Allah is not the God of Abraham

[Ahuli]

For me, a good way to approach the Muslim is to decide from the first moment that the lies he tells are truth to him. He tells them to honor Allah, by putting one over on the infidel, which he is directed to do.
and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers" Sura 3:54
That is the way of the Muslim and that is why I no longer bother with naming "scholars". As I said, the "scholar" can have the highest reputation and believability to the Muslim, as soon as I use something he says to prove Islam idiosyncrasies, that scholar was/is wrong. That is like playing a game where the rules change as soon as the opponent loses. The Muslims talents in that game are inherent and he is a practiced liar.

So then, lies and deception is part of the Muslim religion! That would mean that they are beyond reason, and beyond redemption; totally lacking in any redeeming qualities. That would make them of a very low moral grade.

Using Christ as the foundation for all that is true, your estimation is correct. However, all things are possible for those who hear HIM.

 

[JudaicChristian]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... =&gs_rfai=[/url]

Tisdall, W StClair, The Sources of Islam, Amarko Book Agency, New Delhi, 1901 , 5-6 , , Islamic Propagation Center Int. Durban, S. Africa

Ahmed Deedat. Links:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Ahmed+De ... 1I7GGLL_en

List of sources: Moabite Stone, Babylonian cuneiform tablets, King James Bible, Quran, Safatic inscriptions of Hauran, Dedanite inscription, Ugaritic texts, Encyclopedia Judiaca Vol. 5, Col. 390., and Satanic Verses.[/size]

Where are all of the Muslim scholars? you said you used "premminent Muslim Schoalrs" as your source of knowledge?

I see one Muslim on there, Ahmed Deedat, he is a knowledgeable Muslim and he speaks the truth, but he is not a scholar. But good try.

I see that you two are pretty convinced Muslims outright lie when discussing Islam, even after I have shown where lying is forbidden, so I guess we'll call this one good. there is n othing I can say that you will take as truth so I'll say no more.[/quote:1p5xnrv3]
I said nothing about using Muslim Scholars. If you do not want to acknowledge Ahmed Deedat as a scholar, then that is fine with me.

 

[JudaicChristian]

No more camel cakes.

 

[Ahuli]

Where are all of the Muslim scholars? you said you used "premminent Muslim Schoalrs" as your source of knowledge?

I see one Muslim on there, Ahmed Deedat, he is a knowledgeable Muslim and he speaks the truth, but he is not a scholar. But good try.

I see that you two are pretty convinced Muslims outright lie when discussing Islam, even after I have shown where lying is forbidden, so I guess we'll call this one good. there is n othing I can say that you will take as truth so I'll say no more.[/quote]
I said nothing about using Muslim Scholars. If you do not want to acknowledge Ahmed Deedat as a scholar, then that is fine with me.[/quote]
What do you think? Has he proved the muslim way to all? So sad, isn't it.

 

[jasoncran]

No more camel cakes.

camel is good. :yes

 

[JudaicChristian]

No more camel cakes.

camel is good. :yes

Camel may be good, but I do not like cow pies or camel cakes. :gah

 

[JudaicChristian]

I have been waiting to be proven wrong with some historical or archaeological facts, but it seems that no one has any to prove me wrong.

 

[Tina]

.

The son that Abraham was asked to sacrifice according to the Quran is Ismael, whilst the son to be sacrificed according to the Christian Bible is Isaac.

God does not contradict Himself ... Allah is NOT the God of Abraham.


:shades

 

[Ed the Ned]

God gave the promised land to the Jews, yet Muslims want the Jews out of the land. If Allah was the God of Abraham then the Muslims would be wanting the Jews to stay in Jerusalem! They should be giving all the land to the Euphrates to the Jews!

 

[suhaiil]

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mdo757

You wrote in your first post

Christians should not use the name Allah for God because that name belongs to a Pagan god. Allah is the short form of Alilah: Al / il / ah, means [The god ascends.] Alilah was a Pagan sun god. Alilah is the phase of the morning sun. Because Mohammad was not a prophet, he did not know the name of the God of Abraham. Gods personal name is written on an ancient piece of stone found in Arabia. There was a time when the Arabs knew God’s name as Yahwah. But that was before God’s name was cursed by the Arabs, and not to ever again be spoken. The Arabs began worshiping other gods when Yahwah would not curse the Jews for them.

You wrote in your recent post

I have been waiting to be proven wrong with some historical or archaeological facts, but it seems that no one has any to prove me wrong.

…………….

Please be informed that Abraham and his descendents knew and used the name Allah much before Islam.


Alilah or Allah?

Al means “the†and ilah means a “deity or godâ€. Alilah is a common noun. While Allah is a proper noun and is a divine name of Real God, God of Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus.

God has One personal name, that is Allah. (We don’t know the meaning). There are many title names or attributed names of Allah. One of which is Yahweh or hayah, which means the Living One. The word Hayah, both in Hebrew and Arabic means: Life or living. Other title names include: The Most Merciful (Rahman), The Creator (Khaliq) and so on.

Historical Facts:

In 7th century, All the descendants of Abraham, living in modern Israel and Arabia, knew the personal name of God: Allah. Before Islam (7th century), descendants of Ishmael were using this name. Prophet Muhammad’s Father name was Abdullah, which means servant of Allah. Jews of Medina (descendants of Isaac) were using the word Allah for God. The Christians of Nazareth also spoke the word Allah for God.

-----------

If you wish we can discuss it further.

God bless

-

 

[JudaicChristian]

-

mdo757

You wrote in your first post

Christians should not use the name Allah for God because that name belongs to a Pagan god. Allah is the short form of Alilah: Al / il / ah, means [The god ascends.] Alilah was a Pagan sun god. Alilah is the phase of the morning sun. Because Mohammad was not a prophet, he did not know the name of the God of Abraham. Gods personal name is written on an ancient piece of stone found in Arabia. There was a time when the Arabs knew God’s name as Yahwah. But that was before God’s name was cursed by the Arabs, and not to ever again be spoken. The Arabs began worshiping other gods when Yahwah would not curse the Jews for them.

You wrote in your recent post

[quote:29attps6]I have been waiting to be proven wrong with some historical or archaeological facts, but it seems that no one has any to prove me wrong.

Please be informed that Abraham and his descendents knew and used the name Allah much before Islam.

Al means “the†and ilah means a “deity or godâ€. Alilah is a common noun. While Allah is a proper noun and is a divine name of Real God, God of Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus.

God has One personal name, that is Allah. (We don’t know the meaning). There are many title names or attributed names of Allah. One of which is Yahweh or hayah, which means the Living One. The word Hayah, both in Hebrew and Arabic means: Life or living. Other title names include: The Most Merciful (Rahman), The Creator (Khaliq) and so on.

In 7th century, All the descendants of Abraham, living in modern Israel and Arabia, knew the personal name of God: Allah. Before Islam (7th century), descendants of Ishmael were using this name. Prophet Muhammad’s Father name was Abdullah, which means servant of Allah. Jews of Medina (descendants of Isaac) were using the word Allah for God. The Christians of Nazareth also spoke the word Allah for God.

If you wish we can discuss it further.
God bless[/quote:29attps6]
Our bibles which were written long before the Quran was written say something different. The bible says that Abraham knew God as Elohiym. It was Moses whom God made known His personal name as Yahwah. God has many name titles, but Yahwah is His personal name. The spelling of Yahwah is based upon the fact that the ancient Semitic did not use the letter "E" as a vowel. If you would have read about the Moabite Stone, then you would have seen that the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah.

 

[Ahuli]

-

mdo757

You wrote in your first post

Christians should not use the name Allah for God because that name belongs to a Pagan god. Allah is the short form of Alilah: Al / il / ah, means [The god ascends.] Alilah was a Pagan sun god. Alilah is the phase of the morning sun. Because Mohammad was not a prophet, he did not know the name of the God of Abraham. Gods personal name is written on an ancient piece of stone found in Arabia. There was a time when the Arabs knew God’s name as Yahwah. But that was before God’s name was cursed by the Arabs, and not to ever again be spoken. The Arabs began worshiping other gods when Yahwah would not curse the Jews for them.

You wrote in your recent post

[quote:264lq0cn]I have been waiting to be proven wrong with some historical or archaeological facts, but it seems that no one has any to prove me wrong.

…………….

Please be informed that Abraham and his descendents knew and used the name Allah much before Islam.


Alilah or Allah?

Al means “the†and ilah means a “deity or godâ€. Alilah is a common noun. While Allah is a proper noun and is a divine name of Real God, God of Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus.

God has One personal name, that is Allah. (We don’t know the meaning). There are many title names or attributed names of Allah. One of which is Yahweh or hayah, which means the Living One. The word Hayah, both in Hebrew and Arabic means: Life or living. Other title names include: The Most Merciful (Rahman), The Creator (Khaliq) and so on.

Historical Facts:

In 7th century, All the descendants of Abraham, living in modern Israel and Arabia, knew the personal name of God: Allah. Before Islam (7th century), descendants of Ishmael were using this name. Prophet Muhammad’s Father name was Abdullah, which means servant of Allah. Jews of Medina (descendants of Isaac) were using the word Allah for God. The Christians of Nazareth also spoke the word Allah for God.

-----------

If you wish we can discuss it further.

God bless

-[/quote:264lq0cn]
Where was the name allah revealed for the first time. Please answer that with legitimate, meaning non-muslim, references.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Our bibles which were written long before the Quran was written say something different. The bible says that Abraham knew God as Elohiym. It was Moses whom God made known His personal name as Yahwah. God has many name titles, but Yahwah is His personal name. The spelling of Yahwah is based upon the fact that the ancient Semitic did not use the letter "E" as a vowel. If you would have read about the Moabite Stone, then you would have seen that the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah.

I need to correct myself. Abraham did not know God as Elohiym, but "God Almighty."
Exodus 6:1-3. Then Yahwah said to Moses, "Now you will see what I will do to Pharaoh: Because of my mighty hand he will let them go; because of my mighty hand he will drive them out of his land."
2. Elohiym said to Moses, "I’m Yahwah. 3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as [IL/God Almighty], but by my name Yahwah I did not make known to them.

 

[Pard]

God has One personal name, that is Allah.

Except... Allah means God in Arabic, not anything more specific than God.

Before Islam Allah was used by pagans, called Meccans, and for them Allah WAS the name of a certain God, however, unless you are Meccan, then Allah is just a generic name for God. Arabic speaking Jews, Christians, and Muslims use the word Allah to mean God. In fact, in Arabic OT where the English OT would read "God" it reads "Alllah".

'?lôh??ym is the first name used to speak of God, not Allah. Allah means God, nothing more.

Muslims will claim Allah is God's name, the fail on their part is they forget to realize that The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, not Arabic. So, no matter how hard you try Allah is only an Arabic translation of a Hebrew word. The English Bible stills preserves the Hebrew name for God because it is His name.

It's like if you are Spanish and your name is Juan, when you come to an English speaking country your name doesn't change to John, it's still Juan...

 

[Pard]

I was primarily answering suhaiil, but then when I did a quick Google I found an Islamic site that claimed Allah is God's real name, some site called answering Christianity... a rather ridiculous name, as Christianity IS the answer.

 

[JudaicChristian]

We do not claim that Allah's personal name is Allah we do not profess to know his personal names - Allah is a title - The God. He has many other names in Arabic as well - these are attributes like The Most Merciful, The Guide. The Truth - there are 3000 names in total that we have been made aware of, Yahweh, El, El Dios, God - all names we recognize as names of the creator.

We use the name Allah because that was the name Muhamed(SAW) used the most, we also use it in English speaking society because the word God can be used to refer to many things other than the Creator - so we use Allah out of respect, in Arabic Allah has no male/female connotation and is not used in reference to anything but the supreme Creator.

..see I knew even Christians were not buying this argument.

Many years before Islam, Allah was worshipped as a pagan god from Babel. History proves it. The Arabs were worshipping Allah just as Islam was beginning. That is why Mohammad said, "you already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe that he is the only god."

 

[Ahuli]

We do not claim that Allah's personal name is Allah we do not profess to know his personal names - Allah is a title - The God. He has many other names in Arabic as well - these are attributes like The Most Merciful, The Guide. The Truth - there are 3000 names in total that we have been made aware of, Yahweh, El, El Dios, God - all names we recognize as names of the creator.

We use the name Allah because that was the name Muhamed(SAW) used the most, we also use it in English speaking society because the word God can be used to refer to many things other than the Creator - so we use Allah out of respect, in Arabic Allah has no male/female connotation and is not used in reference to anything but the supreme Creator.

..see I knew even Christians were not buying this argument.

Many years before Islam, Allah was worshipped as a pagan god from Babel. History proves it. The Arabs were worshipping Allah just as Islam was beginning. That is why Mohammad said, "you already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe that he is the only god."

And that is why they do not answer our questions. Not truthfully, anyways. And that is why they are permitted to lie.

O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102).

 

[JudaicChristian]

And that is why they do not answer our questions. Not truthfully, anyways. And that is why they are permitted to lie.

O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102).

That reminds me of that old saying, "ask me no question, and I will tell you no lies." I think you have made your point, and the Muslims helped you prove it. What a shame, they can't even be honest with themselves.

 

[Ahuli]

And that is why they do not answer our questions. Not truthfully, anyways. And that is why they are permitted to lie.

O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102).

That reminds me of that old saying, "ask me no question, and I will tell you no lies." I think you have made your point, and the Muslims helped you prove it. What a shame, they can't even be honest with themselves.

It makes me very sad. It is that lack of honesty with themselves that is so devastating. Blindly following lies and liars. That is why they did not answer in my post about embryology and my other one about the name of allah and where it originates. And that is why I don't understand some Christians here and other places who would want to defend them and their practices. Are we not given the spirit of discernment to help us acknowledge what is wrong?

But, I'm grateful for you. God bless.

 

[Pard]

Are we not given the spirit of discernment to help us acknowledge what is wrong?

Amen. Amen. Amen.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.