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II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 do not mention sexual relations between evil angels and women. Notice first II Peter 2:4:
(2 Peter 2:4 does not specifically mention sexual relations, Agreed. We don't know by reading this scripture alone what their sin was. Notice though, that even though they were cast down to hell, and it is said that they are delivered into chains of darkness, that they are not in prison where movement is impossible, for they visit heaven on occasion as you noted, and even walk to and fro on the earth.)
Here the only clue we are given is that some of the angels "sinned" and for that reason God "cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment…."
To conclude that this is speaking of an event other than the original angelic rebellion against God is unwarranted. They were thrust out of Heaven as their dwelling place (Rev. 12:4). They only re-visit Heaven upon occasion, as shown in Job 1 and other scriptures.
(Yes. The lack of dwelling place in heaven, is probably the reference to darkness is my thought.)
The nature of that original sin of some of the angels is mentioned in Jude 6. Let's look at Jude 6 in context, beginning verse 5:
Again, we must read the Bible for the specific things it says about a matter. The ancient Israelites whom God had saved out of slavery in Egypt were later destroyed in the desert – they did not enter the Promised Land because of unbelief.
The Israelites ultimately failed to trust the One who had delivered them from Pharaoh and harsh slavery. They fell into complaining, gross sin, and rejection of their God-given leader, Moses.
The sin of the angels is characterized as not staying "within their own position of authority"and leaving "their proper dwelling." What was the charge given to the angels at the creation of man? What is their responsibility towards us?
(The Angels charge was to minister unto man and to be messengers I believe. But they stopped serving God and began serving themselves. The reference in Jude 6 "chains under darkness" Would reasonably link this to the 2 Peter and perhaps give indication of their sin? If we keep reading in Jude at this point, it goes on in verse 7 to give clarification, it is still talking about the Angels. It compares the Angels sins to Sodom & Gomorrah (see the term used "even as" as agua pointed out also, and then "in like manner") it is comparing them, and giving warning to us believers, and says that it both incidents are given as examples. If the chapter is not speaking of the Angels also going after strange flesh also (in like manner as Sodom & Gomorrah did) then, where is the detail about the Angels sin? Why would they be mentioned at all here? Here is a warning for us, don't go around practicing strange sexual acts and going after strange flesh, as the Angels did, as the sodomites did in S&G...if the Angels sin were not the same, then it gives zero clarification about their sin and is thrown in out of context and adding confusion to Gods Word. God doesn't write like that brother. "Even as", "In like manner", "the Angels who sinned"...this is clear whether we like it or not.)
And, further in Hebrews 1:13-14:
Thus, the clear implication from the rest of Scripture is that the evil angels rebelled at the thought of serving mankind.
(Agreed.) You've conflated the strict meaning of Jude to charge angels with something that the Bible does not charge them with.
(Then why mention the Angels in those verses without clarification of their sins?) The Bible clearly states that it was the Sodomites that went after strange flesh.
(yes, and the Angels!) Yes, we also see that angels have sinned. They left their first estate and habitation (heaven)
(That was a consequence, they were cast down out of heaven). Nowhere do we see them charged with fornication.
(In Jude 7 we do)
I've highlighted the verses that speak about men in
GREEN, about Angels in
RED:
[Jude 1:3-7 KJV] 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Where do we see mention of anyone, other than men, giving themselves over to fornication?
(In Jude 6 & 7. This is where we disagree on interpretation. I'm not the only one who sees it this way. I didn't make this up, and I don't like it. I wish it were not so, but am I to reject the truth simply because it is distasteful to me?) Again, the 'proof' text cited fails to establish the view.
(disagree brother.) Believers are the 'sons of God', not fornicators.
(I refer you to post #335 of mine for what my thoughts, beliefs, and scriptures are which identify who the sons of God are.) Unbelief is the sin common between fallen man and fallen angel.
(Actually, technically speaking they are not fallen, but were cast down, but that's so involved so as able to be a thread unto itself, it is slang or loosle reference to say fallen angels, but for the purposes of our discussion, sure we can refer to them as fallen angels, we know what we mean.)
Cordially,
Sparrow
