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[netchaplain]

NCh, don't mean to be overly "difficult," but it's my thought that Jesus arose from the dead in his *old body.* This was, I think, a physical resurrection much as Lazarus rose from the dead, because Jesus had the scars of his crucifixion, and he informed Mary that he had not yet gone to the Father in heaven, which is where I think he was glorified/rendered immortal.

I could be wrong on this, but this is how I've viewed it for a long time. Not only did Jesus rise to give us immortality, but he also rose to give us limited strength in our current bodies. So he rose in his old body, and then afterwards, ascended into heaven to obtain his glorified body.

Other than this, I completely agree with y'all on the idea we will have physical bodies in eternity--not energy figures that float bodily about the universe. ;) Take care!

Hi Randy! I agree with much of what you've shared, but the Lord Jesus received His new body after the resurrection, and is how He was able to ascended to the Father. God does take our old bodies and change them to the same body that Christ has now. The Spirit will bring our old bodies to life and "change" them into the new body (Rom 8:11; 1Co 15:52; 1Th 4:16, 17). It was 40 days before He ascended to God (Act 1:3).

 

[RandyK]

Hi Randy! I agree with much of what you've shared, but the Lord Jesus received His new body after the resurrection, and is how He was able to ascended to the Father. God does take our old bodies and change them to the same body that Christ has now. The Spirit will bring our old bodies to life and "change" them into the new body (Rom 8:11; 1Co 15:52; 1Th 4:16, 17). It was 40 days before He ascended to God (Act 1:3).

I understand that is your belief, and that's okay. I just don't understand what Scriptures you base that on?

As I said, my argument against Jesus rising in his glorified body is the fact he still had the scars of his crucifixion and the fact he said he wasn't finished, that he had to ascend to his Father in heaven. Why would he say that unless he didn't want to be held back in his old body?

We all know Jesus rose from the dead. But nothing that I know of in the Scriptures states that Jesus could only ascend to heaven unless his had a glorified body? Saints in their mortal bodies were always allowed to do things without having a glorified body, whether Enoch, Elijah, or Philip.

Just asking--not being argumentative.

 

[netchaplain]

I understand that is your belief, and that's okay. I just don't understand what Scriptures you base that on?

As I said, my argument against Jesus rising in his glorified body is the fact he still had the scars of his crucifixion and the fact he said he wasn't finished, that he had to ascend to his Father in heaven. Why would he say that unless he didn't want to be held back in his old body?

We all know Jesus rose from the dead. But nothing that I know of in the Scriptures states that Jesus could only ascend to heaven unless his had a glorified body? Saints in their mortal bodies were always allowed to do things without having a glorified body, whether Enoch, Elijah, or Philip.

Just asking--not being argumentative.

Yes, it's ok of course that we differ in our understanding concerning this issue.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

NCh, don't mean to be overly "difficult," but it's my thought that Jesus arose from the dead in his *old body.* This was, I think, a physical resurrection much as Lazarus rose from the dead, because Jesus had the scars of his crucifixion, and he informed Mary that he had not yet gone to the Father in heaven, which is where I think he was glorified/rendered immortal.

I could be wrong on this, but this is how I've viewed it for a long time. Not only did Jesus rise to give us immortality, but he also rose to give us limited strength in our current bodies. So he rose in his old body, and then afterwards, ascended into heaven to obtain his glorified body.

Other than this, I completely agree with y'all on the idea we will have physical bodies in eternity--not energy figures that float bodily about the universe. ;) Take care!

On what Scripture passage, RandyK, do you base your thought that Jesus' obtained a glorified body instead of his physical body only when he re-entered heaven? I think that he had his glorified, but hidden body all along. He revealed it on the Mount of Transfiguration. Peter testifies to that fact of history (2 Peter 1:16-18):

2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

Jesus entered heaven with his physical, resurrected, perfected body, scars and all. Our resurrection bodies will be these physical bodies, perfected and glorified (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

 

[RandyK]

On what Scripture passage, RandyK, do you base your thought that Jesus' obtained a glorified body instead of his physical body only when he re-entered heaven? I think that he had his glorified, but hidden body all along. He revealed it on the Mount of Transfiguration. Peter testifies to that fact of history (2 Peter 1:16-18):

It's a reasonable question, and I'm not sure it's a matter of doctrine. Things are not made very clear.

However, if you want my thoughts on this I must say that when Jesus told Mary not to hold him back, there had to be a reason for this. He was going to heaven regardless, and Mary had no power to hold him back. So what was his reason for saying this?

John 20.17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

My thought is that Jesus did not even want to be delayed out of the importance of his ascension. And what would that involve if not his glorification, enabling him to expand his ministry to a higher dimension, including us in his Salvation? And our Salvation is not just redemption in our old bodies, but redemption that includes our glorification as well.

2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

Jesus entered heaven with his physical, resurrected, perfected body, scars and all. Our resurrection bodies will be these physical bodies, perfected and glorified (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).

1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Jesus was the Son of God with power even before he received his glorified body. We are plainly told that the natural body comes first, and only after that, the spiritual body. If Jesus came as a man, he came with a natural body, prior to his receiving a spiritual body.

I don't believe that our spiritual body will be like our current bodies, and certainly will not have scars associated with our current mortal bodies. We are told in 1 Cor 15 that the spiritual body is far removed from our current natural bodies, just as one star differs from another star in glory. What we have now will be far outshined by our immortal bodies, and will not be subject to pain, harm, and death, ie no scars.