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An Open Debate on the Trinity with JLB

The Bible consist on 2/3 the Hebrew Scriptures- and NOT ONE did they mention this polytheism.
The 1/3 the Greek Scriptures doesn't EITHER.

JLB says he doesn't use the word "Trinity", but TEACHES it!
Now I can think of a word that describes THAT....
 
EVERY Trinnie ignores Christ's words, such as~

Christ openly identified his Father as the ONLY god.
John 5:44- How can you believe when you accept glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the one who alone is God?
John 17:3- Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As we can see on this forum...
 
I never have understood your question- so I jest.
Why not come directly to the point (assuming you have one)...
 
theMadJW said:
God. The Almighty God. The God of Jesus Christ. Not a 'God-the-Angel-to-Himself'.
Click to expand...


Exodus 3:1-15 shows that the Angel of the Lord was speaking to Moses. Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is Almighty God?


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
And the LORD said: “I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows. So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.”
But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?”
So He said, “I will certainly be with you. And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.”
Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’ Exodus 3:1-15



The Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses declared Himself as God.

Moses was afraid to look upon God.



JLB
 
An angel is someone (spirit or human) carrying a message from God.
Of course, I understand your your viewpoint; One God carrying the message from Another God...
 
theMadJW said:
I never have understood your question- so I jest.
Why not come directly to the point (assuming you have one)...
Click to expand...
Okay then , my question started with this:
Consecrated Life said:
" And the Lord God said, 'behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil..."
( Genesis 3:22 )

Who exactly then is, " US " ?
Click to expand...
To which you replied this:
theMadJW said:
You don't think Jehovah. His son, his angels knew about sin?
Click to expand...
To which I asked who was the mother of " His son" who is mentioned as being " one of us" in Genesis ?

At which point your theological jalopy blew a steadily wearing tire and veered into the ditch, void of anything resembling a straight answer , to a simple question:

theMadJW said:
Take a CLOSER look at "ego" (I) and especially "eimi": https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm
Click to expand...
 
Since your referred to a "mother", I looked at you as just another wacko.
Aren't you familiar with John 3:16- which says he was a son before even being SENT?

Are you implying that Jesus had a MOTHER???
 
theMadJW said:
Since your referred to a "mother", I looked at you as just another wacko.
Aren't you familiar with John 3:16- which says he was a son before even being SENT?

Are you implying that Jesus had a MOTHER???
Click to expand...
So with no maternal birthing required prior to being " SENT ", when and more importantly, how, exactly did this " Son" first come into existence, in your understanding ?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for asking!

Heb 1:1- God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2- has in these last days spoken to us by His son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3- who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4- having become so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

He was separate from God as His son- and EVERY JEW understood what a son is; contrary to Churchianity!
 
Col 1: 13- He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of His love, 14- in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.15- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all [every] creation. 16- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through him and for him.

He is separate from God, and the FIRST BORN of all creation.

Rev 3:14- And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God...

EVERY Jew also knew what "Firstborn" meant- and clergy try to say these are both titles- as if God was the son of someone else!
 
wondering said:
You bring up good points Butch5.
I know that just because a majority believes something, it does not make it right.
But in Christianity it does. I like to refer to some odd ideas as not being mainline Christianity.
Most theologians agree as to what a Christian is...most agree what doctrines are correct.
Every denomination might have a different idea on a doctrine, but all Christian denominations must believe what I listed previously.
If a person does not believe this, he cannot consider himself to be a Christian. He might be saved and love God more than any of us here, but he cannot call himself a Christian.

Here's the problem:
Jesus is the Christ just means that Jesus is the Messiah...the annointed one of God.
The One sent to be a messenger for God,,,in person,,,to give to everyone a clear message of what God expects from us.

Is this what Jesus was?
Was He a prophet sent by God with God's annointing and blessings?

If so, He was a crazy prophet because He thought He was God.
He went to the cross thinking God could send 1,000 angels if He just would have wanted Him to.
He resurrected, proving that He was more than a prophet, but was God incarnate.

The N.T. teaches that Jesus is God....come to earth as a human.

John 1:14
14and the Word became flesh....

1 John 1:1-2
1What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—
2and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

1 Timothy 3:16
16By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,

Luke 1:35
35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

and many more....
Click to expand...
Hi wondering

If that's what people must believe to be saved, then no one was saved until around 450 AD. That's the first time we see the idea of one God in three persons in church history. Read the Athanasian Creed and then read the Nicene Creed. They are very different in what they say about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Keep in mind that the Nicene Creed came first.
 
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