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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Angels Do Not Have Sex
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Deborah13
Member
Yes, I agree that Paul was talking about is our physical body compared to our spiritual body. I think the scripture makes that clear.
When Paul speaks of our bodies as being a tabernacle that contains our inner man we can envision the tabernacle in the wilderness. It was constructed to house the ark and to be taken down, moved to another location, and reassembled. The ark remained the ark outside the tabernacle but was then placed back in the reassembled tabernacle. I can see the Resurrection of the Messiah in this picture. He was the Firstfruits of the resurrection. The scripture says that we don't know what we will be like but that we will be like Him.
2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
These are the scriptures that I see mention and compare what the angels did.
YLT
Jud 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord--Jesus Christ--denying, [lasciviousness=excessive by definition and use in scriptures]
1) impious - unholy
2) perverting the grace of God to excess - "shall we continual in sin? No, God forbid!"
3) Denying God and the Lord Jesus - their authority and deity
Jud 1:6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,
Jud 1:8 In like manner, nevertheless, those dreaming also the flesh indeed do defile, and lordship they put away, and dignities they speak evil of,
Jud 1:9 yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!' [Michael keeping his place did not dare to overstep his bounds of authority, authority that was only the Lord's]
Jud 1:13 wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept. [stars = both the angels and men being my belief]
Jud 1:14 And prophesy also to these did the seventh from Adam--Enoch--saying, `Lo, the Lord did come in His saintly myriads,
satan and 1/3 of the angels, did not keep their own principality, their place in the government in heaven. They spoke evil of the Lord and His government/authority (dignities). They are stars gone astray and at least some of them are in chains held for judgement.
I SUSPECT that the ones imprisoned were the leaders of the rebellion and lead other lower ranking angels astray.
A
agua.
Guest
I like that comparison to the Ark Deb. With this use of habitation from Paul which refers to our body we can allow that it may also refer to the Angel's spiritual body right ?
Ok Deb. We know satan isn't currently bound and he's the big daddy of them all so I don't see how his captains would be. I do agree however that these particular Angels were of some higher ranking and the Book of Enoch suggests this too I think. I suggest reading the passage in light of Paul's definition of habitation and it will read differently.
Jud 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation ( spiritual body ) , he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Edward
2024 Supporter
I think that's right brother. I used to think the particular angels were literally bound and restrained, but the more I consider these things am (think, lol) beginning to understand that they are actually bound in darkness, which is to say confined to the earthly realm, being under darkness much ion the same way we are because we con't go into the spiritual realm (Heaven specifically) at will. (I think! lol)
but the angels, being of a higher rank and so have the sins assigned to them. In fact Enoch states specifically...against Azazel (< spelling ?) write "All sin". i think you're right on on this brother.
A
agua.
Guest
Ah ok Ed I hadn't considered that definition of the chains under darkness interesting. At this stage I'm thinking that the Angels who did this thing are bound in Tartarus until judgement day as per 2Peter.Unless you suggest Tartarus is here on Earth ?
2Pe 2:4 LITV For if God did not spare sinning angels, but delivered them to chains of darkness, thrust down into Tartarus, having been kept to judgment;
Notice the similarity between 2 Peter 4 and Jude about this subject. They are describing the same thing. This doesn't mean other Angels don't fall in this way though imo because the world has basically followed the same path post flood.
Yes Agua, I agree.
These angels unlike Satan and his angels are confined down in hell [Tartarus] for the specific sin during the days of Noah.
Satan is called the "god of this world", and "the prince of the power of the air".
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
...in heavenly places.
These angels who sinned during these days of Noah are confined in chains down in hell, awaiting the judgement.
The day will come and is coming when Satan will be cast down to earth, which will be during the great tribulation, 3 1/2 years. Revelation 12:9
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
I don't know where Tartarus is. It could be on earth i suppose. Homer's Iliad describes it as being as far below Hades as the earth is below Heaven. I see that Strongs says that it is the lowest abyss of Hades. So I don't know and don't want to find out, lol. I think it could be. Far underground. In a Spiritual realm of course, but I digress. I was thinking that maybe they weren't actually bound but merely restrained or stranded in our natural realm. See that's what happens when I don't use the Strongs on (ALL!) passages, think too much get ideas, lol. This morning I see in Strongs that it is as both you and JLB say. Bound. In Tartarus.
Even the book of Enoch says that they are bound (13.1). Curiously enough though, read this passage from Enoch (The fallen angels had hired Enoch to write out a petition from them to God, asking for forgiveness and mercy for their sins. Enoch wrote it out, and then had a vision, or a dream wherein he was told what to tell the fallen angels about it, an answer from god to their petition. This is one verse from that:
14.5 And from now on, you will not ascend into
Heaven, for all eternity, and it has been decreed
that you will be bound on Earth for all the days
of eternity./ (Enoch)
So maybe they are on earth? They are bound though so if it happened again it would have had to be different fallen angels.
Chopper
Member
Hi JLB, I'm assuming that you read my post in Genesis. I will admit that "Sons of God" is confusing because it is mentioned in Scriptures as pertaining to Angels such as Job 38:7.
My favorite theologians, Albert Barnes, John Darby, John Gill, Matthew Henry, and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown all state that the sons of God are not angels, good or bad.
The following is a quote from Albert Barnes.
"There are two stages of evil set forth in Gen_6:1-4 - the one contained in the present four verses, and the other in the following. The former refers to the apostasy of the descendants of Sheth, and the cause and consequences of it. When man began to multiply, the separate families of Cain and Sheth would come into contact. The daughters of the stirring Cainites, distinguished by the graces of nature, the embellishments of art, and the charms of music and song, even though destitute of the loftier qualities of likemindedness with God, would attract attention and prompt to unholy alliances. The phrase “sons of God,” means an order of intelligent beings who “retain the purity of moral character” originally communicated, or subsequently restored, by their Creator. They are called the sons of God, because they have his spirit or disposition. The sons of God mentioned in Job_38:7, are an order of rational beings existing before the creation of man, and joining in the symphony of the universe, when the earth and all things were called into being. Then all were holy, for all are styled the sons of God. Such, however, are not meant in the present passage. For they were not created as a race, have no distinction of sex, and therefore no sexual desire; they “neither marry nor are given in marriage” Mat_22:30. It is contrary to the law of nature for different species even on earth to cohabit in a carnal way; much more for those in the body, and those who have not a body of flesh. Moreover, we are here in the region of humanity, and not in the sphere of superhuman spirits; and the historian has not given the slightest intimation of the existence of spiritual beings different from man." (Used by permission of e-Sword)
Because of Seth's line, they called upon the Name of the Lord, they were considered sons of God. When Seth's sons committed apostacy and joined themselves with the daughters of Cain, their titles changed to daughters of men or Seth's sons of God, Cain's sons of man. I not sure if Psalm 82:6 You are god's, sons of the Most High would be any proof or not.
It seems to me, JLB, that the idea of angels having the equipment for making children thru earthly women is refused by a good many of the interpreters of the Bible that you and I consider genuine. So this is what I believe.
tarturoo/ tarturus is similar to the idea in sheol called abaddon. that is where the rich man was in sheol. the lowest of the low go there and there is no coming back.
A
agua.
Guest
Chop I have a couple of questions about Mr Barnes assessment here. ( I like Barnesy's commentary very much ). He states Angels have no race or distinction of sex and yet the scriptures indicate they are all male. If we take this position of neutral gender then we also can claim Yahweh is gender neutral ? It's also worth considering if they are all male it would explain why they couldn't marry in heaven as Ed has previously mentioned.
Also Mr Barnes suggests ( very discretely ) that here on Earth different species cannot "cohabit" in a carnal way and if he means reproduce he's correct. If he means copulate this is incorrect because we know of the prohibition against bestiality. I sense a position of disgust is held here rather than ivestigation imo
I'm always a bit confused how we can suggest Angels can't possibly have the equipment to procreate when they come to Earth as men when we know they did eat etc. If they ate/drank we can assume they had a digestive tract etc and urinated don't you think ?
Thank you for sharing with us what you have studied. I know this is a controversial subject that most won't discuss.
Would you consider the idea that a son of God can not be produced by a man and a woman, but rather a son of God is a being that is created directly by God.
Either created or born of God.
I believe if you will study this truth, you will find that the sons of God were angels.
In the New Testament, people are referred to as sons of God if they are born again, which is to say, born of God.
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten of the Father.
Believers are born of God.
Adam is created by God directly and is son of God.
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. Luke 3:37
Adam's offspring are called; a son of man, or daughters of men.
Jesus is referred to as the Son of man, and the Son of God.
What man in any genealogy that was born among women is referred to as a son of God.
Man can not beget a son of God.
Angels are referred to as sons of God.
Please consider that the term, sons of God and daughters of men are a contrast of species.
JLB
That would be 2 Peter.
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-5
JLB
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
Matthew 22:30
In heaven.
The issue is on earth about certain angels who left there proper domain and appeared in this realm as men.
Please consider this when studying this controversial subject.
JLB
Yes ma'am.
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Sons of God refer to men who are saved.
If you are a child of God, then you can be called a son of God or daughter of God
Galatians 3:26
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
There are the unsaved and they are called the children of wrath.
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others
Also, there is a verse that calls satan someone's father
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
If you are a child of God, then you can be called a son of God or daughter of God
Galatians 3:26
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
There are the unsaved and they are called the children of wrath.
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others
Also, there is a verse that calls satan someone's father
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
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H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
To what does "then that is possible" refer ?