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Angels Do Not Have Sex

Yes and now you have joined the original posters in their attempts to destroy their chances to live in Heaven.

I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to say something. Whether or not angels have genitals is not a salvific issue, and quoting from the book of Enoch, even though it isn't recognized as scripture, is not going to keep anybody from "living in Heaven". In fact, Jude 1:14, which is scripture, quotes the book of Enoch. Nobody is going to be damned to Hell for anything posted here in this thread.

The TOG​
 
Ca
I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to say something. Whether or not angels have genitals is not a salvific issue, and quoting from the book of Enoch, even though it isn't recognized as scripture, is not going to keep anybody from "living in Heaven". In fact, Jude 1:14, which is scripture, quotes the book of Enoch. Nobody is going to be damned to Hell for anything posted here in this thread.

The TOG​
Can you absolutely guarantee that to be true?
 
I think some confusion exists because Jude follows his speech about the angels with this verse that mentions Enoch.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

And so some think that Enoch may have actually written the Book of Enoch.
 
I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to say something. Whether or not angels have genitals is not a salvific issue, and quoting from the book of Enoch, even though it isn't recognized as scripture, is not going to keep anybody from "living in Heaven". In fact, Jude 1:14, which is scripture, quotes the book of Enoch. Nobody is going to be damned to Hell for anything posted here in this thread.

The TOG​

Thank you TOG. That is exactly what I have been wanting to say.
 
I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to say something. Whether or not angels have genitals is not a salvific issue, and quoting from the book of Enoch, even though it isn't recognized as scripture, is not going to keep anybody from "living in Heaven". In fact, Jude 1:14, which is scripture, quotes the book of Enoch. Nobody is going to be damned to Hell for anything posted here in this thread.

The TOG​

:goodpost Totally agree.
 
Mr Taylor, brother. you sound very convicted and convinced that you have the answers to this and seem to be standing in some pretty serious judgment against me on it, which probably isn't right in and of itself. If I am wrong and you know this, would not the better position be to help the lost brethren to see the error of their ways, in brotherly love and not in a hard hearted manner? We've been begging for some academic and scriptural discussion from you about this, and you will not engage, other than to become emotional and judgmental about it all. That's not right brother!

This topic is weird enough to be very interesting to me, and so I have done quite a bit of homework on it. Not trying to build a particular doctrine in any way specific, just honest homework study to see where it goes. This is where it has taken me to. I didn't ask for it, i didn't concoct this theory on my own, and I don't like it, what it seems to say. But studiously speaking it has went where IT went and I simply paid attention. Now then, I have made a grave error in this, and it is not the truth...then it should be easily debunked and the truth shown very plainly. Scripturally...Academically.

I'm wrong you say? ok then brother. Help a confused brother out. Do you have this in your heart? I know one thing and i assume you would have to agree...The truth is in the scriptures. Set me straight me straight brother, please. Point me towards the scriptures which will show me I'm wrong. You have offered none. Zero scriptures in the debunking of this awful heresy as you call it. Why wont you do this brother? I can learn. I am open minded. So show me. You say that not just one scripture can a doctrine make, so I have shown you quite a few additional scriptures which all support my view on this. Where is your scriptures to consider? I'll take a look at it. The truth is more important than being right. A brother brought to my attention that I may have used my Amos scripture in error to support my view. I'm looking closely at it now because he may be right, and I do not like to be wrong or to post incorrect information. the brother brought this to my attention intelligently, and in brotherly love, which I can comprehend. May I suggest that you do the same?

I'm sorry brother but it will take more than getting mad and stamping your feet with a because I said so, to shine real light upon your view of me being wrong.

yet you quote enoch as such. shall I bring what the Talmud says about the nephilum and moses' height? its funny. the giants being as tall as mountains or a 100 ft. if they are at least 100ft what animal would be alive?

My information is that Enoch was scripture and the Angel view was widely held to be the truth up until around the 5th century, then the church became uncomfortable with the view and contrived the son of Seth view to make it more palatable or politically correct. I did not quote it as scripture, however, I do lean towards believing that it could indeed be scripture because...it is referred to in our bible, which is a fairly good marker for it. Also, Enoch wrote it. A very wise and Godly man. I believe that even most here on the forum would agree to that. So Enoch is good, so much so that he was taken up by God himself, and yet his book is heresy and to be rejected?! Uhh, I'm sorry brother but that does not compute for me.

So..yeah, I do tend to lean towards giving the book of Enoch credibility. I don't quote it as scripture but for non-salvational topics and information I do think that it is a useful tool. I have been reading Enoch on and off for awhile now and I haven't found anywhere that it contradicts scripture. It doesn't deny Christ. It is said to be for a distant generation, which we are. So as with all things to prayerfully approach it does not seem a bad thing to me.

Another flag (to me) that it may indeed be a credible book is the fact of how vehemently it is rejected. That's what they want to do with the truth in todays world. Deception. keep people from the truth. jason, aren't you the one which started the thread and tried to explain how Christians should own and read the Satanic bible? So that they could somehow engage in debate with satanists on their own ground or something like that? So am I to read the satanic bible and reject Enoch?! Uh, yeah, I'll get right on that brother. (sic).
 
This can, now, go astray so easily so let's fill in some context at this point. When I was raised to be an Atheist, forties and fifties, there was great reverence for the Word of God inside the Local Church that poured out the doors and windows and flooded the neighborhood, city, state and country. On the few times my aunt drug me there I recall hearing sermons from both of the Testaments. Today we have risen? from the depths and we are so much smarter than we were before.

Today we have redefined the New Testament Christian to mean all we need are the writings of the New Testament. We also have refined that situation further and we, now have, in our presence, the New Covenant Christian. One of these has trained me to understand that none of the Bible, save the Sermon on the Mount is all a "true" Christian needs to live a Holy Life, never to sin again. Of course all of these are lies but they are heresies that are offered up every day to the world and there are those that will die and go to Hell believing these lies.

Three time God cautioned us, twice in the Old Testament and once in the New to neither add nor to subtract from the Word of God or to suffer His wrath. Before Satan was so deeply involved inside the Church of Christ, the Church Universal, people understood there was divine wisdom to be found in the Old Testament/Jewish Bible. Today we do not know the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the LORD because we do not need the nasty Old Testament and the vicious, mean, God found therein.

I still do my best to handle the Word of God as gently as possible because to do as is becoming the custom is taught against by the author, God. This string is a very good example of that of which I speak. There is a great deal of speculation as to what the message in this one verse says. I and the OP have been very clear about what it does not say and we are right, please, read the verse.

(Edited, ToS 2.4, insinuation to belittle or discredit, Obadiah) if you will take the time to read Mal. 3:6a you will discover God never changes. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, John 1:1-3 and the wrath of God has not fallen on us yet but it is comming sooner than any want it.
 
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Edward, did I say one shouldn't read it? did I say I quote the satanic bible and build a doctrine from it. the fifth century. the problem for you Edward then when the lxx was coined it had extra books and all of them were used by the early church according an implied statement by Justin martyr. I have posted that problem. it wasn't in the bible by Jerome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon

so why didn't the rcc or Jerome allow it? martyr didn't mentione enoch either. surely if john or the early church thought that way they would have passed it on. martyr did mention a lot of on enoch. others that I haven't read may have.

I also make a point to avoid quoting sages whom believe the nephilum, I have quoted rashi who does. but ramban doesn't and most jews don't.
 
Thank you TOG. That is exactly what I have been wanting to say.

Yeah, exactly. I was writing much the same thing wile you were posting. This is a non-salvational issue and we should all try to not get so worked up about it and take offense. truth can be stranger than fiction. If the Angel view is wrong, great! Let some godly and wise brother post scriptures and truths which will debunk it. That is never done in these threads on this topic by anyone. that leads me to believe that...well, you know. :)

Bless you all in Christ.
 
Mr Taylor, brother. you sound very convicted and convinced that you have the answers to this and seem to be standing in some pretty serious judgment against me on it, which probably isn't right in and of itself. If I am wrong and you know this, would not the better position be to help the lost brethren to see the error of their ways, in brotherly love and not in a hard hearted manner? We've been begging for some academic and scriptural discussion from you about this, and you will not engage, other than to become emotional and judgmental about it all. That's not right brother!

This topic is weird enough to be very interesting to me, and so I have done quite a bit of homework on it. Not trying to build a particular doctrine in any way specific, just honest homework study to see where it goes. This is where it has taken me to. I didn't ask for it, i didn't concoct this theory on my own, and I don't like it, what it seems to say. But studiously speaking it has went where IT went and I simply paid attention. Now then, I have made a grave error in this, and it is not the truth...then it should be easily debunked and the truth shown very plainly. Scripturally...Academically.

I'm wrong you say? ok then brother. Help a confused brother out. Do you have this in your heart? I know one thing and i assume you would have to agree...The truth is in the scriptures. Set me straight me straight brother, please. Point me towards the scriptures which will show me I'm wrong. You have offered none. Zero scriptures in the debunking of this awful heresy as you call it. Why wont you do this brother? I can learn. I am open minded. So show me. You say that not just one scripture can a doctrine make, so I have shown you quite a few additional scriptures which all support my view on this. Where is your scriptures to consider? I'll take a look at it. The truth is more important than being right. A brother brought to my attention that I may have used my Amos scripture in error to support my view. I'm looking closely at it now because he may be right, and I do not like to be wrong or to post incorrect information. the brother brought this to my attention intelligently, and in brotherly love, which I can comprehend. May I suggest that you do the same?

I'm sorry brother but it will take more than getting mad and stamping your feet with a because I said so, to shine real light upon your view of me being wrong.
I have been trying to help you, in love, but you are refusing to do the study (Edited, ToS 2.4 insinuation to belittle or discredit. Obadiah.)
 
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besides my pastor believe the sons of god were angels whom had sex with women and are in bondage waiting the final judgement. the church I go to has no doctrinal position on this. so when I taught that to the kids I avoided that problem. pastor knows that I don't believe in that position.
 
Yeah, exactly. I was writing much the same thing wile you were posting. This is a non-salvational issue and we should all try to not get so worked up about it and take offense. truth can be stranger than fiction. If the Angel view is wrong, great! Let some godly and wise brother post scriptures and truths which will debunk it. That is never done in these threads on this topic by anyone. that leads me to believe that...well, you know. :)

Bless you all in Christ.
You are, of course, wrong. Correct in that this will not help any to be saved, wrong in that what you believe, what you stand on will either save you or send you to Hell. (Edited, ToS 2.4 insinuation to belittle or discredit. Obadiah.)
 
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(Removed, referred to removed comment in another post. Obadiah.) I just began reading the thread and wanted to make sure that what was being presented as a topic of fact, may in fact not be an absolute fact and that there is a credible alternate view that is available for consideration. In fairness to all readers, any credible alternate view should be made available for their consideration, and they can decide for themselves rather than merely being told "this is it! Believe this!", which would be ludicrous.

Some very highly educated pastors have studied this even more than I, and they make sense. I'm not saying that I am absolutely correct, i am saying...maybe maybe not, here is the alternate view.

blessings.
 
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There is a perceptual matter that falls into this Kicked. If I use my best Texas speech I would explain to you, "It rained cats and puppy dogs here last night." Now, I have a Chain Link fence around 3/4 of an acre and if I go outside the ground will be soaked after the 6 inch rain last night but... but I will not find one pup nor will I finde one cat, dead or alive except the ladies here let the dogs or one of my cats outside. It still rained cats and puppy dogs last night.

This very use of context to define, by the useage, is the reason the KJV and the other thought for thought translations are so popular. The reader does not need to hurt their head pondering and they do not need to be submissive to the Holy Spirit, they believe, to receive something they think they can work with, the translators have ?already? done the hard work for them.

A dictionary explanation can be very useful or it can be useless. The matter is just as my favorite Jr. High Teacher taught us, context, context, context and then go back and find the context, it matters.

God bless brother.

I may not be that intellectually sophisticated, but it seems to me that you may be saying to keep scripture in context. I do always make my best effort to do that as I have been through the NT hundreds of times and really have dug into the OT the past couple years. I believe I have a pretty good handle on the context but am always willing for Jesus to reveal more to me. BOY, DOES HE NOT disappoint! I am not talking about outer things we experience in our physical humanity, but deeper things of the Spirit and TRUE heart. Thus, it's important to know that order to see him (who is ALL TRUTH!) and those things, we have see a deeper spiritual meaning that is going on that what our natural carnal, human mind (that only see's and understand physical things) understands. Many of us are not aware or don't yet fully understand the difference between the Old Covenant of law and the New Covenant of grace and truth in the Spirit and not the flesh. Or we do not know that they don't mix. We can have no mixture of "leavening of the law" (putting any law in with the new covenant). Any amount of law will kill you every time.

For example, many of us know that the Old Covenant of LAW the Israelites were under (which was a covenant of the flesh or outer, physical man, was only a SHADOW of the real and TRUE covenant which is in the TRUE realm of the Spirit. The realm of Earth where flesh exists is not the TRUE substance as it is a shadow. Every try to grab a shadow? Check this out.

For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near Hebrews 10:1 NASB (Check out verse 2, it's AWESOME as it tells us the HUGE difference between OLD and NEW covenants!)

Here is more to show us the Old covenant of law is only a shadow or copy of the TRUE covenant which is in the Spirit (TRUE) realm.

Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” Hebrews 8:4-5

If the covenant of Jesus were on physical Earth, he would NOT be a priest at all. See verse 5 where it tells us again that the law is only a shadow and copy of the true things in the Spirit or heaven.

So, if we follow that, we begin to realize that the NEW and TRUE (SPIRITUAL) Covenant is NOT on the PHYSICAL Earth or for PHYSICAL man (Adam) but for the new creation or SPIRITUAL man born ABOVE and not below. Adam, (who is in the "copy and shadow of Earth) is always under law and he will always sin and thus, he will always die. The wages of sin is death and this is what kills Adam. Being reborn is being transferred or "translated" from the realm below on Earth under law (and sin and death) to HEAVEN itself where you are a TOTALLY NEW creation. This next BEAUTIFUL verse shows us this.

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son Col 1:13 NASB

I say all this to point out that "Adam's covenant" is law and he will die, all of him. If he dies and is reborn in Christ, then EVERYTHING changes. Things that meant one thing under his Old Covenant of law, now mean something totally new and totally different. For example, who or what was an Israelite or "Jew" under the old covenant of Adam (flesh)? Well, we know it was a physical Israelite who was physically circumcised in his flesh and under the Mosaic law and 10 commandments (law for flesh or outer man). So, who is an Israelite under the completely NEW covenant (a SPIRITUAL) covenant? Paul tells us:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:28-29 NASB

This is just ONE EXAMPLE of this. Again, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED under the new and TRUE or SPIRITUAL covenant. People of the flesh or natural human thinking do NOT see this and do not know this because it takes GOD to show us this in our deep, inner man. Anyone who has not been shown this will always fall under LAW BASED THINKING and will experience guilt and condemnation because their conscience will always tell them they need to be PERFECT!

So, my friend, let's go beyond what we see and into the things we DON'T see because that is where the TRUTH occurs. All the outer things we see are of the flesh and are passing away as they are of the flesh, the law and the OLD Covenant. It's also important to KNOW that you can NOT MIX the covenants or the creations! They don't mix at all. New Wine (new covenant thinking) does not fit into Old wineskins (old covenant mindsets)! ALL the old creation will pass away as it is under law and the law always kills anything that isn't God himself because God is the ONLY one who does not sin. Adam's physical creation is of 'darkness" and we are children of the Light. The darkness and "night" is passing. Day is almost here! YES!

God bless,

kicked
 
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I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to say something. Whether or not angels have genitals is not a salvific issue, and quoting from the book of Enoch, even though it isn't recognized as scripture, is not going to keep anybody from "living in Heaven". In fact, Jude 1:14, which is scripture, quotes the book of Enoch. Nobody is going to be damned to Hell for anything posted here in this thread.

The TOG​

Ca

Can you absolutely guarantee that to be true?

Yes, I can. There are a number of places where the New Testament tells us what we need to be saved. You know them as well as I do, so I won't quote them all here. But none of them mention anything about angels' genitals nor about reading or quoting extra-Biblical books. If those things affected our salvation, it would be mentioned in the Bible. God does not make His children guess how to be saved. He tells them.

The TOG

 
(Post removed as it was just a quote of another member's post with nothing added or commented on. Obadiah.)
 
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I may not be that intellectually sophisticated, but it seems to me that you may be saying to keep scripture in context. I do always make my best effort to do that as I have been through the NT hundreds of times and really have dug into the OT the past couple years.
Kicked,
Much of what you present here is worthy of being discussed but not in the thread about angels having sex. I pray you will start a thread about your New Covenant Christian views but this string is aqlready to far off track because I tried to explain the reasoning I was taught to use by the Spirit.
 
Yes, I can. There are a number of places where the New Testament tells us what we need to be saved. You know them as well as I do, so I won't quote them all here. But none of them mention anything about angels' genitals nor about reading or quoting extra-Biblical books. If those things affected our salvation, it would be mentioned in the Bible. God does not make His children guess how to be saved. He tells them.

The TOG​
TOG,
It would be nice, I admit, if it were that simple but if it were that simple Satan and all the Demons will spend Eternity in Heaven and we know that is not true. But, and this but is important, but they do believe! Many, today, of the New Testament and the New Covenant persuasion teach this fallacy but much teaching does not make a thing true.

I am dumped on, often, because I teach, without the book of Genesis there is no Judaism and with Judaism, there is not Christianity. The problem is solved by obedience to the teaching of Jesus in the New Testament. We are taught to obey His commands and in John 1:1-3 we learn that Jesus is the Creator God of the Old Testament.

And then if we are to strive to be as Jesus is, the New Testament, the commentary, was not written when Jesus taught from the scriptures. I also wish people would get their minds out of the gutter and that is what I endeavor to lead them to now.

May God bless.
 
Yes, I can. There are a number of places where the New Testament tells us what we need to be saved. You know them as well as I do, so I won't quote them all here. But none of them mention anything about angels' genitals nor about reading or quoting extra-Biblical books. If those things affected our salvation, it would be mentioned in the Bible. God does not make His children guess how to be saved. He tells them.

The TOG


Good post. :thumbsup
.
 
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