billybalke
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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An old question- Was Jesus God?
- Thread starter Poor Old Spike
- Start date
Poor Old Spike
Member
Firstly does it really matter anyway if some people think Jesus was God and some don't?
Secondly Jesus often prayed to God, so I can't see why he'd want to pray to himself, or am I missing something?
"After Jesus spent the night in prayer, everybody tried to touch him because power was coming from him" (Luke 6:12-19)
Thirdly, God himself said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
Secondly Jesus often prayed to God, so I can't see why he'd want to pray to himself, or am I missing something?
"After Jesus spent the night in prayer, everybody tried to touch him because power was coming from him" (Luke 6:12-19)
Thirdly, God himself said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
Actually, it matters a great deal. It is actually very important that we believe in the triune God, as that is the God of the bible. Anything else is just a blasphemous representation of what is. It also identifies those who are not truly Christian if they do not believe in the Trinity. The Holy Spirit would not open an individual's eyes to believe in anything less.
The Trinity, as with many things about God, is a rather complex concept. Many people do not completely understand it. All we need to understand is there are three persons in the Trinity and they are all part of the triune God. Our salvation is not incumbent upon completely understanding that dynamic.
The Trinity, as with many things about God, is a rather complex concept. Many people do not completely understand it. All we need to understand is there are three persons in the Trinity and they are all part of the triune God. Our salvation is not incumbent upon completely understanding that dynamic.
If that Someone is YHWH, then they are God.
Jesus Himself, as well as His Apostles, teach us Jesus is the Lord. The Lord God, YHWH, of the OLD TESTAMENT.
Confessing Him as the Lord, YHWH is how we obey the Gospel.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:8-13
For whoever calls on the name of the Lord, is a direct quote from Joel and refers to YHWH. (Joel 2:32)
Jesus said it this way -
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:54-59
again
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8
and again
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Revelation 22:12-13
Peter says it this way -
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1
again
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11
Peter teaches us, it was the Spirit of Christ in the Old Testament prophets.
Example:
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1
Christ Jesus is YHWH the Lord God.
Paul -
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13
again
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
JLB
Poor Old Spike
Member
I said- does it really matter anyway if some people think Jesus was God and some don't?
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Jesus said he wasn't God, and God himself said Jesus was his Son, so I daren't argue with them..
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Jesus said he wasn't God, and God himself said Jesus was his Son, so I daren't argue with them..
Scripture please.
Let's see what the Bible has to say, of whether it matters if some people think Jesus is God and some don't.
The scriptures teach us that God became flesh: God was manifested in the flesh.
- the Word was God. And the Word became flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14
John goes on to to teach us in 2 John -
- many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.
- Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 7-9
Peter says -
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 1:1
Paul -
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13
again
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
JLB
Biblesurveyor
Member
When I have "missionaries" come to my front door, (such as JV's or LDS), I always tell them up front what my position is and they often try to argue, or ask me for proof.
Using my own bible, not theirs, I could go to many scriptures, such as the ones given here, but here is one that I use a lot.
Titus 2:13: “waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,…”(ESV)
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
…the great God and our Saviour Jesus—There is but one Greek article to "God" and "Saviour," which shows that both are predicated of one and the same Being. "Of Him who is at once the great God and our Saviour." Also (2) "appearing" (epiphaneia) is never by Paul predicated of God the Father…. places God and Christ on an equal relation to "the glory" of the future appearing: a fact incompatible with the notion that Christ is not divine; indeed it would be blasphemy so to couple any mere created being with God. "
Using my own bible, not theirs, I could go to many scriptures, such as the ones given here, but here is one that I use a lot.
Titus 2:13: “waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,…”(ESV)
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
…the great God and our Saviour Jesus—There is but one Greek article to "God" and "Saviour," which shows that both are predicated of one and the same Being. "Of Him who is at once the great God and our Saviour." Also (2) "appearing" (epiphaneia) is never by Paul predicated of God the Father…. places God and Christ on an equal relation to "the glory" of the future appearing: a fact incompatible with the notion that Christ is not divine; indeed it would be blasphemy so to couple any mere created being with God. "
Razeontherock
Member
This is why I always tell people to start reading the Bible with the Gospel of John! It gets all the important stuff settled really quickly, starts with "in the beginning," and with that as a starting point you can read to the end of the Bible straight through and not get too confused until you get to Revelation.
By that time you're probably already being led by the Spirit, so what to do next isn't so hard ...
Poor Old Spike
Member
As a matter of interest, when the High Priest asked Jesus if he was the Son of God, he replied "I am".
But if he was God himself, why didn't he say so there and then?
Also, who was the 'Mighty One' at whose right hand Jesus would be sitting in heaven?
"Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:61-62)
But if he was God himself, why didn't he say so there and then?
Also, who was the 'Mighty One' at whose right hand Jesus would be sitting in heaven?
"Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:61-62)
chessman
Member
Who told you that the High Priests asked Jesus if He was “the Son of God”? That’s not what the passage cited says they asked.
The High Priests asked Jesus if He was the Christ (Messiah), not whether He was the Son of God.
Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”
Mark 14:61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Mark 14:61&version=LEBThe Jewish leaders were anticipating the Christ (the Messiah) to be a son of King David’s, not God:
Now while the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “David’s.”
Matthew 22:41-42 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 22:41-42&version=LEBWho told you this
? Cause you certainly didn’t read it in the Bible.
He is the Son of God, the only begotten of the Father.
The Great I Am. YHWH
He is the Creator of all things.
- You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
Remember what Peter says -
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11
the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ
It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophet Zechariah saying this:
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1
who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth
again
And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10
then they will look on Me whom they pierced.
Peter testified that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets, testifying of His own sufferings.
The Spirit of Christ is omnipresent, being in all the Old Testament prophets at the same time, as well as those of us today, who believe.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9
JLB
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Razeontherock
Member
Don't be confused by Jesus' humility.
Just because you can attempt to twist the meaning of a couple of passages in the bible does not change the meaning of the myriad other passages that support that Jesus is God, the Son. The first chapter of John speaks to this.
Razeontherock
Member
Not only that but the significance of Jesus saying "I am" seems to be lost on our OP here ... how is that possible?!?
Count Duckula
Member
Jesus is God and God is Jewish. Even if the Holy Spirit or the father wasn't Jewish, Mary was so by definition he was Jewish not to mention he considered himself Jewish. When you factor in the Trinity, they all are Jewish since biblically Jesus always was, just manifested into flesh 2000 years ago.
Jews and Muslims on the other hand don't have a Jewish God. They only have the father.
Jews and Muslims on the other hand don't have a Jewish God. They only have the father.
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Excuse me, but explain how God is Jewish? God does not follow a religion, He is what religions are founded on.