Animal Rights

[Zyrenah]

Animals feel, breath, need to eat and drink, sleep - just like anyone of us. Of course they have rights, it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

 

[jasoncran]

I often hear people say this about the law of nature.. join in for sure but leave the weapons at home. metallic weapons used in helpless creatures is not nature at all. it is artificial. our natural balance is wrong because of bulldozers and guns as it is.
People who had no idea at all what they were doing caused natural disasters and imbalances in nature with modern machinary and weapons.

It worries me that people who still have no idea and still have weapons are still out there doing it. ( not proffessional culling by the govt) I mean hunters, farmers, and sadistic idiots.

sometimes I envy other countries and religions that attempt to live in harmony with each other and nature. I envy the gentleness and regard for life.

ok.here the govt doesnt cull at all its the hunters that do that.meaning the hunters pay for a license and can only hunt during seasons. so we let mean starve with that food that is edible. hunters are far more compassionate then you think. i know of a story where a pig was in pain and the hunter was in a range to hit in the head and it moved and it was rather in pain. they could have let i die in horrible pain but they made sure it died quickly. they intended to eat that pig.

i'm sure here that without hunters using these park and ranges they would be closed.yrs ago in iowa persons like you stopped deer hunting. they overpopulated and the a town( i cant recall the name) main roads were blocked off by deers standing in the road and some people were injured in accidents. since then that has been a problem as hunting was allowed to continue.

 

[WIP]

Yes. Sorry to say. If I can, I let it outside but most of the time I can't so I let Grace eat them. Watching her hunt them is hilarious, she puts her paws on either side of them and sort of crawls along until she gets bored of this and eats them. Looks ridiculous!

You get down on those that have stated they enjoy hunting and yet you state here that you enjoy watching your "Grace" torture and kill certain creatures. Sounds contradictory to me.

I flush stink bugs because they're disgusting and EVERYWHERE. I don't think bugs are on the same scale as mammals or reptiles because they don't really even have individual personalities like they do.

You know this how? Isn't it possible that you just don't understand or recognize their personalities?

There are other posts here too about killing insects. Handy commented that she justifies killing flies and I think mosquitoes because they are so numerous. So then would it be safe to say that the buffalo slaughter of the 1800's was justified because there were millions of them too.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just pointing out some things that seem contradictory to me.

To me using the argument that they might carry disease is only a means to justify the killing in our own minds. Simply put, every creature on this earth has the potential to carry and spread disease including humans and all of us creatures do. How many communicable diseases and illnesses can you think of that we spread? I know people that fear entering a hospital or clinic because they might catch something. There are lots; common cold, various flu bugs, measles, smallpox, chickenpox, shingles, malaria, tuberculosis, polio, meningitis, and pneumonia are just a few that pop off the top of my head. When white men first started to come over to the new world (western hemisphere) one of our greatest threats to the native population wasn't necessarily our war machine. It was the diseases and viruses we brought with us and exposed them to. Their immune systems were not prepared to handle it and many died as a result.

I believe we all place a certain level of importance on specific species based on our own preconceived ideas. I remember one time when my wife and I got into this discussion, which is weird since she's a bit anti-hunting and married an avid hunter, and I asked her how a deer has more right to life than a mosquito, fly, or one of those asian beetles she abhors so much. Her reply was, "Deer are so cute." Of course I responded with something like, "I'm willing to bet that to a mosquito another mosquito is much cuter than a deer." My point is that she has this Bambi image about deer and as such she places their life above other creatures. She would have no problem with me hunting the cottontails around our farm because they destroy "her" garden. All of a sudden that little ball of fur is not so cute and is worthy of death.

I see this same scenario play out in just about every person I encounter that is anti-hunting. In their eyes some animals deserve life and others....not so much. Me? I like to think and hope I give all animals the same respect for life. I will not kill an animal except for food, to protect life (human or possibly another animal), protect property if other options fail, or to inflict euthanasia as in the cases of our pet horses, dogs, or cats. I personally don't "enjoy" taking the life but I might enjoy the process before and after as in the case of hunting. I enjoy hunting and I enjoy processing and/or consuming the meat, hide, and whatever else I can afterwards.

 

[Vic C.]

I agree with Handy's post. :yes I don't kill what I find in the house. I leave them to the cats. :D They take care of the moths, flying ants and the like.

Survival of the fittest, ya know?

But, being a gardener, there are some insects I need to deal with. For instance, I have to kill any tomato horn worms I find because they will devastate the plants by eating the leaves... and they do it at an alarming rate too. :shocked!

 

[handy]

I agree with Handy's post. :yes I don't kill what I find in the house. I leave them to the cats. :D They take care of the moths, flying ants and the like.

Watching my beloved Miranda catch moths was an amazing thing. When I was single and didn't have a hubby or kids, moths getting into the apartment presented a real problem for me living alone. Fly swatters are nowhere near long enough and mastering a broom when I wanted to crouch down and cover my hair was a test of strength that I didn't really have.

So, when I got Miranda and found out that to her, a moth presented a test to prove that the laws of physics are mere suggestions, it was great. Honestly, sometimes it was like watching "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". She never ate them...generally just the process of bringing it from the ceiling to the floor killed the thing and once it was dead, she lost interest.

The cats we have now are great mousers, and will go after moths and wasps if they happen to notice them, but none of them seem capable of the aerial acrobats that Miranda performed.

 

[Pebbles]

And I've already confessed my moth phobia...but still prefer that Steve or the kids carry them outside rather than kill them.

My mother and my sister have a similar phobia, (My mum is also frightened of spiders.) I never understood that one myself most of the larger moths don't even have mouths they can't bite or hurt anyone. I have abit of a squemishness about centipedes and craneflies myself.

within the scientific community we make reference to wheather a person belives in Animal welfare or Animal rights.

I'm very much on the side of welfare myself. Whitch is basically the position that you feel that animals should be spared from unnessecry suffering for whatever purpose they are raised for but there shouldn't be any exclusive limits on what those purposes can be.

Rights advocates belive in attributing inalienable rights to animals in much the same way they are attributed to humans. The right to not be killed ect.

 

[Drew]

The only rights that animals deserve is to not be tortured or killed excessively just for ''sport''. They were created with minimal intelligence for a reason. They're under us and available for survival at our disposal as long as it is within reasonable limits.

I suggest this is not the correct view.

In fact, this is precisely how creation is viewed through the eyes of fallen mankind here our intended role as healing stewards over creation is seen as the right to exploit for our own gain.

 

[Drew]

deleted own post.

 

[Drew]

Claiming animals have souls is an absurdity.

And why is this?

 

[Drew]

Yes, I LOVE animals.


They're tasty! :D

I politely suggest that many of you have deeply misunderstood the human vocation to be stewards of creation.

This may be news to some, but its not "all about us". God's instruction to Adam can, I suggest be characterized as this: "I am placing you, Adam, in charge of my beloved creation. It is all very good - eat as you have need, but never forget that I love it all, you are placed in charge of it as a steward - my creation is not here for you to exploit, but to nurture and care for.

 

[Drew]

Pard, there's no shame in having fun while hunting. I mean, I can't see the fun in sitting in a freezing cold duck blind, but antelope hunting is one of the more enjoyable activities I've ever experienced. Hunting is fun. Deal with it tree huggers.

Not quite. I suggest that enjoying the process of inflicting death is precisely the antithesis of responsibe stewardship over creation. Yes, it appears that we are "allowed" to eat meat. So, indeed, animals will need to be killed. But to enjoy the process of killing them is the worst possible distortion of our vocation as stewards. It involves twisting our job of responsible stewardship into the will to power.

Maybe you do not enjoy "the act of killing" - if so, my comments here do not apply to you.

 

[Drew]

God put us in charge of the animals. When you're in charge of a group of children, you're expected to be responsible. Well God expects us to be responsible in ruling over the animals. And that means that abusing them is sinful.

Right on. I also liked the rest of your post.

 

[jasoncran]

drew have you ever hunted? ever wait in nature and feel the breeze and see the prey? and then you take the shot and the rewards is fine meal? that is what he means by the sport.

here again is a misunderstanding of hunter vs prey. the hunters that i work with do respect the prey and are awed by the animals they kill. they will talk about it somedays and show the size of the kill and bring it in to share.

they do there best death is quick and merciful. shooting an animal is the easiest way to cull herds in their natural habitat. Do deer need be farmed too? think about that with any animal humans do eat.

gators.
fish
deer
turkey
duck
geese.

would you rather them be farmed raised and have hormones? so either it would have to be a small scale operation and the large natural herds that are and should be wild will have to be culled and not eaten. catching an animal is rather doable but which is financial sound. a govt agent culling deers with a tranquiliser first then using the heart stoppers on the beast. then selling it to the market.

hmm or as a father son or daughter or wife going on a range or park or military base with a license to hunt and doing it yourself?

yes the govt could do that but that would mean in all 50 in the u.s. would have a culture change. Hunters, contrary to tradition arent animal haters and cruel. peta proganda once again. cow worship influencing christianity once again.yes we should be humane to them but we have enchroached their lands by growth and land use. so cull humans is either what you suggest then or the edilble animals and even those that arent.and I know dont and aren suggest that. so we by breeding have a need to control animal populations that were once in the wild and still are that need to be in the wild land they had or if restored should have again.

FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE NEVER HUNTED BY I WAS TRAINED BY HUNTERS IN THE ARMY TO SHOOT BETTER AND I UNDERSTAND THEIR MINDS AS I LOVED NATURE AND WOULD APRECIATE BUCKS AND TURKEYS ON MILITARY BASES.

and i never will hunt. dont have the time at present.

 

[Chris]

I politely suggest that many of you have deeply misunderstood the human vocation to be stewards of creation.

This may be news to some, but its not "all about us". God's instruction to Adam can, I suggest be characterized as this: "I am placing you, Adam, in charge of my beloved creation. It is all very good - eat as you have need, but never forget that I love it all, you are placed in charge of it as a steward - my creation is not here for you to exploit, but to nurture and care for.

A picture came to my mind as I read your post about responsible living.

I pictured a fat man in a restaurant complaining because the steak he just ordered was cooked slightly not to his liking, so He requested another at no additional cost to him and in doing so requested another death. Killing in the name of greed.
I sometimes think of this too when I go to all you can eat restaurants. I see wasted lives everywhere by some people attempting to get value for money and wasting lots of it. Eating excessively beyond what is needed for living, whats left on the plate is thrown out..

 

[handy]

A picture came to my mind as I read your post about responsible living.

I pictured a fat man in a restaurant complaining because the steak he just ordered was cooked slightly not to his liking, so He requested another at no additional cost to him and in doing so requested another death. Killing in the name of greed.

I sometimes think of this too when I go to all you can eat restaurants. I see wasted lives everywhere by people attempting to get value for money and wasting most of it. Eating beyone what is needed for living. whats left on the plate is thrown out..

What you are describing is gluttony, and gluttony is a sin.

I wish that more pastors would preach on gluttony...why it is a sin. But, sadly, even though gluttony is rampant in the Church...no one really wants to bring it up.

 

[jasoncran]

no,they dont but you arent alone. there are some that do.

 

[God&DogGirl]

Actually I've never heard a sermon on gluttony... weird. I didn't think of that before.

 

[reba]

What no pot lucks? handy how unbaptist of you!

 

[Chris]

YOU guys must think I am the fun police with some of the things I say here but its just I feel for things that suffer in any way. Its a curse to me in a lot of ways.

A very young chicken of ours we just bought got mauled by a dog recently. I rescued it and put it in the laundry in a cage to get better for a few days. Every time I walked near it in the first 2 days I could feel its distress in me . It is dollar chicken but it is a life and I could sense the pain it felt. I realy hate the way that happens but it does.

Its ok now and beginning in its young life to produce eggs for us.

They are our pets and run around free most of the time in our yard.

 

[jasoncran]

YOU guys must think I am the fun police with some of the things I say here but its just I feel for things that suffer in any way. Its a curse to me in a lot of ways.

A very young chicken of ours we just bought got mauled by a dog recently. I rescued it and put it in the laundry in a cage to get better for a few days. Every time I walked near it in the first 2 days I could feel its distress in me . It is dollar chicken but it is a life and I could sense the pain it felt. I realy hate the way that happens but it does.
Its ok now and beginning in its young life to produce eggs for us.

They are our pets and run around free most of the time in our yard.

welcome to empathy. i have that far more then you do. i feel it with plants and did it when i had to cut a banana tree down.i have seens the auras of trees and the cry of the earth.