Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
An Open Debate on the Trinity with JLB
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
Well said.
When we break down what an angel is, it becomes clearer.
- An angel is a messenger. A messenger brings a message (word).
- An angel is a son of God.
- An angel is a spirit. The Angel of the Lord is the Spirit of the Lord.
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:17
JLB
Last edited:
Yes.
However, I believe The Word (Messenger) of God is the Lord God.
Messengers can be men or angels... or maybe a donkey!!!
JLB
Last edited:
And I meant Jesus wasn't in any form testified to be a angel of the Lord. God's presence in that bush could also have been by His Spirit. The Angel was not identified as Jesus. God's presence was certainly there as its written, "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
I am aware of the Son of Man bringing the Fathers message to the world. He stated so. I am not with any degree of certainty aware of other appearances before the Incarnation.
John still referred to Jesus, the Son of Man, as the word of Life. Jesus was and is a being.
We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us— 3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
Like Father Like Son
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body God prepared for Him.
"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"
And the Father is living in Him as they are one.
"The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him"
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
More than a messenger.
God with us.
Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us— 3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
Like Father Like Son
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body God prepared for Him.
"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"
And the Father is living in Him as they are one.
"The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him"
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
More than a messenger.
God with us.
Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”
26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
Butch5
Member
Jesus told the Jews it was He that spoke to Moses. That's why they wanted to stone Him. As I said, the word translated angel just means messenger.
Jesus was not identified in the limited roll of messenger.(Angel) I know Moses wrote of Jesus. It certainly was within Jesus's authority and skill set for Him to speak Moses while he was in the body but can you share where Jesus stated He spoke to Moses so I can add that with certainty?
Butch5
Member
In John when Jesus quoted "I am" He was alluding to the the burning bush. He said before Abraham, I am. That statement was in reply to, have you seen Abraham? He was implying that it was Him in the bush. He also sat and spoke with Abraham. Genesis 18 describes the conversation. He is called the Lord and He eats and converse with Abraham.
I will state once more the word "before" is overlooked.
Jesus=>Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
Jesus's accusers "You are not yet fifty years old," they said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
Jesus's reply, “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
That has nothing to do with Jesus speaking to Moses. Nor the context of the Fathers "I Am"
We both believe Jesus was in the beginning with the Father and therefore was before Abraham was born.
I think the Spirit of God or Holy Spirit was there in that burning bush with one of Gods angels. That is a possible answer. You can not teach with any degree of certainty that Jesus was the angel in the burning bush. Gods presence could very well be there by the Holy Spirit.
Butch5
Member
It's a quote. "I am" is a quote. Proper grammar would be, before Abraham was, I was. This would indicate Jesus saying He existed before Abraham. Saying before Abraham was, "I am" would not be proper grammar. That shows us that He is quoting Exodus. It wouldn't bother the Jews if Jesus claimed to be thousands of years old. They may question his sanity, but it wouldn't mean anything to them. However, claiming to be the "I am" who spoke to Moses would be, in their eyes, blasphemy. That is why they wanted to stone Him.
Is your question related specifically to the bush or are you looking for evidence of Christ working before the incarnation?
Consecrated Life
Member
That's fine, but if His purpose pre-Bethlehem was what you say what the heck was he doing for the millions, billions of years before the world even existed ?
You think maybe, that just being created Himself, He needed a few millions years of training before the World's creation?
You think maybe that is why He was not allowed to " sit down on the right hand of Majesty " for all those millions, billions of years ?
Just being the young wet behind the ears, upstart son that He was after first being created?
I know that you know just about everything right now , but do you think when you get to heaven you will have full knowledge of everything there is to know about the intimate relationship between God and His beloved Son ?
"...glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee
before the world began. " ( John17:5 )
Its "before" Abraham was born "I am" That is not I AM that I AM. or just I AM
Jesus stated, (context witness), that Abraham saw His day and rejoiced. That's why they asked with sarcasm and unbelief "you are not yet 50 years old and you have seen Abraham?"
Jesus was very thorough on the road to Emmaus with Cleopas and his companion explaining the scripture starting with Moses that spoke of Him. ( And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.) If Jesus was the Angel in the burning bush that would be weight for the testimony. The writer of Hebrews had citations from all over the Holy Scriptures about Jesus. Yet not one made any mention of Jesus being the Angel in that burning bush.
Gods firstborn would be a being not a people or Word or radiance and such a being would make such a statement, "before Abraham was born I am"
Butch5
Member
What millions and billions of years are you talking about? Paul said Jesus was the first born of all creation.
Also, I'd submit that people don't go to Heaven. That's not in Scriptures
Butch5
Member
That Paul didnt say the Angel of the Lord in the Bush was Christ doesnt mean it wasn't Christ. That's an appeal to silence and fallacious.
I pointed out that Jesus quoted, "I am". As I said, it wouldn't be proper grammar. If you don't accept that, that's up to you.