What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

An old question- Was Jesus God?

Count Duckula said:
Jesus is God and God is Jewish. Even if the Holy Spirit or the father wasn't Jewish, Mary was so by definition he was Jewish not to mention he considered himself Jewish. When you factor in the Trinity, they all are Jewish since biblically Jesus always was, just manifested into flesh 2000 years ago.

Jews and Muslims on the other hand don't have a Jewish God. They only have the father.
Click to expand...
God is Jewish but Jews don't have a Jewish God.
I understand. You're making fun.
I get it.
 
Knotical said:
Just because you can attempt to twist the meaning of a couple of passages in the bible does not change the meaning of the myriad other passages that support that Jesus is God, the Son. The first chapter of John speaks to this.
Click to expand...
Here's another verse, how shall we interpret it without twisting its meaning?
God said- "This is my beloved Son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
 
Razeontherock said:
How does a non-denominational Evangelist fail to recognize the Divinity of Christ?
Click to expand...
Being non-denominational means I don't need any organised religion to do my thinking for me..;)
If Jesus was God why did he say-
“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
 
Poor Old Spike said:
Being non-denominational means I don't need any organised religion to do my thinking for me..;)
If Jesus was God why did he say-
“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
Click to expand...

This also has an easy answer surely any Evangelist should know. What have you been telling people?
 
Razeontherock said:
This also has an easy answer surely any Evangelist should know. What have you been telling people?
Click to expand...
I'm paying you and other members a compliment by asking you to explain your interpretation of it for me..:)
Here it is again-
If Jesus was God why did he say-
“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
 
Poor Old Spike said:
A "certain ruler" asked him, but why does it matter who asked him?
PS- how can I access peoples profiles to find out what denomination/cult/sect they belong to?
Click to expand...

Mt 19:17 This passage tells us the man asking the question was rich and young. After leaving while being sad, Jesus went on to preach about being rich making it difficult to enter the Kingdom.

Mark 10:18 This (same) man is desperate, and Jesus reveals Himself as God by saying if you're going to call me good, acknowledge that I'm God. Which He then goes on to prove, by telling him how to "inherit eternal life." How else could Jesus have known what to tell him? (This pertains to both passages)

There's a lot more to these very brief passages though, especially in light of the rest of the Gospels. Nowhere does it say he's a ruler, although these passages are usually referred to as "the rich young ruler."

Be cautious about using the word cult, it has a very specific meaning. The best way to tell a cult is, who do they say Jesus is? If you'll recall, Jesus asked Peter that question; and Peter's response is pivotally important. You seem to have missed this part? If you've been telling people Jesus isn't God, not only is that heresy but it makes you a cult of one.

Sect is a less well defined word. Roman Catholics (RC) might say any Protestant is part of a sect, for dividing from the RCC. "Evangelical" is a useless word in this context, because all of Christianity is Evangelical. (Although I am not an Evangelist, as much as I'd like to be I don't have that gift) Evangelical is used broadly, which might or might not count as a sect.

Many of us here do not identify with any such label which are usually known as denominations. Even RC's in the US don't usually agree with all of RCC doctrine; I forget the exact number but it's way more than half. So denominational affiliation may not tell you that much.

Some people have their profile blocked so you can't read it, but if you click on the screen name, a new screen pops up. On that screen click on the screen name again, and you're in. From there, there's a few more options.
 
Razeontherock said:
..Jesus reveals Himself as God by saying if you're going to call me good, acknowledge that I'm God. Which He then goes on to prove, by telling him how to "inherit eternal life." How else could Jesus have known what to tell him?..
Click to expand...
That's strange, I can't find where Jesus said "acknowledge that I'm God" in any Bible I've ever seen.
As for your question about how did Jesus know what to tell the young man, that's easy, God told him what to say..:)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
"My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me" (John 7:17)

PS- the profile thing isn't working for me, perhaps some members are shy and want to stay hidden.
That's fine but it means we don't know what denomination or sect they belong to, they might be secret Moonies or Scientologists for all we know..;)

PS again- and if you or anybody else are wondering why I'm here, I recently got an email from CF out of the blue saying something like "Come check out the new look Christian Forums.net", so I thought I'd wander in..:)
 
Last edited:
Poor Old Spike said:
Being non-denominational means I don't need any organised religion to do my thinking for me..;)
If Jesus was God why did he say-
“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
Click to expand...
He was asking the "Rich Young Ruler" if he was calling Jesus God...and if he was....he was about to win a very big prize. But he blew it and got publicly humiliated for his sin of coveting. Anytime that someone recognized Jesus as either the Messiah (which was known to be God) or God directly Jesus asked straight forwardly "What do you want?" Meaning that they could have had any prize that God was capable of giving. (Basically anything)

God is so big...you can never back up far enough to view His entirety. God is infinite.
BUT

Jesus is fully man AND fully God at the same time...
What that means is that as much of God as God could fit into a man's body...that's Jesus...also referred to as the "Zera Elohim" or "Bene Elohim".
Or seed/son of God. Just a tiny portion of the fullness of God...which is infinite.

Think on the Mount of Transfiguration... Jesus must have felt relief up there with his Glorified body...just to have to give it up and deal with his apostles arguing and not healing people. (Totally disappointed and uncomfortable...just a word and the whole lot of them are toast....I probably would have)
 
Poor Old Spike, Jesus is identifying that He is God the Son in the passages mentioned, so He constantly will defer to God the Father's authority. That does not mean that Jesus isn't God. Jesus completely understands His role/position within the Trinity and will always correct those in error who don't understand that His power comes from God the Father.
 
Poor Old Spike said:
That's strange, I can't find where Jesus said "acknowledge that I'm God" in any Bible I've ever seen.
As for your question about how did Jesus know what to tell the young man, that's easy, God told him what to say..:)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
"My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me" (John 7:17)

PS- the profile thing isn't working for me, perhaps some members are shy and want to stay hidden.
That's fine but it means we don't know what denomination or sect they belong to, they might be secret Moonies or Scientologists for all we know..;)

PS again- and if you or anybody else are wondering why I'm here, I recently got an email from CF out of the blue saying something like "Come check out the new look Christian Forums.net", so I thought I'd wander in..:)
Click to expand...

I gave these scriptures to you in my first post.

Are you ignoring them, or do you not understand what He is saying?


Jesus said it this way -


54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:54-59


Do you understand that by saying I AM, He is stating that He is YHWH, the Lord God Almighty, [See Exodus 3:1-14] which is why the Jews picked up stones to stone Him to death, because they considered that He is speaking blasphemy, by claiming He was God Almighty.

  • Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


again

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8


and again


12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Revelation 22:12-13


Please understand that the "First and Last" is a direct reference to God.


“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6


Jesus plainly says - I am the First and Last, the Almighty.


Please don't keep saying I can't find where Jesus said "acknowledge that I'm God" in any Bible I've ever seen, when you have been given many many scriptures that show Jesus is God Almighty who became flesh.


It makes you look as if you are simply ignoring what the bible so plainly says, just for the sake of arguing.





JLB
 
Knotical said:
Don't forget the Holy Spirit in that hierarchy.

Jesus is God (the son), the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God. They are all part of the Trinity which makes up the Godhead. Three-in-one.
Click to expand...
Hello. I'm addressing what you said, but I'm addressing the Trinity because how it is projected in the world now is not quite right.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is in the hierarchy, but he doesn't have a level.............he just is.

This is the paradox of God, that the Father is Almighty, the Son under the Father and Holy Spirit believers under Christ. The Holy Spirit connects them all = God

Jesus is Lord to us because he is higher in the hierarchy.
He did not put himself equal to the Father because that is what he came to do, he came to be lower than the angels.

Hebrews 2:7 "You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with the glory and honor"

The devil is the one who doesn't understand the hierarchy
 
LovethroughDove said:
Yes, the Holy Spirit is in the hierarchy, but he doesn't have a level.............he just is.
Click to expand...

But I tell you the truth— it is better for you that I go away. For if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send Him to you. And having come, that One will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment— concerning sin, because they are not believing in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you are no longer going to see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. But when that One, the Spirit of truth, comes— He will guide you in all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but He will speak whatever He will hear. And He will declare to you the things coming. That One will glorify Me, because He will take from what is Mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is Mine. For this reason I said that He takes from what is Mine and will declare it to you.​
John 16:7-15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 16:7-15&version=DLNT

The Holy Spirit does the following:
1. declares truth (the truth is that ALL the Father has is Christ’s)

LovethroughDove said:
The devil is the one who doesn't understand the hierarchy
Click to expand...
Or does understand it and simply lies and deceives others.

2. Glorified the risen Christ

3. Guides indwelt brothers/sisters in all the truth. (Note it does not say guide believers into all truth, but rather guides us while we are in the truth)

4. I.e. the Spirit helps believers who have the truth.

5. Convicts the world of; 1) sin (that is, not believing in the truth of Christ the truth is that ALL the Father has is Christ’s, ironically per the OP), 2) righteousness and 3) judgment.

But looking Scripturally at the ‘hierarchy’ of God with respect to “the conviction of the world’s judgment (5.3), what do we find???

Scripture says:
1. The Holy Spirit does the convicting of the world’s Judgment (The terms conviction and convicted refer to the final judgment on a verdict of guilty)
2.
There is one Lawgiver and Judge— the One being able to save and to destroy. ​
James 4:12a - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=James 4:12&version=DLNT

3.
For we know the One having said [in Deut 32:35]: “Vengeance is for Me, I will repay”; and again [in Deut 32:36]: “The Lord will judge His people”.​
Hebrews 10:30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 10:30&version=DLNT

For Yahweh will judge on behalf of his people, and concerning his servants; he will change his mind when he sees that their power has disappeared, and there is no one left, confined or free.​
Deuteronomy 32:36 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Deuteronomy 32:36&version=LEB

4.
“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives-life-to them, so also the Son gives-life-to the ones whom He wishes . For the Father does not even judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just-as they are honoring the Father. The one not honoring the Son is not honoring the Father having sent Him. And He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is a son of man.​
John 5:21-23,27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 5:21-23,27&version=DLNT

The father gives the authority of judgement to the Son.

The Son executes judgment.

The Holy Spirit convicts judgment.

Why??? Because they, all three, are the One.

There is one Lawgiver and Judge— the One being able to save and to destroy.
 
chessman said:
Or does understand it and simply lies and deceives others.

Click to expand...

In regards to the devil.

John 8:43-45 "Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me!

When I said the devil doesn't understand the hierarchy, I was trying to convey he doesn't abide by it. (poor choice of my words)

Jesus abides by this chain of command.
 
Poor Old Spike said:
Being non-denominational means I don't need any organised religion to do my thinking for me..;)
If Jesus was God why did he say-
“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Luke 18:19)
Click to expand...
Jesus was not God alone. He was God indwelling the flesh. He was able to be tempted as a man in flesh. Satan knew of this and tried, using scriptures to persuade.
It is an old question that has been resolved in the scriptures old and new.
Isaiah 7:14, The Lord himself will give you a sign

Matthew 1:23,24

What other questions do you have about our Lord? We are here to help with other understandings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top