Allah the devil

[hopefearmercy]

God knows more



Look, I am not claiming anything....am trying to make you people understand that no matter how you look at it........to give birth to a god, you must be somethin!......people worship mary.....hang "fake" pictures of her up, statues,...or whatever they have.

whatever you truely desire(infatuated with) and are addicted to ....constitutes a religion....in other words....what you make up, form,...you put so much in your life before God....when He only deserves the praise and honor.

God does know more than you....

hopefearmercy

 

[DivineNames]

Re: God knows more

Look, I am not claiming anything....

You were indeed making a claim, and it was nonsense.

God does know more than you....

If you mean "Allah", he doesn't know more about the Trinity... Allah didn't understand anything about the Trinity...


Why is it that Muslims find it so difficult to get this?

:D

 

[Blazin Bones]

^Simple way to finish this point, Divine. The all powerful Allah was just enlightened to how the trinity works. Hope/Frost, you had no substance to refute the description I provided. I even pointed out where you edited the definition from webster's to try and add some pop to your arguement. If Allah is all Powerful, why is it that you can't even live by your book when you are defending him? :roll: I think most of us know the answer...

 

[YESHUA]

Re: Igronace

You talking likea kid ......
Mohammad Is the leader of Peace and mercy .
NO MUHAMMAD WAS THE LEADER OF HATE AND EVERYTHING EVIL

Allah sent him as a mercy to this universe .
NO SATAN SEND HIM AS A LIAR AND WHAT HAVE YOU

Jesus the messenger of Allah is also a Follower Of Mohammad and he is raised to the sky being told what to do to compelete his mission .
YES JESUS WAS RAISED TO THE SKY AND HE IS BEING HELD BACK UNTILL HIS PEOPLE THE JEWS IS BACK AND THE LAND BEING RESTORED BACK TO IT WAS BEFORE AND SOON HE WILL COME BACK TO REDEEM HIS PEOPEL
And his mission is to kill the Anti christ !!! !!!! !!! !!!!!

And who is this anti Christ? Would it be Jesus Christ? And just how can Jesus Christ kill himself? And where would he do this plz answer if you can. You are so blind and mislead my friend you can not se what your writing is pure nonsense
And jesus is a muslim !!!
NO WAY JESUS WAS BORN A JEW AND HIS NAME IN HEBREW IS YESHUA WHICH MEANS SALVATION
Not God !!! he is a messenger.

He Agaisnt all you christians !!!!!!
REALLY AND JUST WHAT DO YOU THING HE IS TOWARDS MUSLIMS
He cant save you or help you now
YES HE CAN AND HE WILL TILL THE ENDS OF THE WORLD
Pray as much as you will
YES I DO THAT EVERYDAY AND GUESS WHAT HE HEARS ME EVERYTIME NOT LIKE YOUR DEAF AND DUMB ALLAH

Jesus doesnt hear you
DO YOU WANNA BET?
But Allah CAN


And jesus is a Prophet Of Allah the creator of everything ......

 

[Guest]

YESHUA : First let me point to you that his name is ( ISA ) not jesus or yeshua .


this is a sickness in some people who changed the names of the prophets'

like Yusuf they made it Joseph
John the baptist is Yahya .

Abraham is Ibraheeem

Ahmad is Mohammad !!
-----------------------------------------------------------
YESHUA says :

NO MUHAMMAD WAS THE LEADER OF HATE AND EVERYTHING EVIL

This is your ignorance about Mohammad and you have read false Accusations and there is not one thing Mohammad did wrong in his life since he was born .

You have not read about his true life .

YOU WISH YOU WANNA LIVE WITH HIM

from how he was ( peaceful, merciful, kind, polite )

read the story of the jew who used to throw trash at his door everyday and when the jew was on his death bin Mohammad visited him to ask how is he doing and he misses his trash and the JEw became muslim and said this personality can only be from a True Messenger of God .

----------------------------------------------

YESHUA says:

NO SATAN SEND HIM AS A LIAR AND WHAT HAVE YOU

Satan's worst enemy is Mohammad peace be upon him and Satan is misleading you people into hating Mohammad just like he does and satan has blinded .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YESHUA says:

YES JESUS WAS RAISED TO THE SKY AND HE IS BEING HELD BACK UNTILL HIS PEOPLE THE JEWS IS BACK AND THE LAND BEING RESTORED BACK TO IT WAS BEFORE AND SOON HE WILL COME BACK TO REDEEM HIS PEOPEL

So your telling me now Jesus is with JEWS not CHRISTIANS

WHY ARENT YOU JEWISH ????????

Note : jesus has a mission and it will be fullfilled soon .

Allah Will send him back to earth to fight JEWS & Christiands and stand with Muslim as a just ruler .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
YESHUA

And who is this anti Christ? Would it be Jesus Christ? And just how can Jesus Christ kill himself? And where would he do this plz answer if you can. You are so blind and mislead my friend you can not se what your writing is pure nonsense

The Anti Christ is the ( DAJJAL ) who will claim to be Jesus and he is a liar and Jesus will kill him .

Jesus will kill him in somewhere where tel Aviv airport is but of course when he is back there will be no technology weapons on swords and arrows with horses and bla bla bla.

You are the one whos blind.

Go read in the bible where jesus him self denies the gentil's so this means your wrong .

Go read in mathew where he says to you people oh who with little faith.

( i dunno why i am wasting my time with you faithless people )

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO WAY JESUS WAS BORN A JEW AND HIS NAME IN HEBREW IS YESHUA WHICH MEANS SALVATION

nope : hes is ( ISA )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

REALLY AND JUST WHAT DO YOU THINK HE IS TOWARDS MUSLIMS

A just ruler and a messenger of Allah .

he will be our leader in the war agaisnt the anti christ who is the liar who will claim to be God and Jesus.

Allah gave Dajjal the power of making people come back from the dead ( he can only do it once )

he will give him power to order for rain to come and turn mountains into bread .

(( TO TEST PEOPLE AND SEES WHO FOLLOWS HIM ))

And who follows DAJJAL will certinly Fail .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES HE CAN AND HE WILL TILL THE ENDS OF THE WORLD

He can't help or hear you .

Hes a normal human like me and you with no powers of God.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES I DO THAT EVERYDAY AND GUESS WHAT HE HEARS ME EVERYTIME NOT LIKE YOUR DEAF AND DUMB ALLAH

Did christianity teach you to insult other peoples religion or faith ?

Surely this is an act of Satan and no love in your religion .

Why do you pray to someone who is not a God

Jesus himself said in the Bible he is the son of MAN and if ur so good look it up !!

In the Bible is does not teach you anything about what jesus will do when he decends and it does not state where he is gonna decend .

We muslims know exactly what he is going to do and where he is gonna decend and how much he is gonna live and how much he will accoplish

And he will also DIE !!!

Tell me how can your God Die ??

I do not believe in a God who can die or GET CIRCUMCIZED.

Imagin God being CIRCUMCIZED . Imagin of a pooping God !!

everybody knows that if you eat food you Poop.

is your god filled with Toxic waste ?

Can a God Pee ?

Does God need to sleep?




----------------------------------------------------------------------

DO YOU WANNA BET?

No betting in Islam but i say .

If jesus couldn't hear his enemy's in the next city when he was alive how can he hear you when he is in heaven and ur on earth?

If jesus was Such a Powerful God then who was he crying to on the Cross ( as you people claim )

he says : My God, My God , why has though forsaken me !!

If he was God then who is he talking too ?

----------------------------------------------------------------

now i want you to answer these questions.

A bleeding God ? explain this !
A crying God ? Explain this !
A human God ? Explain this !
A Dead God ? Explain this
A God that poops ? Explain this !
A god going to the bathroom?? ( where does clean come in this picture ? )

A God not knowing what's hapning in other cities when he was on earth ? Explain this ?

 

[YESHUA]

YESHUA : First let me point to you that his name is ( ISA ) not jesus or yeshua .


this is a sickness in some people who changed the names of the prophets'

like Yusuf they made it Joseph
John the baptist is Yahya .

Abraham is Ibraheeem

Ahmad is Mohammad !!

TELL ME, WHICH BOOKS WERE WRITTEN FIRST THE OLD, AND THE NEW TESTAMENTS OR THE QUR'AN?
And as for changing of names you should know and your the ones sick you have changes all the names of the prophets from the Bible into Arabic not the other way around I have a Hebrew Bible or rather two both the Old and the New Testament and guess what all the names are still the same nothing has change, your the ones who have done the name changing not us so who are sick here certainly not us but point the finger at your self plz
And really don't know about this Ahmad being Mohammad what does it have to do with name changing? Your the one telling us about Mohammad so if his name is really Ahmad why don't you just call him that?
And he's not in the Bible anyway is he? Yeah right now tell me some story about he is really Isa, Jesus or YESHUA plz make my day

-----------------------------------------------------------
YESHUA says :

NO MUHAMMAD WAS THE LEADER OF HATE AND EVERYTHING EVIL

This is your ignorance about Mohammad and you have read false Accusations and there is not one thing Mohammad did wrong in his life since he was born .

You have not read about his true life .

YOU WISH YOU WANNA LIVE WITH HIM

from how he was ( peaceful, merciful, kind, polite )

read the story of the jew who used to throw trash at his door everyday and when the jew was on his death bin Mohammad visited him to ask how is he doing and he misses his trash and the JEw became muslim and said this personality can only be from a True Messenger of God .

----------------------------------------------

YESHUA says:
[quote:55105]NO SATAN SEND HIM AS A LIAR AND WHAT HAVE YOU

Satan's worst enemy is Mohammad peace be upon him and Satan is misleading you people into hating Mohammad just like he does and satan has blinded .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YESHUA says:

YES JESUS WAS RAISED TO THE SKY AND HE IS BEING HELD BACK UNTILL HIS PEOPLE THE JEWS IS BACK AND THE LAND BEING RESTORED BACK TO IT WAS BEFORE AND SOON HE WILL COME BACK TO REDEEM HIS PEOPEL

So your telling me now Jesus is with JEWS not CHRISTIANS

WHY ARENT YOU JEWISH ????????

Note : jesus has a mission and it will be fullfilled soon .

Allah Will send him back to earth to fight JEWS & Christiands and stand with Muslim as a just ruler .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
YESHUA

And who is this anti Christ? Would it be Jesus Christ? And just how can Jesus Christ kill himself? And where would he do this plz answer if you can. You are so blind and mislead my friend you can not se what your writing is pure nonsense

The Anti Christ is the ( DAJJAL ) who will claim to be Jesus and he is a liar and Jesus will kill him .

Jesus will kill him in somewhere where tel Aviv airport is but of course when he is back there will be no technology weapons on swords and arrows with horses and bla bla bla.

You are the one whos blind.

Go read in the bible where jesus him self denies the gentil's so this means your wrong .

Go read in mathew where he says to you people oh who with little faith.

( i dunno why i am wasting my time with you faithless people )

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO WAY JESUS WAS BORN A JEW AND HIS NAME IN HEBREW IS YESHUA WHICH MEANS SALVATION

nope : hes is ( ISA )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

REALLY AND JUST WHAT DO YOU THINK HE IS TOWARDS MUSLIMS

A just ruler and a messenger of Allah .

he will be our leader in the war agaisnt the anti christ who is the liar who will claim to be God and Jesus.

Allah gave Dajjal the power of making people come back from the dead ( he can only do it once )

he will give him power to order for rain to come and turn mountains into bread .

(( TO TEST PEOPLE AND SEES WHO FOLLOWS HIM ))

And who follows DAJJAL will certinly Fail .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES HE CAN AND HE WILL TILL THE ENDS OF THE WORLD

He can't help or hear you .

Hes a normal human like me and you with no powers of God.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YES I DO THAT EVERYDAY AND GUESS WHAT HE HEARS ME EVERYTIME NOT LIKE YOUR DEAF AND DUMB ALLAH

Did christianity teach you to insult other peoples religion or faith ?

Surely this is an act of Satan and no love in your religion .

Why do you pray to someone who is not a God

Jesus himself said in the Bible he is the son of MAN and if ur so good look it up !!

In the Bible is does not teach you anything about what jesus will do when he decends and it does not state where he is gonna decend .

We muslims know exactly what he is going to do and where he is gonna decend and how much he is gonna live and how much he will accoplish

And he will also DIE !!!

Tell me how can your God Die ??

I do not believe in a God who can die or GET CIRCUMCIZED.

Imagin God being CIRCUMCIZED . Imagin of a pooping God !!

everybody knows that if you eat food you Poop.

is your god filled with Toxic waste ?

Can a God Pee ?

Does God need to sleep?




----------------------------------------------------------------------

DO YOU WANNA BET?

No betting in Islam but i say .

If jesus couldn't hear his enemy's in the next city when he was alive how can he hear you when he is in heaven and ur on earth?

If jesus was Such a Powerful God then who was he crying to on the Cross ( as you people claim )

he says : My God, My God , why has though forsaken me !!

If he was God then who is he talking too ?

----------------------------------------------------------------

now i want you to answer these questions.

A bleeding God ? explain this !
A crying God ? Explain this !
A human God ? Explain this !
A Dead God ? Explain this
A God that poops ? Explain this !
A god going to the bathroom?? ( where does clean come in this picture ? )

A God not knowing what's hapning in other cities when he was on earth ? Explain this ?[/quote:55105]

 

[Gary]

This is your ignorance about Mohammad and you have read false Accusations and there is not one thing Mohammad did wrong in his life since he was born .

Again, you are wrong.


Murder and Deceit

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."

:o :o

Remember Frost-X.... you are TRUSTING this man Muhammad with your SOUL... your eternal soul. He was prepared to deceive and murder. Did Jesus ever do anything like this?

:-?

 

[Guest]

Gary

You are Quoting Hadiths . Which you have no idea in the satus in which they are in, What happened to the Prophet peace be upon him to get justifacation from them? What and how and why were they engaged in this war? How would you like it if Jesus was being hurt by his enemy....would you deny him like Judas did? or leave him durin the time of crisis like you claim "the resurrection".....common man!

make sure you know what you are talking about and in what context you are writing in!



So do you want us just to sit at war time and let enemy's kill us without protecting ourselves ?

your argue too much and i think ur wasting your time trying to find mistakes in the Religion of islam !!

Islam has no mistakes and the Quran has no mistakes !

 

[YESHUA]

Re: Gary

You are Quoting Hadiths . Which you have no idea in the satus in which they are in, What happened to the Prophet peace be upon him to get justifacation from them? What and how and why were they engaged in this war? How would you like it if Jesus was being hurt by his enemy....would you deny him like Judas did? or leave him durin the time of crisis like you claim "the resurrection".....common man!

make sure you know what you are talking about and in what context you are writing in!



So do you want us just to sit at war time and let enemy's kill us without protecting ourselves ?

your argue too much and i think ur wasting your time trying to find mistakes in the Religion of islam !!

Islam has no mistakes and the Quran has no mistakes !

YES ISLAM HAS MISTAKES AND THE SO-CALLED HOLY BOOK OF YOURS IS FULL OF MISTAKES FIRST OF ALL YESHUA IS NOT EVEN IN THE BOOK IS HE?
And muhammad made the same mistakes as the Christians does. I know for a fact that the names in the Old Testament has not been changed the mistakers your so-called prophet made about the names is this.
In Hebrew the letter b (bet) and v (vet) is identical so actual it is not Abraham it is Avraham and it is not Jacob it is Ya'acov and so it goes it is not Hebron it is Chevron and Jerusalem is Yerushalayim and so go some where else with your name changing you have no clue what your talking about do you?
And since the Old Testament was before the New Testament and certainly way before the Qur'an your claim that the names have been change is false go read a Hebrew Bible my friend and then come back and tell me about name changing but until then stop being so smart about things you have no clue about
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA in hebrew and thats HIS real name and yes I am a jew have you ever heard of JEWS FOR JESUS? Or have you heard about Muslims for Israel? Or about ex muslims go and do some research

 

[Gary]

Muhammad allowed deceit and murder

You are Quoting Hadiths . Which you have no idea in the satus in which they are in, What happened to the Prophet peace be upon him to get justifacation from them? What and how and why were they engaged in this war?

Actually, I know the history of Islam and the deeds of Muhammad very well.

However, you seem to think that DECEIT and MURDER are OK....

:o :o

Remember Frost-X.... you are TRUSTING this man Muhammad with your SOUL... your eternal soul. He was prepared to deceive and murder. You have still not answered the question. Did Jesus ever do anything like this?

.

 

[Relic]

Gary,

Aren't they ordered to be jailed and then killed if they admit that their religion has contradictions in it and they don't recant on what they admitted to? Isn't that like Apostacy if they denounce what is said in their books? So then, they are being force to live by contradiction and lies. They have no freedom to think for themselves! They have to say they believe everything in their books, even if they know they are lies and false teachings that are wrong in their own consciences. That matters not. they have to go by what the authorities tell them. right?
If so, then Frost-X or any of the muslims who visit these boards are not allowed to admit to anything. They have to accept the lies or else they get thrown in jail until they recant, or they get be-headed in public.

So, the only way they can admit to their religion beng in error is to escape from their own country and hope they don't get caught.

I've heard of muslims being sought after once they have left their country.

I wonder if they are even allowed to read books by ex-muslims? I think they are told they are all lies. And if they don't follow what they are told, they end up in jail until they recant or they get their heads chopped off.

I'm surprised they are even allowed to get into Christians web sites. If they get caught they get into trouble if they are caught admitting to anything of the truth in the bible.

And I think the one's that come here are thinking they are going to prove how wonderful their reasoning is for killing people (jews,christians and infidels) , who are not of their religion and refuse to convert to the muslim religion. If I am not mistaken, aren't they supposed to kill all people who refuse to convert to muslim religion? Isn't that in their books somewhere? And why would a people want to live by those laws? Who would want to kill people because they refuse to live by muslim tyranny? :o

Correct me if I am wrongly stating things here. I don't want to have the wrong impression. But it is difficult to not have any other impression from the things I have read so far. too freaky bizarre for me. :o Also, aren't they only here because they are trying to convert us. And the rules of this board are to not promote any other religion. :-?


Correct me if I am mistaken. what verses did I read that stuff? I thought I read it. Kill all infidels, jews and Christians if they refuse to convert. and also that about the denying their own religion. I know they have no choice but to say their books are nothing but the truth and they preach goodness, even the killing and lying and rape is justified in their eyes. :o Right?

If so, then Wow! that is so sad they have no freedom to think for themselves and they have no freedom to live by conscience of what is right and what is wrong. They are forced to think lying is okay and that killing people for simple crimes and for not converting to muslim is okay. :o

I can't stand this.... it is just too barbaric and Neaderthol-like. All I see is blood worshipers and people who like to cut off heads and still hang people in public. They even whip themselves till blood drips from their heads when they have this certain ritual. I've seen them do it to their own little boys, as they are being held in their arms during the self mutilation festival, also. :o They parade in the streets with blood all over themselves and they think nothing of it. :o Too bizarre!
They live by way too much deception and denial of how wrong it is to live that way. They have no idea of how vulgar it is to do things that pagans did so long ago. They still practice those things as if it is okay. They are not even allowed to reason with truth. They are forced to reason with lies. Creating more and more confusion in their minds. And they still demean their women. :o

No where in God's HOLY Word does it say to self mutilate and to dishonor women and children and other people in such a horrible way.

That is NOT an example of love! Not at all! It is only pagan ritual and disrespect for others.

Please correct me where I am mistaken. (Gary only)


I am praying for them to come to know the love of Christ Jesus.
God have mercy and let them come to see how wrong it is to practice such things!

.

 

[Gary]

Hi Relic. You have asked many questions and I want to reply as correctly as I can so please give me a little bit of time so that I can make sure I respond with substantiated material.

Kind regards
Gary

 

[Relic]

.

I'm sorry Gary, I didn't mean to overwhelm you with so many questions. :

I've placed similar messages elsewhere and there was no rebuttal. I can go over the post and place references to how I came to such conclusions. I don't think I am mistaken, but quite frankly, it would be a relief to find that what I have written is not so. Because from what many of their verses indicate, it is a religion that promotes some very violent and bizarre beliefs and practices.

.

 

[Gary]

Relic: Gary, aren't they ordered to be jailed and then killed if they admit that their religion has contradictions in it and they don't recant on what they admitted to? Isn't that like apostasy if they denounce what is said in their books? So then, they are being force to live by contradiction and lies. They have no freedom to think for themselves! They have to say they believe everything in their books, even if they know they are lies and false teachings that are wrong in their own consciences. That matters not. They have to go by what the authorities tell them. Right? If so, then Frost-X or any of the Muslims who visit these boards are not allowed to admit to anything. They have to accept the lies or else they get thrown in jail until they recant, or they get be-headed in public.

So, the only way they can admit to their religion being in error is to escape from their own country and hope they don't get caught. I've heard of Muslims being sought after once they have left their country.

Gary: It is very clear that the punishment for apostasy (turning away from Islam; renouncing your faith by words or deed) is punishable by death.
http://www.muhammadanism.org/Government ... tasy_1.htm
http://www.muhammadanism.org/Government ... tasy_2.htm

'Ikrimah said: 'Ali burned some people who retreated from Islam. When Ibn 'Abbas was informed of it, he said: If it had been I, I would not have them burned, for the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not inflict Allah's punishment on anyone, but would have had killed them on account of the statement of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Apostle said: Kill those who change their religion.  Sunan Abu Dawud, Book XXXIII, Kitab al-Hudud

Also, a Muslim is not even allowed to DOUBT. If he does, he is Kufr or in disbelief…. i.e. he becomes a non-Muslim and I therefore conclude that he is also under the threat of the punishment for apostasy.

Reference: http://www.islamworld.net/condfa.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relic: I wonder if they are even allowed to read books by ex-Muslims? I think they are told they are all lies. And if they don't follow what they are told, they end up in jail until they recant or they get their heads chopped off.

I'm surprised they are even allowed to get into Christians web sites. If they get caught they get into trouble if they are caught admitting to anything of the truth in the bible.

Gary: I believe that it all falls under the same general conditions related to apostasy that I referenced above.

As some ex-Muslims have said…

We are ex-Muslims. Some of us were born and raised in Islam and some of us had converted to Islam at some moment in our lives. We were taught never to question the truth of Islam and to believe in Allah and his messenger with blind faith. We were told that Allah would forgive all sins but the sin of disbelief (Quran 4:48 and 4:116). But we committed the ultimate sin of thinking and questioned the belief that was imposed on us and we came to realize that far from being a religion of truth, Islam is a hoax, it is hallucination of a sick mind and nothing but lies and deceits.
Source: http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relic: And I think the one's that come here are thinking they are going to prove how wonderful their reasoning is for killing people (Jews, Christians and infidels), who are not of their religion and refuse to convert to the Muslim religion. If I am not mistaken, aren't they supposed to kill all people who refuse to convert to Muslim religion? Isn't that in their books somewhere? And why would a people want to live by those laws? Who would want to kill people because they refuse to live by Muslim tyranny?

Correct me if I am wrongly stating things here. I don't want to have the wrong impression. But it is difficult to not have any other impression from the things I have read so far. Too freaky bizarre for me. Also, aren't they only here because they are trying to convert us? And the rules of this board are to not promote any other religion?

Correct me if I am mistaken. What verses did I read that stuff? I thought I read it. Kill all infidels, Jews and Christians if they refuse to convert. and also that about the denying their own religion. I know they have no choice but to say their books are nothing but the truth and they preach goodness, even the killing and lying and rape is justified in their eyes. Right?

If so, then Wow! That is so sad they have no freedom to think for themselves and they have no freedom to live by conscience of what is right and what is wrong. They are forced to think lying is okay and that killing people for simple crimes and for not converting to Muslim is okay.

Gary: You are correct in saying that the final verses in the Quran encourage Muslims to practice jihad.

There is a progression in the Quran. Initially, while still in Mecca, Muhammad and his followers did not retaliate or fight. Muhammad began preaching Islam in 610 A.D. when he was still living in Mecca. His fellow Quraish tribesmen became increasingly angry because of his condemnation of their idolatry. 90 of the 114 suras originated during the 13 years he continued living in Mecca. These suras contained no instructions about fighting, in spite of the severe persecution, beatings, expulsion from their homes and death threats to which his small band of followers were subjected.

The last 24 suras are from the time after 622 when Muhammad and his followers migrated to Medina to escape from the persecution in Mecca. There Muhammad was made the political leader of the city and his followers increased significantly. The teaching about Jihad or fighting "in the way of Allah" began to develop in these Medinan suras.

The Muslims continued to gain strength until the Meccans surrendered (in 630 AD). Most of the pagans of the city then became Muslims, so Muhammad and his followers were able to take over the city and cleanse the Ka’aba of some 360 idols resident there. At this point a new order was given to fit the new situation. By this time it was evident that the Jews would not accept Muhammad's claim to be a prophet, so the list of enemies now included all unbelievers - Jews and Christians as well as the pagans. Now it is no longer just defensive fighting, but aggressive Jihad against all unbelievers is commanded. Since this is the final teaching of the Qur’an regarding Jihad, it is what is still in force today.

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... detail.htm

So the final instructions are:

• 1. Sura 9:1-6 (dissolve all treaties with those pagans who haven't kept them, giving them four months notice. But keep your treaties with other idol worshipers till the end of the time agreed upon. In the future, make no more treaties with pagans, but kill those who do not receive Islam)
  2. Sura 9:11,12,14,15 (Pagans who accept Islam become brother Muslims. Fight those who break their agreements. Allah will punish them by your hands)
  3. Sura 9:16 (Allah knows those who strive with all they have, and don't make friends with or seek protection from non-Muslims)
  4. Sura 9:19-22 (Jihad is greater than other service, and of the highest rank in the sight of Allah)
  5. Sura 9:25,26 (fighting in the battle of Hunain Jan. 31, 630)
  6. Sura 9:28 (forbid the pagans to enter the Ka’aba)
  7. Sura 9:29-31 (fight against Jews and Christians until they are subdued, because Allah's curse is on them)
  8. Sura 9:38,39,41 (don't avoid fighting, but fight with whatever you have. Otherwise Allah will punish you with serious punishment)
  9. Sura 9:52,73 (Muslims can expect either martyrdom/paradise or victory in battle. Unbelievers can expect only punishment from Allah. Fight hard against unbelievers, whose abode is hell)
  10. Sura 9:81-96 (those who are able but don't want to fight are rejected of Allah. Those unable are forgiven)
  11. Sura 9:111 (Allah gives Paradise to those who give all they have to Allah and slay and/or are slain in Jihad)
  12. Sura 9:122 (not everyone should go to fight, and those who stay are equal with those who go)
  13. Sura 9:123 (fight the unbelievers surrounding you)
  14. Sura 5:36-38 (death or torture to those who oppose the Apostle)
  15. Sura 5:54 (don't befriend Jews or Christians because they are unjust and unreliable)

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Relic: I can't stand this.... it is just too barbaric and Neanderthal-like. All I see is blood worshipers and people who like to cut off heads and still hang people in public. They even whip themselves till blood drips from their heads when they have this certain ritual. I've seen them do it to their own little boys, as they are being held in their arms during the self mutilation festival, also. They parade in the streets with blood all over themselves and they think nothing of it. Too bizarre!

They live by way too much deception and denial of how wrong it is to live that way. They have no idea of how vulgar it is to do things that pagans did so long ago. They still practice those things as if it is okay. They are not even allowed to reason with truth. They are forced to reason with lies. Creating more and more confusion in their minds. And they still demean their women.

No where in God's HOLY Word does it say to self mutilate and to dishonor women and children and other people in such a horrible way.

That is NOT an example of love! Not at all! It is only pagan ritual and disrespect for others.

Please correct me where I am mistaken. (Gary only)

I am praying for them to come to know the love of Christ Jesus.
God have mercy and let them come to see how wrong it is to practice such things!

Gary: The particular practice you refer to is Ashoura. It marks the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, the grandson of the Muhammad, in a 7th century battle for leadership of the Islamic world. Pilgrims flagellate themselves with chains and cut themselves with swords in grief at Hussein's death.

http://www.drabruzzi.com/history_of_shi ... why_th.htm

It only applies to Shia Muslims, one of the sects. Muslims can be classified in two large sects. Sunni Muslims = 80% and Shia Muslims = 20%.

I hope that helps.

Kind regards
Gary

:wink:

 

[Relic]

.

Yes, thank you Gary,

It amazes me how they leave the forum, without any further comments, once these facts are brought up to them.

.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

so tell me, was moses not born a prophet? did God not guide him into the basket and lead him back to his mother? or was he 'not a prophet' then?

tell me, what about David and Goliath? who killed who?

you say that you do not follow the laws of the OT? were they not the laws of Moses? was moses wrong?

what jesus meant when he said he came to fulfill the law, was to teach people on the correct application of the law. just as he gave his example of the fallen goat, he taught of MODERATION. as he said' i have not come to change the law'

Islam is called the 'middle way'. for example:
we fast for one month every year. it is one of the 5 pillars of Islam and is obviously VERY important to do. BUT if you find you are not able due to illness, pain, discomfort or simply stress , then it is better, and ACCEPTABLE that you do not fast! As long as we have a valid reason then we can give in charity or feed someone instead. this is moderation.

we do not pray all day and all night, but we pray 5 times a day. this is moderation. if we are on a journey , Allah has allowed us to cut the lenght of our prayer in half. this is moderation and a mercy.

we do not give all of our wealth in charity, but only what we can afford without fear of poverty, this is moderation.

Yep, Moses did murder someone. But he certainly was not a pedophile.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Be careful when you dealing with God almighty
You know Allah = God
Allah is the Arabic word of God but the true Unique God not the trinity God, LOL

Yeah, and the mormons call one of their gods jesus but it does not make him valid or any less of a demon.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

moses did not kill anyone? are you sure? what about the egyptian? and please tell me, did moses and joshua never go to war

you have not answered the rest of the questions, why?

let me answer them for you:

'tell me, what are the laws of the OT?'

Gen 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

and eye for an eye. which part of this law did Muhammed not follow?

'tell me, what are the laws of the NT concerning adultery? '

jesus said:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

pease remember:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)"

now tell me, which part of the law did Muhammed not follow?

You can question Moses all you want but until you can show where he had sex with a nine year old child, please don't dare to compare him to mohammed.

 

[ThinkerMan]

You can question Moses all you want but until you can show where he had sex with a nine year old child, please don't dare to compare him to mohammed.

But Moses did marry his half-sister, correct?

I'll admit it's not of the level of a nine-year old, but it certainly approaches "not throwing stones" territory.

 

[Solo]

The truth of Moses, his heritage:

1 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. 2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. 3 And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink. 4 And his sister stood afar off, to wit what would be done to him.

5 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it. 6 And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. 7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee? 8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother. 9 And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it. 10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.

11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren. 12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. 13 And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow? 14 And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known. 15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. 17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock. 18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? 19 And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock. 20 And he said unto his daughters, And where is he? why is it that ye have left the man? call him, that he may eat bread. 21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. 22 And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom: for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. Exodus 2:1-22

Moses' father was Amram of the Levite family of the Korathites, and his mother was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi. Moses brother was Aaron, and his sister was Miriam.


58 These are the families of the Levites: the family of the Libnites, the family of the Hebronites, the family of the Mahlites, the family of the Mushites, the family of the Korathites. And Kohath begat Amram. 59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister. Numbers 26:58-59

Moses' wife was the Midianite, Zipporah. The scriptures tell of Moses marrying an Ethiopian woman in Numbers 12:1. The Hebrew word for Ethiopian is the transliterated word Kuwshiyth, which when translated is actually Cushite. The tribal name for the Sinai Midianite tribe was called Cushan. Habakkuk 3:7 states "I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble".

The Greek Septuagint translated the Hebrew word transliterated Kuwshiyth as Ethiopia. The Greeks determined that the southern world from Africa to India was called Ethiopia, and the English travelers still called this entire area Ethiopia as late as the 17th century.
(Some information posted here came from this website.

There is some literature that discounts the Biblical representation of the record of Moses, and instead suggests that Moses was 3/4 Egyptian and 1/4 Hebrew. It also suggests that Moses was actually a Pharoah named AMENHOTEP IV and that he married Nefertitti, his half sister, whom the Bible calls Miriam. Two books that contain this story of Moses in a complete different light than the word of God are written by an Egyptian Lawyer named Ahmed Osman. His books are "STRANGER in the VALLEY of the KINGS", and "MOSES, Pharaoh of EGYPT".

My guide is the Holy Spirit, and if it isn't in the Bible, or if it contradicts the Bible, it is a deception, trap, or lie. The sad part is that many have not received the Holy Spirit yet, and these deceptions can and will lead many down the wide and broad path to destruction.