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Answer man... answer!

hopefearmercy said:
Gary, you really must quote the things you are saying about Mohammad pbuh and put your input into the matter at hand, for I do not know telepathy.

I have already done that.... so why not address the post?

Another error by Muhammad...

Muhammad misunderstood the Trinity.
He thought that the Christian concept of God was:
  • (1) God the father
    (2) Jesus the son
    and....
    (3) Mary the mother!!!!
Surah 5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind:
Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?
he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right.
If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my
mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the
Knower of Things Hidden?

Now IF the Quran was from the real, living God... God would have known
what Christians believed in:
  • God the Father
    God the Son (Jesus Christ)
    God the Holy Spirit

:o :o
 
ok fair enough...good question

first of all, God is talking to Jesus ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION...for even prophets of God will be questioned and judged. No man will escape this unless proven shaheed and not in debt....

the Catholics call mary the mother of God and therefore, you would know that if she is the mother of God, that people do put her up and do hail marries etc........THIS IS WORSHIPPING....to hold someone with that much regard and pray and make compensation of sins etc....this is wrong and is considered to be a religion....

Again, I say, Mohammad pbuh DID NOT WRITE THE QURAN....it was handed down....and God says....DO NOT SAY TRINITY....why don't you take that one up with God eh? :)

hopefearmercy
 
Wrong again.... Muhammad claimed that Mary was a god... read it again.

Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah

Clearly Muhammad was mistaken.

Secondly, show me where the Quran ever mentions the word "Trinity".

:)
 
hu hum


hmm didn't my son post the aya(verse) already and you claimed that God didn't know what He was talking about?...anyways....I will post

Sura Maida(Chapter Maida, 5th from the start) aya(verse) 73

Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three(in a trinity)." But there is no Ilah(god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah(God-Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them...74: Will they not turn with repentance to Allah and ask His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

transliteration of trinity...:laqd kafar alltheena qaaluu "InnaAllaha THAALITHU THALAATHATU".

now please don't make fun of Arabic either for am sure the language of which Jesus spoke you do not understand it as well.:)

hopefearmercy
 
Again deception..... there is NO word "Trinity" in the Quran. Even the translation you use (Al-Hilali/Khan) has the word in brackets because they knew that Christians would see the mistake in the Quran. Yusuf Ali's translation is even more deceptive. He knew part of his audience were Christians.

Christians have NEVER believed that the Godhead and God was a "third of three"! That is only another mistake from Muhammad like the mistake of saying that Mary is one of the "two gods" (Mary and Jesus).

  • Al-Hilali/Khan Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a trinity)." But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God-Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.

    Yusuf Ali They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

    Pickthall They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

    Sher Ali They surely disbelieve who say, `ALLAH is the third of three;' there is no god but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

    Arberry They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Third of Three. No god is there but One God. If they refrain not from what they say, there shall afflict those of them that disbelieve a painful chastisement.

    Palmer They misbelieve who say, 'Verily, God is the third of three;' for there is no God but one, and if they do not desist from what they say, there shall touch those who misbelieve amongst them grievous woe.

    Rodwell They surely are Infidels who say, "God is the third of three:" for there is no God but one God: and if they refrain not from what they say, a grievous chastisement shall light on such of them as are Infidels.

    Sale They are certainly infidels, who say, God is the third of three: For there is no God, besides one God; and if they refrain not from what they say, a painful torment shall surely be inflicted on such of them as are unbelievers.

    Transliterated Arabic Laqad kafara allatheena qaloo inna Allaha thalithu thalathatin wama min ilahin illa ilahun wahidun wa-in lam yantahoo AAamma yaqooloona layamassanna allatheena kafaroo minhum AAathabun aleemun

You KNEW there was no such word in the Quran.

:-?
 
:) again...third of three is trinity


ok so now the point you are trying to make is the ACTUAL WORD so you want to make english now into arabic....do you not know that Allah has better knowledge than a simple word that is not to your liking>>>>

Allah explained trinity!!!!...why don't you want to except it???? three is trinity no matter how you look at it...helloooooo...TRINITY...do not say the third of three....what else can be not so clear to you?...then goes on to explain in the Quran to prove what they say and do about those who believe in such things...is proof there not enough....the third of three is trinity no matter how you claim to disprove it....in threes=trinity

simple minds lead simple lives...difficult ones lead difficult lives.

all in all, Allah knows more than both of us put together....but I am not challenging Him:) you are......

hopefearmercy
 
Wrong again. I have shown you two clear cases of where Muhammad misunderstood Christian belief.

Firstly, he thought that Mary was one of the "two gods"... Jesus and Mary!

Secondly, he thought the concept of Trinity was 3 gods. Hence his "third of three" description.

:)
 
hopefearmercy said:
threes=trinity

Incorrect. Trinity does not mean three separately. In fact, here's the Latin base etymology

Etymology: Middle English trinite, from Old French trinité, from Late Latin trinitat-, trinitas state of being threefold, from Latin trinus threefold

It literally translates back to threefold. This shows unity. Making God one Triune being.
 
Re: HA Ha Ha

Frost-X said:
Hey man


Who are you to Teach God and Mohammad ?



Ignorance . !!! your truely Blind .


It is you who is misslead . Christianity now is not like before .


And there are diff sects. MY mom says so and she knows christianity more than you do .

------------------------------

But your still deff or can i say blind coz your not reading this Line


((( DONT DEBATE ME ))) and go to this site

http://www.islamtomorrow.com

Watchi his preists and preachers enter islam Video !!!

you never listen .

i am suck of you guys and i have no time for you

i have alot of work to do and plus i am in the Army
Just who do you think you are? And we will debate you for as long as it takes for you to learn to behave like an adult and not like a spoiled brat.
And tell your mom to teach you some manners if nothing else and your one of the reasons why I truly hate islam, you're arrogant and hard headed
To you we are infidels and stupid for believing in Jesus but at least HE was pure and tenderhearted with people whereas your muhammad was a terrorist and god knows what else he was
 
what denomination are you?



Brutus, can I ask you what denomination do you belong to?

You know, when I sat with my parents one evening, I said to them, "why do you insist on saying that God is not three persons?"...they replied back, we don't believe God is three persons...but 3 personalities in one...or 3 beings in another...she gave me the example of an egg,...then water...etc...but I reminded her...they cannot all be one ALL AT THE SAME TIME...each are considered different...example...egg...shell,yolk,and the white...water..solid liquid mass....etc....they told me I don't know what I am talking about....

then I said to them, "then why do you sing it in your church that God is in three persons"?...they claimed I was wrong and don't know what I am talking about......so I took out the hymn book...and opened it up(we have a hymnal at home...we are a piano playin people, (my mom used to play the organ for the church in Illinois growin up as well)...anyways...I turned to the song..."HOLY HOLY HOLY"...AND I know the song by heart...so I sang it to her...Holy Holy Holy...God in three persons, blessed trinity.

They shut up after that....

what I am on about is, that Christians see a picture of three but on and from their lips they claim only one....since Jesus himself in the Bible says...The Lord our God is ONE GOD...He didn't say three in one...and as for the Holy Ghost, make up your mind, was it coming after Jesus(since you call the comforter the holy ghost), or was it during the time when Jesus was in the very highly respected mary(in Islam she is regarded as the mother of all nations), when she pregnant...or during when John the Baptist...or what and when?...contradictions...if you want I can post from the Bible...but since you know better...right?...you should decifer that out god willing.

three in one is claimed by the pastors, preachers, priests, etc....not by Jesus in the Bible...trinity is not to be found and not to be quoted from Jesus' lips.

anyways...what I am saying is of me.
hopefearmercy
 
Just because you do not understand the concept of the trinity does not make it anyless true.

Websters Online Dictionary gives this as one definition of person:


w-m.com said:
5 : the personality of a human being

In English, the term person is often used to set of a human's personality. Now, Let's apply this definition to the Christian concept of the Trinity.

God is one God. However, while He is one overall God, He exists in three persons. They all exist at the same time because God is Eternal. If one aspect of His existed only part of the time, he would not be eternal. The Father/Son/Holy Spirit are identities all of one God. Hence, Three in One, or Triune. The Trinity.


*Edited to Add: What Denomination do I "belong" to? None, I belong to and follow Christ, that is what makes me Christian. Not a denomination of a set of doctrines. However, there is not one "church" that is truly without a denomination today. So when I fellowship with a body of Christians, I'm usually in a Baptist or "Non-denomination" alligned building.
 
ok...look up trinity...:O look what i found

so you are taking Webster's opinion on how to define a human:)...ok as you wish...but still, why don't you look up trinity...better yet I will...oh wow.....guess what I got????...

Trinity: The unity of Father son and holy spirit as THREE PERSONS in one Godhead according to christian godhead..........also...a group of three closely related persons or things.

So if you do not belong to any denomination....how do you know you are following the way God wants you to? Do you know yourself better than God does?...Do you claim to know what God wants from you if you don't have the correct knowledge?


just wonderin

hopefearmercy
 
Re: ok...look up trinity...:O look what i found

hopefearmercy said:
so you are taking Webster's opinion on how to define a human:)...ok as you wish...but still, why don't you look up trinity...better yet I will...oh wow.....guess what I got????...

Trinity: The unity of Father son and holy spirit as THREE PERSONS in one Godhead according to christian godhead..........also...a group of three closely related persons or things.

So if you do not belong to any denomination....how do you know you are following the way God wants you to? Do you know yourself better than God does?...Do you claim to know what God wants from you if you don't have the correct knowledge?


just wonderin

hopefearmercy

Sure, we can keep using Websters. What you posted doesn't contradict the definition of the Trinity I or websters provided. Here's why:

1. The Definition Websters Gives for Trinity mentions three persons. As I provided in my previous post, the word Person can bedefined refering to one's personality or identity. No Trinity believing Christian would object to God having the three persons. Did you even read the explaination?

2. "a group of closely related persons or things" Again, after reading my last post, the obstacle of the word Persons is no longer valid. However, if you were to use this definition, ytou can note that in no place in the definition does it say these things are separate. Closely related may allude to such a direction, but I can think of no closer relationship than being together. However, this definition is not valid. You did note that the actual definition provides this note before it:" not capitalized ". When discussing the Christian Trinity, the T is capitalized. As the idea relates to God, we show the Idea the same respect we do where ever else we discuss God.

As For your three questions concerning my lack of a denomination:

1. How do I know I'm following the way God wants me to?

2 Timothy 2:15
Ephesians 4:4-6

To simply say it, Denominations are not scriptural.(As a former christian turned muslim, you should know that. Most who leave Christianity site that as one of their main objections.) So I study Gods word and use the gift of the Holy Spirit to discern what is truth. That's how I know.

2.Do I Know myself better than God does?

As a former Christian, you should know that God is omnisceint. Meaning I don't think, nor can I know anything better than God.

3.Do I claim to know what God wants from me even if I don't have the correct knowledge?

As a former Christian, you should know that there is a way to know what God wants from us, even if we don't know everything. In Fact, even Ahimsa knows this. Matthew 22:37-39


Alright, I've aswered your questions. Get back to the topic at hand or show their relavancy.
 
prove all things.


Hello,

first of all, I did not post the definition of trinity to be a contradiction in the dictionary....three persons in a Godhead....this is what I am on about....not ONE GOD as you claim....imagine a god being split up..1/3 1/3 1/3.....but Jesus never claimed it in the Bible....he always referred to God being better than he.....

Mark 12:29..And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.(he never said himself)John 8:28 ….I do nothing of myself

John 14:28…My father is greater than I

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


as far as your knowing what God wants from you...you are just one person who sees the bible the way YOU want to....who is to say you are correct in your opinion?


As for loving God with all your heart and soul...fine:) most of us do...but that doesn't make YOUR CLAIM on Jesus as God and the trinity....this proves you love God only.....but God sent laws and messages to mankind...don't you want to find out what they are and practice correctly?...the Bible is not authentic words of God...simple....so how can you trust them? They are not proven....TRANSLATIONS ARE NOT GOD'S WORDS.

we are to prove all things.

:) hopefearmercy
 
Christians have NEVER believed that the Godhead and God was a "third of three"!

That is only another mistake from Muhammad like the mistake of saying that Mary is one of the "two gods" (Mary and Jesus).

:o
 
trinity

well explain that to the pastors and preachers....is what is called the Trinity.

hopefearmercy
 
Re: trinity

hopefearmercy said:
well explain that to the pastors and preachers....is what is called the Trinity.

Nope... wrong again.

Christians have NEVER believed that the Godhead and God was a "third of three"!

That is only another mistake from Muhammad like the mistake of saying that Mary is one of the "two gods" (Mary and Jesus).

IF you want to find out what Christians believe, why not study it?

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/packer/index.html
and this
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/packer/trinity.htm

:)
 
mary is in catholism, a godlike mother...they worship her!


You can call it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is...if Mary gave birth to A GOD......THE GOD OF EVERYTHING AS YOU CLAIM, THEN she must be a higher god to have conceived the highest as you claim....PEOPLE WORSHIP HER....NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT!....that entails........a godlike god....hail mary.....what does that mean?...mother of god...why do the catholics think they must go thru priests and confessions and to recompensate for their wrongdoings....(and to have the preist forgive them instead of god), then go straight to god?...people all over the world claim mary as the "mother of god"...and they worship HER....and they claim it in the name of Christianity.

FACT IS FACT....you have no right to disclaim this....even the pope claims a relation with God....:S

hopefearmercy
 
You can call it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is...if Mary gave birth to A GOD......THE GOD OF EVERYTHING AS YOU CLAIM, THEN she must be a higher god to have conceived the highest as you claim....

Stick to the subject. Trinity. Muhammad's mistakes.

Trinity is NOT "third of three". That is a very basic mistake about Christian belief made by Muhammad.

Now back to your mistaken Christian beliefs.....

I was wondering. Did your ex-Pastor ever teach you about the Incarnation? If he did, you were not listening.

INCARNATION
GOD SENT HIS SON, TO SAVE US

  • The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. JOHN 1:14
Trinity and Incarnation belong together. The doctrine of the Trinity declares that the man Jesus is truly divine; that of the Incarnation declares that the divine Jesus is truly human. Together they proclaim the full reality of the Savior whom the New Testament sets forth, the Son who came from the Father’s side at the Father’s will to become the sinner’s substitute on the cross (Matthew 20:28; Matthew 26:36-46; John 1:29; John 3:13-17; Romans 5:8; Romans 8:32; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21; 2 Corinthians 8:9; Philippians 2:5-8).

The moment of truth regarding the doctrine of the Trinity came at the Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325), when the church countered the Arian idea that Jesus was God’s first and noblest creature by affirming that he was of the same “substance†or “essence†(i.e., the same existing entity) as the Father. Thus there is one God, not two; the distinction between Father and Son is within the divine unity, and the Son is God in the same sense as the Father is. In saying that Son and Father are “of one substance,†and that the Son is “begotten†(echoing “only-begotten,†John 1:14, John 1:18; John 3:16-18 and NIV text notes) but “not made,†the Nicene Creed unequivocally recognized the deity of the man from Galilee.

A crucial event for the church’s confession of the doctrine of the Incarnation came at the Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451), when the church countered both the Nestorian idea that Jesus was two personalitiesâ€â€the Son of God and a manâ€â€under one skin, and the Eutychian idea that Jesus’ divinity had swallowed up his humanity. Rejecting both, the council affirmed that Jesus is one divine-human person in two natures (i.e., with two sets of capacities for experience, expression, reaction, and action); and that the two natures are united in his personal being without mixture, confusion, separation, or division; and that each nature retained its own attributes. In other words, all the qualities and powers that are in us, as well as all the qualities and powers that are in God, were, are, and ever will be really and distinguishably present in the one person of the man from Galilee. Thus the Chalcedonian formula affirms the full humanity of the Lord from heaven in categorical terms.

The Incarnation, this mysterious miracle at the heart of historic Christianity, is central in the New Testament witness. That Jews should ever have come to such a belief is amazing. Eight of the nine New Testament writers, like Jesus’ original disciples, were Jews, drilled in the Jewish axiom that there is only one God and that no human is divine. They all teach, however, that Jesus is God’s Messiah, the Spirit-anointed son of David promised in the Old Testament (e.g., Isaiah 11:1-5; Christos, “Christ,†is Greek for Messiah). They all present him in a threefold role as teacher, sin-bearer, and rulerâ€â€prophet, priest, and king. And in other words, they all insist that Jesus the Messiah should be personally worshiped and trustedâ€â€which is to say that he is God no less than he is man. Observe how the four most masterful New Testament theologians (John, Paul, the writer of Hebrews, and Peter) speak to this.

John’s Gospel frames its eyewitness narratives (John 1:14; John 19:35; John 21:24) with the declarations of its prologue (John 1:1-18): that Jesus is the eternal divine Logos (Word), agent of Creation and source of all life and light, who through becoming “flesh†was revealed as Son of God and source of grace and truth, indeed as “God the only begottenâ€Â.

The Gospel is punctuated with “I am†statements that have special significance because I am (Greek: ego eimi) was used to render God’s name in the Greek translation of Exodus 3:14; whenever John reports Jesus as saying ego eimi, a claim to deity is implicit. Examples of this are John 8:28, John 8:58, and the seven declarations of his grace as (a) the Bread of Life, giving spiritual food (John 6:35, John 6:48, John 6:51); (b) the Light of the World, banishing darkness (John 8:12; John 9:5); (c) the gate for the sheep, giving access to God (John 10:7-9); (d) the Good Shepherd, protecting from peril (John 10:11-14); (e) the Resurrection and Life, overcoming our death (John 11:25); (f) the Way, Truth, and Life, guiding to fellowship with the Father (John 14:6); (g) the true Vine, nurturing for fruitfulness (John 15:1, John 15:5). Climactically, Thomas worships Jesus as “my Lord and my God†(John 20:28). Jesus then pronounces a blessing on all who share Thomas’s faith and John urges his readers to join their number (John 20:29-31).

Paul quotes from what seems to be a hymn that declares Jesus’ personal deity (Philippians 2:6); states that “in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form†(Colossians 2:9; cf. Colossians1:19); hails Jesus the Son as the Father’s image and as his agent in creating and upholding everything (Colossians 1:15-17); declares him to be “Lord†(a title of kingship, with divine overtones), to whom one must pray for salvation according to the injunction to call on Yahweh in Joel 2:32 (Romans 10:9-13); calls him “God over all†(Romans 9:5) and “God and Savior†(Titus 2:13); and prays to him personally (2 Corinthians 12:8-9), looking to him as a source of divine grace (2 Corinthians 13:14). The testimony is explicit: faith in Jesus’ deity is basic to Paul’s theology and religion.

The writer to the Hebrews, purporting to expound the perfection of Christ’s high priesthood, starts by declaring the full deity and consequent unique dignity of the Son of God (Hebrews 1:3-6, Hebrews 1:8-12), whose full humanity he then celebrates in chapter 2. The perfection, and indeed the very possibility, of the high priesthood that he describes Christ as fulfilling depends on the conjunction of an endless, unfailing divine life with a full human experience of temptation, pressure, and pain (Hebrews 2:14-17; Hebrews 4:14 to Hebrews 5:2; Hebrews 7:13-28; Hebrews12:2-3).

Not less significant is Peter’s use of Isaiah 8:12-13 (1 Peter 3:14). He cites the Greek (Septuagint) version, urging the churches not to fear what others fear but to set apart the Lord as holy. But where the Septuagint text of Isaiah says, “Set apart the Lord himself,†Peter writes, “Set apart Christ as Lord†(1 Peter 3:15). Peter would give the adoring fear due to the Almighty to Jesus of Nazareth, his Master and Lord.

The New Testament forbids worship of angels (Colossians 2:18; Revelation 22:8-9) but commands worship of Jesus and focuses consistently on the divine-human Savior and Lord as the proper object of faith, hope, and love here and now. Religion that lacks these emphases is not Christianity. Let there be no mistake about that!

:)

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/pa ... nation.htm
 
Re: mary is in catholism, a godlike mother...they worship he

hopefearmercy said:
You can call it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is...if Mary gave birth to A GOD......THE GOD OF EVERYTHING AS YOU CLAIM, THEN she must be a higher god to have conceived the highest as you claim....PEOPLE WORSHIP HER....NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT!....that entails........a godlike god....hail mary.....what does that mean?...mother of god...


Complete nonsense. Mary is not considered to be the "mother of god" in the way that you claim.
 

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