Animal Rights

[pjt]

What's your view? Do animals deserve rights? Do people who abuse them deserve to be arrested and sometimes be sent to jail? Should we all be vegetarians or should we find more humane and painless ways of killing animals for meat?

This is one of my favorite topics so please discuss.

God says we should treat animals well so I think they have rights from a moral sense of the word, but legal rights, no. I hate the idea of animal police. I think that goes over the line and the Bible gives no indication of policing animal rights as it does human rights so I`m opposed to throw people in jail in regards to animals, but I`m deeply disgusted with any human that would harm an animal and if they abuse an animal I do think the animal should be taken away from them and given to a caring owner.

No, I don`t think we should be vegetarians because God even instructed people to eat meat. But I don`t support inhumane methods of keeping animals and killing them. Killing an animal to eat should be as quick and painless as possible and animals should be kept in decent housing conditions.

 

[God&DogGirl]

I disagree there. Abusing animals is a horrific crime against a living, breathing creature that God created. There are animal doctors, animal groomers, heck, even animal psychics, why is it so wrong that there's animal police? Cruelty to animals is a crime punishable by jail time and, if someone is cruel to an animal just to laugh as it shrieks in pain, the jail sentence and fines should be longer than it is. I heard of one case in which a group of teenage boys poured gasoline on a puppy and set him on fire. The puppy survived!! Thousands of dollars in vet bills and lots of prayer led to the puppy to a caring, loving owner and as far as I know, the people who did it are still in prison. And rightly so! It's disgusting to treat a living creature like that! So yes, animal cruelty should most definitely be a crime because people who do that need help!

 

[Hitch]

YOU guys must think I am the fun police with some of the things I say here but its just I feel for things that suffer in any way. Its a curse to me in a lot of ways.

A very young chicken of ours we just bought got mauled by a dog recently. I rescued it and put it in the laundry in a cage to get better for a few days. Every time I walked near it in the first 2 days I could feel its distress in me . It is dollar chicken but it is a life and I could sense the pain it felt. I realy hate the way that happens but it does.

Its ok now and beginning in its young life to produce eggs for us.

They are our pets and run around free most of the time in our yard.

You mean you stole an egg from an injured enslaved bird.

Get some iodine!

 

[Hitch]

Not quite. I suggest that enjoying the process of inflicting death is precisely the antithesis of responsibe stewardship over creation. Yes, it appears that we are "allowed" to eat meat. So, indeed, animals will need to be killed. But to enjoy the process of killing them is the worst possible distortion of our vocation as stewards. It involves twisting our job of responsible stewardship into the will to power.

Maybe you do not enjoy "the act of killing" - if so, my comments here do not apply to you.

Look lets just announce that Drew is the President of Earth and let him rule by decree,,, then sin and death will be but fading memories.

 

[Chris]

You mean you stole an egg from an injured enslaved bird.

Get some iodine!

it is my pet that i care for!

what are you eating tonight for dinner..be honest!

 

[Hitch]

it is my pet that i care for!

what are you eating tonight for dinner..be honest!

Animal companion, you meant to say....

 

[WIP]

A picture came to my mind as I read your post about responsible living.

I pictured a fat man in a restaurant complaining because the steak he just ordered was cooked slightly not to his liking, so He requested another at no additional cost to him and in doing so requested another death. Killing in the name of greed.
I sometimes think of this too when I go to all you can eat restaurants. I see wasted lives everywhere by some people attempting to get value for money and wasting lots of it. Eating excessively beyond what is needed for living, whats left on the plate is thrown out..

Not at you, Chris, but anyone that has never done this consider visiting the trash can of your favorite restaurant sometime and take a look at the tons, and I mean that literally, of food that is discarded. How many of us will visit a buffet and not eat everything we put on our plates? We can't take it home because buffets don't allow "doggie bags" for a reason.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I live in the South, so I kind of understand that hunting is a sport (I don't get it completely, but whatever). That said, I think animals are important to the environment, so they deserve protection from torture and excessive slaughter, when such slaughter would pose a risk to the environment. So, I'm all for The Endangered Species Act and other such legislation that aims not so much to protect the animals per se as to protect the environment from further damage.

I'm all for reasonable animal testing, though. I mean, we need effective drugs, and if we have to inject some chimps with experimental chemicals to get a cure for cancer, I say go for it. I'm not so big on animal testing for cosmetics, though--it seems like companies should (and I think some do) find other ways to make sure their products are safe and effective.

 

[Mike]

I'm all for reasonable animal testing, though. I mean, we need effective drugs, and if we have to inject some chimps with experimental chemicals to get a cure for cancer, I say go for it. I'm not so big on animal testing for cosmetics, though--it seems like companies should (and I think some do) find other ways to make sure their products are safe and effective.

I agree completely. In an honest pursuit for medical discoveries that will lead to disease cures, I feel it is necessary. Eventually, they get to third-phase trials where they use humans too. To test cosmetics with animals seems like horribly selfish vanity. How reckless is that?

To other posts I've read regarding insects, I know people here don't avoid killing them for the reasons Hindus do, but it almost seems like their way of thinking. Call me in-compassionate, but I don't have ANY problem killing insects. Someone can suggest I'm looking at this in a superficial way, but animals to me are different. I can't think of a time that I abused an animal. That would be hard to do and not have guilt. Maybe it's because I have to look into their eyes, but I don't with insects, but I just feel nothing for them.

 

[Drew]

drew have you ever hunted? ever wait in nature and feel the breeze and see the prey? and then you take the shot and the rewards is fine meal? that is what he means by the sport.

No I have not hunted. I have no objection to enjoying being in the out of doors, feeling, the breeze, being with friends - all of that stuff.

And I accept the notion that is not sinful for us to kill animals to eat them - although I have some doubts about this.

What I specifically think is wrong is to take pleasure from the act of killing.

And I have tried to be careful to not suggest that any particular poster takes pleasure in killing. However, I will say that I suspect some hunters do.

 

[Drew]

A picture came to my mind as I read your post about responsible living.

I pictured a fat man in a restaurant complaining because the steak he just ordered was cooked slightly not to his liking, so He requested another at no additional cost to him and in doing so requested another death. Killing in the name of greed.
I sometimes think of this too when I go to all you can eat restaurants. I see wasted lives everywhere by some people attempting to get value for money and wasting lots of it. Eating excessively beyond what is needed for living, whats left on the plate is thrown out..

I entirely agree with the sentiment you are expressing here.

 

[jasoncran]

No I have not hunted. I have no objection to enjoying being in the out of doors, feeling, the breeze, being with friends - all of that stuff.

And I accept the notion that is not sinful for us to kill animals to eat them - although I have some doubts about this.

What I specifically think is wrong is to take pleasure from the act of killing.

And I have tried to be careful to not suggest that any particular poster takes pleasure in killing. However, I will say that I suspect some hunters do.

i dont hear hunters say they enjoy watching an animal die.i do hear them talk about the fun they had finding the prey and then talking it out. the wait etc. and the reward.

 

[handy]

And I accept the notion that is not sinful for us to kill animals to eat them - although I have some doubts about this.

I posted a new thread dedicated to discussing whether or not eating animals can indeed be sin...or at the very least not God's perfect plan.

http://www.christianforums.net/f15/animals-food-35856/#post538856

 

[Riverwolf]

i dont hear hunters say they enjoy watching an animal die.i do hear them talk about the fun they had finding the prey and then talking it out. the wait etc. and the reward.

Jason, you nailed this at least for me.

 

[pjt]

i dont hear hunters say they enjoy watching an animal die.i do hear them talk about the fun they had finding the prey and then talking it out. the wait etc. and the reward.

I`m not a hunter so I can`t relate to hunter`s feelings but I know a lot of hunters and I`ve never heard any of them say they enjoyed killing. Actually my father and grandfather used to hunt a lot when my father was young. My father has a tender heart so he never enjoyed the killing, but he did it because he hunted for food. And a lot of people from my hometown still hunt for food so I think some hunt for sport and some hunt for necessity. I think if ever a person got to a point where they enjoyed the killing aspect of hunting then that is when they should stop. I imagine that could apply to anything that has an ugly side to it like any police that started enjoying arresting people then that`s when they should stop being a police or a solidier that got to where he liked killing people, then he should stop, but we hope those who enjoy the gore are a very rare and exceptional case.

Mike mentioned insects, I have no problem killing a mosquito, fly, spider, roach or any scary looking bug that comes in my house, but I do not go out of my way to kill them. If they leave me alone and stay out of my house, I leave them alone. Any other insects that might find their way in my house like a ladybug, I would probably catch it and throw it out. However, even with insects I have compassion. I do not enjoy killing them and if I did kill one it would be as swift and pain free as possible. I would not torture an insect nor would I torture a reptile, fish, or any other living thing. I think I would be too scared to kill a snake but if I screamed and someone else killed it for me, I would see that person as my hero so I have no problems with snakes or any scary creature being killed if it comes around humans.

I also have no problem with animals being killed if they are destroying human property or crops and no deterrants can keep them away. I also have no problem with creatures being killed that are threats to humans like alligators, wild boars, etc. I am against the Wolf projects that criminalize humans who protect their family, livestock, and property from wolves. I can`t imagine trying to run a ranch and raise children around wolves and being told if I kill one for coming on my property I will be put in prison. That is crazy to me.

 

[WIP]

I am a hunter and I think I speak for most when I say that any ethical hunter would always use care and strive for a clean, high percentage shots that affords a fast kill. First, we don't like to see the animal suffer. Second, we don't like to have to track the animal. Third, we hate the thought of wounding an animal. A wounded animal suffers before it dies. Wounding an animal can taint the meat rendering it unsafe or ruin its flavor. In some cases a wounded animal isn't found and either dies later from its wounds or worse a long time later from infection and then may never be found. The only bright spot, if you can call it that, is that it does become food for other animals.

I personally have never had to track an animal I've shot for more than about 40 yards through the woods. Most of them drop dead in their tracks. I have chosen not to take shots because I didn't feel confident to make a quick clean kill and that's how I believe it should be.

 

[Vic C.]

I agree completely. In an honest pursuit for medical discoveries that will lead to disease cures, I feel it is necessary. Eventually, they get to third-phase trials where they use humans too. To test cosmetics with animals seems like horribly selfish vanity. How reckless is that?

To other posts I've read regarding insects, I know people here don't avoid killing them for the reasons Hindus do, but it almost seems like their way of thinking. Call me in-compassionate, but I don't have ANY problem killing insects. Someone can suggest I'm looking at this in a superficial way, but animals to me are different. I can't think of a time that I abused an animal. That would be hard to do and not have guilt. Maybe it's because I have to look into their eyes, but I don't with insects, but I just feel nothing for them.

Mike, I don't refrain from killing them for some humane reason. Yes, there is some humanity in my reasoning, but the main reason is... they just don't bother me. They beat us in population by a 1,000,000 fold so one dead insect isn't going to make a difference.

Now, with that said, if I encounter an insect in my house that can hurt a human or one of my pets (yes, I said PETS :p) consider it sent to "insect heaven".

 

[Pard]

I am a hunter and I think I speak for most when I say that any ethical hunter would always use care and strive for a clean, high percentage shots that affords a fast kill. First, we don't like to see the animal suffer. Second, we don't like to have to track the animal. Third, we hate the thought of wounding an animal. A wounded animal suffers before it dies. Wounding an animal can taint the meat rendering it unsafe or ruin its flavor.

But the most important reason for being accurate and not wounding the animal is because if you can't take it down in one shot than you suck and no ones wants to suck.

 

[GojuBrian]

What's your view? Do animals deserve rights? Do people who abuse them deserve to be arrested and sometimes be sent to jail? Should we all be vegetarians or should we find more humane and painless ways of killing animals for meat?

This is one of my favorite topics so please discuss.

I love and care for my pets. If I catch anyone abusing an animal I will abuse that person. They need to feel the abuse.

Cows have the right to taste delicious with a side of baked potato. Cows have the right to A1 sauce.
Chickens have the right to be made into many tasty dishes with spices.

 

[GojuBrian]

I am a hunter and I think I speak for most when I say that any ethical hunter would always use care and strive for a clean, high percentage shots that affords a fast kill. First, we don't like to see the animal suffer. Second, we don't like to have to track the animal. Third, we hate the thought of wounding an animal. A wounded animal suffers before it dies. Wounding an animal can taint the meat rendering it unsafe or ruin its flavor. In some cases a wounded animal isn't found and either dies later from its wounds or worse a long time later from infection and then may never be found. The only bright spot, if you can call it that, is that it does become food for other animals.

I personally have never had to track an animal I've shot for more than about 40 yards through the woods. Most of them drop dead in their tracks. I have chosen not to take shots because I didn't feel confident to make a quick clean kill and that's how I believe it should be.

One shot one kill.