that Allah was the sun god figure and Allat was the moon goddess. Allat was the high goddess. In Safatic inscriptions of Hauran, she was referred to as Alilat, Alitta, Hallat, and her Babylonian title was Allitu. In the Southern part of Arabia she was ILAT. Linguistic variation take place by migration along trade routes going back through Phoenicia, Assyria, Babylon, and Sumer.

The Nabataeans claimed that Allat was the goddess-consort of Dusares, which is the same North Arabian marriage between Tammuz and Ishtar, the Babylonian godhead. Allah was the exact unquestionable linguistic male gender compliment of Allat, with suffix gender distinctions on the LIL root. Wadd was the only moon god to the Arabs. carved in stone in North Arabia
Yemenites, circa 3 BC, built a temple of Wadd on the Greek Island of Delos! Wadd got around, but he was the only moon god, unless we let Sin in, who was a moon god, but never in the evolution of the pantheon from Sumer, home of Allah and Allat.

The Islamic notion of monotheism attached to Allah is not present in North Arabian inscriptions. Winnett, in an article for The Moslem World, gives a number of inscription quotes, including Allah, Allat, Dhu-Ghabat, Nahy, with Manat and LIL, coming up frequently in names of the writers. In one inscription Allah is asked to send the Jinn (devils) to aid the writer. Vengeance is called for from Allah on other men competing for the lover of the writer. Please don't think lightly of these writers. They were carving their zeal in stone with metal instruments, and that takes a serious mind and some time. It is a vastly greater undertaking than carving ones initials in tree bark. Winnett shows that common to Allah in the inscriptions is the attribute, "abtar" or "childless." The revelation that Allah had no offspring, which Mohammad claimed in Koran, Sura 108 and 112, was used by Mohammad as a correction for the Christian doctrine regarding the Sonship of Jesus Christ.

This does not imply that Mohammad knew a monotheistic god personally. It implies that Mohammad picked Allah, a god who could not keep a wife, so other gods impregnated Allat, the wife of Allah. Arab monotheism had its roots in North Arabia 500 years before the birth of Christ. Though Allah was childless, it is clear that Allah had a consort named Allat. The original reason they never produced a son is because the doctrine of pagan Babylon, from which Allah evolved, said that the goddess could produce a son without being sired by the god in residence.

Much later, the North Arabian reason Allah never had a son was because Allat went to other gods to sire her. Mohammad's monotheism is a myth. Allah and Allat, along with devils (Jinn) and a whole community of deities, were happily making their way to Mecca in North Arabia circa 500 BC. This Hajj of Allah might better be called "the migration of the gods to Mecca." It was a divine caravan! Olmstead draws the divine couple together by reporting an inscription at Dedan which said, "Naamil (note the IL root), son of Hafraz. Allah is exalted." From Tema comes another voice blasting the inferior god, "Salm is a mean god" and, "A foul god is Salm." Olmstead then associates Allah with the gods reported by Herodotus-- Dionysus, Alilat, and Orotalt. Alilat is Allat, the consort of Allah.

It is interesting to note that a Dedanite inscription makes reference to Geshmu the Arab, Nehemiah's opponent. This is the kind of historic cross reference which is glaringly missing in the Koran. Mohammad was terrified of the Allah / Allat connection. He allowed the family to exist momentarily, by way of the "Satanic verses" in Sura 53, but he saw at once that he could not counterfeit Christianity and win the Jews with an earthly physical family for the Islamic godhead.

The Jews in Medina liked Mohammad's monotheism, so Allah had to be divorced from Allat for the Jews to go for the new cult. Mohammad could not understand how Allah could have a son who was a god but not physically sired by God. Mohammad believed that all sons are produced in the marriage bed. Allah made the journey from Sumer to Northern Arabia. It is clear that Allah's role in the advent of Islam in 625 AD, is written history. Mohammad claimed he found Allah in the Kaaba after he threw out all of the other pagan gods. Allah is the pagan god who survived best and who migrated over 2000 miles from Babel to Mecca. It is now clear that Mohammad's claim to a heritage in Elohim is the most exquisite of blasphemies. Allah is the god of Islam. Allat was its goddess.

:yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.
Chemosh, an ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god.
Others view Chemosh as the god of the neitherworld on the basis of an Akkadian god-list which identified him with the god Nergal. Support for this identification may be found in Ugaritic texts. Encyclopedia Judiaca Vol. 5, Col. 390.
THE MOABITE STONE
King Mesha, 930 BC.

Moabite Stone
I am Mesha, son of Chemosh melek, the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father.

And I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarhar . . . because of the deliverance of Mesha, and because he has saved me from all the kings and because he caused me to see [my desire] upon all who hated me. Omri, king of Israel -- he oppressed Moab many days, because Chemosh was angry with his land.

And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever.

Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Chemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from of old and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I foutht against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Chemosh and to Moab.

And I brought back from there the altar-hearth of Duda and I dragged it before Chemosh in Kiryoth. And I caused to dwell in it the men of Sharon and the men of Meharoth (?).

And Chemosh said to me: "Go take Nebo against Israel"; and I went by night and fought against it from break of dawn till noon, and I took it and slew all, seven thousand men and boys, women and girls, and I devoted it to Ashtar-Chemosh.

And I took from there the altar-hearths of Yahwah, and I dragged them before Chemosh. And the king of Israel built Jabaz and dwelt in it while he fought with me and Chemosh drove him out from before me. And I took from Moab two hundred men, all its chiefs, and I led them against Jahaz and took it to add unto Dibon.

And I built Qarhar, the wall of the forests and the wall of the hill; and I built its gates and I built its towers, and I built the kings house, and I made the sluices for the reservoir of water in the midst of the city.

And there was no cistern in the midst of the city, in Qarhar; and I said to all the people: "Make you each a cistern in his house;" and I cut the cuttings for Qarhar with the help of the prisoners of Israel. I built Aroer and I made the highway by the Arnon. And I built Beth-bamoth, for it had been destroyed. And I built Bezer, for it was in ruins....(Chi) of Dibon wer fifty, for all Dibon was obedient. And I ruled. And I ruled a hundred....in the cities which I had added to the land. And I built [Mede]ba dnd Beth-diblathan. And [as for] Beth-baal-meon, there I placed sheep-raisers....sheep of the land... And [as for] Horonaim there dwelt in it....and.....Chemosh said unto me: "Go down, fight against Horonaim," and I went down and....Chemosh in my day, and from there.....and I.......

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.
Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 47:7,13,46). In Judges 11:24 he was also the god of the Ammonites. Solomon introduced Chemosh but later Josiah abolished the worship of Chemosh at Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 23:13).

Chemosh, was the ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god. The famous Moabite Stone, written by Mesha, a 9th-century-bc king of Moab, Chemosh received prominent mention as the deity who brought victory to the Moabites in their battle against the Israelites. In those days the Arabs knew the name of God as Yahwah, but because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arab people, His name was not to be ever spoken. And so the name of God was a cursed and never to be spoken. And that is why Mohammad did not know the name of the God of Abraham. That proves that Mohammad was not a prophet of God.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Where did everyone go?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Yahwah is the God of the LIVING, not the dead.

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?†(Elohiym means, “God of The Living.â€) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living†or “god-s of life;†for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.†(HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.â€

 

[Tina]

Just a point I would like to make before I leave this thread.

Isaiah 42:11 (One of the OT passages held to be prophetic to Islam)

"Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit; let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains."

Kedar was the son of Ishmael. The Muslim interpretation that this passage speaks of the coming Word of God to Ishmael's descendants through Muhammed.

Kedar was also a name of a town in the Arabian desert.
The personification of nature is common in the Book of Isaiah (33:9, 44:23, 55:12).

Isaiah 21:16-17
For thus the LORD has said to me: “Within a year, according to the year of a hired man, all the glory of Kedar will fail ; and the remainder of the number of archers, the mighty men of the people of Kedar, will be diminished; for the LORD God of Israel has spoken it.â€

 

[seekandlisten]

Kedar was also a name of a town in the Arabian desert.

Kedar was a tribe too. Kedar was also the second son of Ishmael who Muslims trace Muhammed's ancestry through, hence Allah being the God of Abraham as well to the Muslims. How one applies the scripture to their beliefs is their business as their are many different 'biblical interpretations' out there. You have Genesis 16:7-11 saying this -

The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"
"I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.
Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."
The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

So I'm sure there are many ways to explain the scriptures that refer to Ishamael and his descendants. There will definitely be a variation between the 3 Abrahamic religions.

cheers

 

[JudaicChristian]

Bumping bunnies.

 

[Ahuli]

Kedar was also a name of a town in the Arabian desert.

Kedar was a tribe too.

Kedar was also the second son of Ishmael who Muslims trace Muhammed's ancestry through, hence Allah being the God of Abraham as well to the Muslims.

cheers

Islam descending from Ishmael is a tradition, not a fact.

 

[NestForASparrow]

Years ago, I used the name for God on occasion, but I no longer do now. I don't remember being a true Christian (I had not yet received the Holy Spirit) when I referred to God by that name.