Are all people infected by sin?

[Jim Parker]

Agreed.. i don't think the Ortholdox church believes as Protestants do..

You are correct.
The Orthodox Church believes as the original Church did.

 

[turnorburn]

You are correct.
The Orthodox Church believes as the original Church did.

The original church gave us witnesses as to what it was like..

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm

 

[Jim Parker]

The original church gave us witnesses as to what it was like..
http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm

"It"?? What do you mean by "what it was like."?
Please clarify.

 

[jasonc]

Deu 30:19 “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Jos 24:15 “And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

Isreal put to death ,witches, baal worshipers. Etc

That's not freedom to serve .there's no I'm free to serve the devil with God,he allows you to choose death ,buy will judge yoi for that

 

[jasonc]

if there was no freedom of religion in the bible then Jesus, the diciples, and Paul would have all been on a convert or face penalty missions.

I don't see anywhere Paul forcing people to follow christianity. It actually went the other way, he was persecuted.

I'm not suggesting compelled worship ,but with God ,he said what about the lost?

 

[Corn Pop]

I'm not suggesting compelled worship ,but with God ,he said what about the lost?

If God is Authority and creator over all things then man, or any created being, has no right to play God and take his judgement and justice in there own hands, as in compulsary convert or face a penalty, as Jesus said whoever is without wrong cast the first stone. Only God is Just. I don't think God is weak that he needs man to help do his own work.

How can a Almighty creator of all created things be so weak it takes mans help to help him?. Thats weak.

 

[Jim Parker]

Isreal put to death ,witches, baal worshipers. Etc That's not freedom to serve

God gave them the choice to serve Him or other gods.

Deu 30:15-20
See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.

The imposition of the death penalty for Baal worship or the practice of witchcraft was part of the agreement between Israel and God. It was a specification of the treaty between Israel and God which the Israelites freely agreed to keep. It was what Israel agreed to do.

The violation of the Covenant (treaty with God) was never a personal issue. Sin, in ancient Israel, was behavior which put the entire nation in peril of catastrophe. (See Duet 28) The same is true today in every nation though most people don't want to hear about "sin" and don't admit to the direct relationship between the sin of the individual and the destruction of the nation. They don't want anything to interrupt all the fun they're having at the party.

Even up until today, God allows everyone to worship any god or any thing they like.
Worship of the One True God leads to eternal life.
Worship of any and every thing else leads to eternal death.
Choose whatever path you like.
You are free to do so.
But the results do not change and we don't execute Baal worshipers today because the USa is not a theocracy.
But ancient Israel was.

The term "freedom of religion" is a modern American idea born out of the history of the bloody religious wars of England in the recent past before the American revolution. Not wanting to repeat the slaughter over being an Anglican or a Catholic or a Puritan, our founder put it in the Constitution, But it wasn't about Baal worship or witchcraft. It was about what flavor of Christianity you chose.

But God has always permitted man to worship anything he felt like worshiping. His revelation is about the results of our choices so that we may choose responsibly.

Unfortunately, today, world wide, we have lost the sense of urgency contained in the instruction: "You must purge the evil from among you." (DT 13:5; 17:7, 12; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21, 22, 24; 24:7)

Instead, today, we seem quite happy to tolerate almost any kind of self-destructive behavior (sin). American society today bears a remarkable resemblance to the late stages of Wiemar Republic in which self-indulgence, sexual depravity, drug abuse, and general moral decay were the defining characteristics.

iakov the fool

 

[jasonc]

God gave them the choice to serve Him or other gods.

Deu 30:15-20
See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.

The imposition of the death penalty for Baal worship or the practice of witchcraft was part of the agreement between Israel and God. It was a specification of the treaty between Israel and God which the Israelites freely agreed to keep.

And the violation of the Covenant (treaty with God) was never a personal issue. Sin, in ancient Israel, was behavior which put the entire nation in peril of catastrophe. (See Duet 28)

Even up until today, God allows everyone to worship any god or any thing they like.
Worship of the One True God leads to eternal life.
Worship of any and every thing else leads to eternal death.
Choose whatever path you like.
You are free to do so.
But the results do not change and we don't execute Baal worshipers today because the USa is not a theocracy.
But ancient Israel was.

The term "freedom of religion" is a modern American idea born out of the history of the bloody religious wars of England in the recent past before the American revolution. Not wanting to repeat the slaughter over being an Anglican or a Catholic or a Puritan, our founder put it in the Constitution, But it wasn't about Baal worship or witchcraft. It was about what flavor of Christianity you chose.

But God has always permitted man to worship anything he felt like worshiping. His revelation is about the results of our choices so that we may choose responsibly.

Unfortunately, today, world wide, we have lost the sense of urgency contained in the instruction: "You must purge the evil from among you." (DT 13:5; 17:7, 12; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21, 22, 24; 24:7)

Instead, we seem quite happy to tolerate almost any kind of self-destructive behavior (sin).


iakov the fool

The key word purge,

Ok,we put to death gays in the past, witches,and we'll before isreal the consequences of circumcision being ignored was death.moses was almost slayed before that.

God judged, commanded isreal to slay the amekelites,over their sins listed as others did it too ,listed in lev 18.

 

[Jim Parker]

God judged, commanded isreal to slay the amekelites

There are two times in the OT when God wiped out entire peoples to put an end to sin before it infected everyone; the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. God commanded Israel to utterly destroy the inhabitants of Canaan because of their disgusting and hideous practices including child sacrifice. He commanded that annihilation so that Israel would not be enticed to copy their practices and, by doing so, bring destruction and eternal death upon themselves.

The modern concept of "freedom of religion" is not applicable to ancient Israel.

 

[jasonc]

Where is right to sin in the kingdom? Should I ask what sin I can be allowed to do? Once you answer this,freedom to sin ,isn't even a question.thr notion of "freedom " isn't in the bible.

Free only to serve God, the bible is ,and wasn't meant to adress national laws.it does mention good codes but it adresses mans relationship with God,a place a govt has no place.

Therefore since gay marraiage,polygamy, adultery, divorce, fornication,sobriety falls in thar category,these shouldMt be regulated like other things.

That's my point along with how ineffective govt is at legislation of morality.

Im not for drug abuse,I dnot condone it.

 

[Corn Pop]

If there is no freedom of religion then people do not have a choice to repent and accept Jesus as Lord

 

[turnorburn]

If there is no freedom of religion then people do not have a choice to repent and accept Jesus as Lord

John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[WIP]

Let's not confuse religion with belief or faith.

 

[Jim Parker]

That's my point along with how ineffective govt is at legislation of morality.

It is beyond the ability of government to enforce morality.
They can punish crime but the members of government repeatedly demonstrate an inability to determine what is moral and what is immoral.

 

[Jim Parker]

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him

Jhn 12:32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

 

[Jim Parker]

Let's not confuse religion with belief or faith.

OK
To be understood, it would be very useful to state what you mean by the words; "religion", "belief" and "faith."

I find the word "religion" used in a positive sense in the NT by James.
Jas 1:26-27 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

 

[turnorburn]

"It"?? What do you mean by "what it was like."?
Please clarify.

What is was like for those that loved the Lord..

 

[OzSpen]

That is the teaching of Scripture and the teaching of the very early church.

There is no scriptural basis for that opinion.

I gave you the biblical basis, providing evidence.

You continue with your opinions.

 

[OzSpen]

You are correct.
The Orthodox Church believes as the original Church did.

I've provided biblical evidence on regeneration that contradicts the Orthodox Church teaching on baptismal regeneration.

I'm not going to repeat it.

 

[WIP]

Things are getting a little more personal. Let's watch that please.