Are All who call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus saved? What can disqualify a "caller"?

[for_his_glory]

Well if jesus is the same then he can’t lie. So when he said….
he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. This is how one is forgiven. If not Jesus is a liar. Where did he say…
all you have to do is repent and pray for forgiveness. I don’t find that in the great commission

According to Jesus it saves ALL who…..
believe the gospel and is baptized. Mk 16:16 Salvation, according to the words of Jesus comes AFTER baptism and not before.

No You just made that up. Even within the context of the beginning of John the topic is water baptism. John the Baptist and Jesus were preaching and practicing water baptism but the Pharisees wouldn’t do it. Lk 7:30. So this is why Jesus said what he said to Nicodemus who was a Pharisee. a few verses later we find this…
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:22
So why is Jesus baptizing in water if he just told this guy he needed to be baptized with the Spirit?

I don t see where “water” = word. The “word” in your text is Christ. The other three are Spirit, water and blood and you need all three to be saved. The Spirit provides the message of salvation that includes water. You are then obedient to that and its the blood that ultimately washes your sins away. Rev 1:5. Acts 22:16.

I thought you needed to repent too. Isn’t that what you said above? Now you just have to believe. Which is it? And what passages do appeal to for that?

i would agree. How does it do it? It provides us the information and instruction God has given us on HOW to be saved and live the Christian life.

It can be clean river, pond water if you wish.

Where’s the passage you appeal to that says what you just said? Or did you just regurgitate what some preacher told you.

Let’s look at Eph 5:26.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27
It is the word that tells us how to be cleansed, sanctified, spot free, without blemish. The word tells us that this happens in water baptism. We are told that through water baptism we are….saved mk 16:16, sins remitted ac 2:38, sins washed away ac 22:16, Saved 1 pet 3:21, provided a new life. Rom 6:3-5.
Were the Ephesians preached too? Yes. Were the baptized in water? Yes. Twice. Because they got it wrong the First time.


Acts 2:38? You think that is HS baptism? Jesus a couple of days before this just got through commanding that they go teach all nations and baptize people. People cant baptize with the spirit. Only God can do that. What you are preaching is TWO Baptisms. Paul says in Eph 4 there is only one. The one God commanded for all time. Water.

You don’t know what was available at Jerusalem. That is made up. Were you there? You are one of only a few people that wont admit that acts 2:38 is water. you are way out on the fringe now. God commanded water baptism and that’s what they taught and practiced. I’ll prove it….
Here is the same preacher as acts 2
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:46-48
Here’s Peter, your man in acts 2, COMMANDING water baptism. Now who would believe that Peter commanded spirit baptism to one audience and water to another. This is the kind of nasty false doctrine I seek to destroy.

Lets let the Bible define this. In acts 1 this very phrase is repeated and the promise goes to the apostles and apostles only.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:5
Then what happened to the apostles a few days later? They were baptized with the Spirit and we know that happened because they could perform the miraculous. The baptism of the Spirit ALWAYS is accompanied with the miraculous. Why dont it happen today? because we DO NOT receive the baptism of the Spirit today.

I already explained all of this with scripture. I'm not going to go round and round with you on this. Ya, I do know what was available in Jerusalem as it's not that hard to look up.

 

[for_his_glory]

No. That is the opposite of what I said. Jesus answered there first question first. The first 34 verses deal with him answering about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Then he deals with his second coming.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:36-37
At the beginning he’s saying you can see signs. Signs of what? Of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Then he changes to….you wont know when the coming of Christ will be. See. One you can see coming the other you cant. And all of that has been proven true. People, for years, have tried to tell us when Christ is coming back and every time they look stupid. Dont get caught up in the newspaper headline prophecies or you too will look stupid.

It was you that said in your post #87 "So he started in reverse." If I misunderstood what you meant by that then can you explain what you mean by he started in reverse.

The first question Jesus answered was about the temple being destroyed. The verse that specifically deals with the destruction of the temple is in Matthew 24:2 as the disciples would see that in their lifetime. From there on Jesus gives them the signs of the end of the age they asked for.

Here is the order that is written in Matthew 24:3
1.Tell us, when shall these things be
2. what shall be the sign of thy coming
3 and of the end of the world

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

If we say this generation refers to those alive at Jesus first coming, then the destruction of Jerusalem would have to also be His second coming and we can clearly see He has not returned yet.

People are fools to give certain dates for Christ second coming, but he has also given us the signs to watch for, especially in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[for_his_glory]

hahaha! Ok. So Jesus says….
He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
Clearly salvation comes after baptism. This is also supported in acts 2:38.
This is reading comp 101. And you want to tell me that Jesus lied and didnt know what he was talking about.
Good luck with that!

Lev 16:23 And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
Lev 16:24 And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.

The Mikveh (meaning a collection of water) in the OT was a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion. Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. In Priestly law, the ultimate purpose of ritual purification was to protect God's sanctuary, the tabernacle, from contamination, Leviticus chapter 15.

The Mikveh, being a shadow of John's baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, (IE. Baptism of Christ) was for purification, not for remission of sin, like that of what Esaias prophesied saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight, Isaiah 40:3. In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins, Matthew 3:1-6. John said, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, Matthew 3:11.


Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. John's water baptism was only for repentance as being prepared for the coming of the Lord as the water represented the washing away of sin, or as John put it "prepare ye the way of the Lord". It is not clear in scripture that Jesus ever baptized anyone in water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin. This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day as God gave Him full power and authority here on earth and there after Jesus went about teaching the disciples as it was not Jesus who the Pharisees heard that He baptized more than John did, John 4:1-3 but His disciples baptizing others in water for remission of sin after the death of John the Baptist as all together they would have baptized others in water for the remission of sin then John could at one time. Jesus could not baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost after He ascended up to the Father and the Father sent down the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water, word of God, that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the hearing of the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. God's word is living water as described in John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

 

[Hopeful]

sigh*** one last time your saved the moment you call on jesus justified declared righteous not guilty just as if we never sinned. justified by faith by grace and the Blood... NOT water baptism

I was converted, repented, and was baptized calling on the name of the Lord for the remission of my past sins.
That application of the blood of Christ provided me with justification and sanctification.
My salvation is now in the hands of God who will make the final ruling on my faithfulness.

 

[Hopeful]

Well if jesus is the same then he can’t lie. So when he said….
he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. This is how one is forgiven. If not Jesus is a liar. Where did he say…
all you have to do is repent and pray for forgiveness. I don’t find that in the great commission

According to Jesus it saves ALL who…..
believe the gospel and is baptized. Mk 16:16 Salvation, according to the words of Jesus comes AFTER baptism and not before.

No You just made that up. Even within the context of the beginning of John the topic is water baptism. John the Baptist and Jesus were preaching and practicing water baptism but the Pharisees wouldn’t do it. Lk 7:30. So this is why Jesus said what he said to Nicodemus who was a Pharisee. a few verses later we find this…
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:22
So why is Jesus baptizing in water if he just told this guy he needed to be baptized with the Spirit?

I don t see where “water” = word. The “word” in your text is Christ. The other three are Spirit, water and blood and you need all three to be saved. The Spirit provides the message of salvation that includes water. You are then obedient to that and its the blood that ultimately washes your sins away. Rev 1:5. Acts 22:16.

I thought you needed to repent too. Isn’t that what you said above? Now you just have to believe. Which is it? And what passages do appeal to for that?

i would agree. How does it do it? It provides us the information and instruction God has given us on HOW to be saved and live the Christian life.

It can be clean river, pond water if you wish.

Where’s the passage you appeal to that says what you just said? Or did you just regurgitate what some preacher told you.

Let’s look at Eph 5:26.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27
It is the word that tells us how to be cleansed, sanctified, spot free, without blemish. The word tells us that this happens in water baptism. We are told that through water baptism we are….saved mk 16:16, sins remitted ac 2:38, sins washed away ac 22:16, Saved 1 pet 3:21, provided a new life. Rom 6:3-5.
Were the Ephesians preached too? Yes. Were the baptized in water? Yes. Twice. Because they got it wrong the First time.


Acts 2:38? You think that is HS baptism? Jesus a couple of days before this just got through commanding that they go teach all nations and baptize people. People cant baptize with the spirit. Only God can do that. What you are preaching is TWO Baptisms. Paul says in Eph 4 there is only one. The one God commanded for all time. Water.

You don’t know what was available at Jerusalem. That is made up. Were you there? You are one of only a few people that wont admit that acts 2:38 is water. you are way out on the fringe now. God commanded water baptism and that’s what they taught and practiced. I’ll prove it….
Here is the same preacher as acts 2
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:46-48
Here’s Peter, your man in acts 2, COMMANDING water baptism. Now who would believe that Peter commanded spirit baptism to one audience and water to another. This is the kind of nasty false doctrine I seek to destroy.

Lets let the Bible define this. In acts 1 this very phrase is repeated and the promise goes to the apostles and apostles only.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:5
Then what happened to the apostles a few days later? They were baptized with the Spirit and we know that happened because they could perform the miraculous. The baptism of the Spirit ALWAYS is accompanied with the miraculous. Why dont it happen today? because we DO NOT receive the baptism of the Spirit today.

I agree with everything you posted...except the last sentence.
It does happen today.

 

[Cnkw3]

I already explained all of this with scripture. I'm not going to go round and round with you on this. Ya, I do know what was available in Jerusalem as it's not that hard to look up.

No you didnt. You are telling everyone that acts 2:38 is peter commanding “spirit” baptism. You didnt expalin anything. Im the one that proved your teaching on this matter is false. That is not what Peter was commanding on Pentecost and you are one of the fringe that thinks so.
Who was there in AD 30 that wrote about Jerusalems water situation? It is a fact that there were pools in Jerusalem. Have you ever heard of the pool of Siloam?

 

[Cnkw3]

Yes, I do understand "It's the people ", I have for a long time now. Please answer my question if you can .



I think you will like the link; they talk more about water than the altar.

We were not given a floor plan on how to build a building to worship in.

 

[Hopeful]

No you didnt. You are telling everyone that acts 2:38 is peter commanding “spirit” baptism. You didnt expalin anything. Im the one that proved your teaching on this matter is false. That is not what Peter was commanding on Pentecost and you are one of the fringe that thinks so.
Who was there in AD 30 that wrote about Jerusalems water situation? It is a fact that there were pools in Jerusalem. Have you ever heard of the pool of Siloam?

As the gift of the Holy Ghost is from God, the idea of commanding a man to give it is ludicrous.
I am glad you are staying on the right track.

 

[Cnkw3]

I agree with everything you posted...except the last sentence.
It does happen today.

Then why have i been around the church for 40 years and have NEVER seen it. Are you saying that NOBODY I have been around has ever been good enough to have miraculous ability? Why don’t some of these people go clear out a hospital?
Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it.
Acts 4:16 -
Ive never seen a “miracle” that was “undeniable”. The ones you see on TV are completely deniable.
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Acts 5:15-16
This does not happen today.

 

[Cnkw3]

It was you that said in your post #87 "So he started in reverse." If I misunderstood what you meant by that then can you explain what you mean by he started in reverse.

I was asking you a question. there was a question mark. You had said…verses 4-31 was Jesus saying what must happen before his second coming.

The first question Jesus answered was about the temple being destroyed. The verse that specifically deals with the destruction of the temple is in Matthew 24:2 as the disciples would see that in their lifetime. From there on Jesus gives them the signs of the end of the age they asked for.

Verse 2? Thats it? The question about the temple comes in verse 3. You have Jesus answering a question that has not even been asked yet. And you have him answering it all in one verse? Really?

Here is the order that is written in Matthew 24:3
1.Tell us, when shall these things be

This the the question about the temple. He had just said that there would not be one stone left. He specifically said….”see all these things” (speaking of the temple) and then they said…when shall these things be?

2. what shall be the sign of thy coming
3 and of the end of the world

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

Amen. Verse 4-34 is about the destruction of jerusalem. Jesus answered their question. This is why no Christian’s died during this siege. They new what to look for.

If we say this generation refers to those alive at Jesus first coming, then the destruction of Jerusalem would have to also be His second coming and we can clearly see He has not returned yet.

People are fools to give certain dates for Christ second coming, but he has also given us the signs to watch for, especially in Matthew 24:29-31.

No it wouldnt. He clearly changes the narrative at verse 36.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:26,36-39
Up above there were clear signs to see. Here there are no signs. it will just happen. There were clear signs that jerusalem was about to be destroyed There are no signs for the coming of Christ. That is why we are to be ready everyday.

 

[for_his_glory]

No you didnt. You are telling everyone that acts 2:38 is peter commanding “spirit” baptism. You didnt expalin anything. Im the one that proved your teaching on this matter is false. That is not what Peter was commanding on Pentecost and you are one of the fringe that thinks so.
Who was there in AD 30 that wrote about Jerusalems water situation? It is a fact that there were pools in Jerusalem. Have you ever heard of the pool of Siloam?

Did you even read my post #103 or taken the time to study those scriptures I gave. Have you ever read the history of Jerusalem and the water situation within the city or seen pics of archeology findings? Go look it up for yourself as I already talked about the pools in Jerusalem, but yet no way could 3000 be baptized in one day after hearing Peter's first sermon, especially being immersed in sacred pools. The Jordon was the only close river to Jerusalem and took a full day to walk there.

 

[Cnkw3]

Lev 16:23 And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
Lev 16:24 And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.

The Mikveh (meaning a collection of water) in the OT was a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion. Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. In Priestly law, the ultimate purpose of ritual purification was to protect God's sanctuary, the tabernacle, from contamination, Leviticus chapter 15.

The Mikveh, being a shadow of John's baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, (IE. Baptism of Christ) was for purification, not for remission of sin, like that of what Esaias prophesied saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight, Isaiah 40:3. In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins, Matthew 3:1-6. John said, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, Matthew 3:11.

What does the above have to do with anything? You are appealing to the OT to argue against NT baptism?

Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance.

Where does the Bible say that baptism is a “work we do”? You just made that up. We are commanded to be baptized. We are also commanded to believe. Why is one a work and the other not a work?
Were the Ephesians baptized in water? You people that teach this stuff act like the Ephesians had never even seen water. Oh. And it was Paul that gave these people the Spirit. They obviously didnt receive your “baptism of the Spirit”.

John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. John's water baptism was only for repentance as being prepared for the coming of the Lord as the water represented the washing away of sin, or as John put it "prepare ye the way of the Lord". It is not clear in scripture that Jesus ever baptized anyone in water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin.

John 4.
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:1-2
Why does it say Jesus baptized? It’s because he taught baptism. He taught the same thing as John the Baptist. It does not matter who literally dunks you in water. it doesn’t matter today either.
We know why Jesus was baptized. The text tells us….to fulfill all righteousness.
Could Jesus be considered righteous if he disobeyed his fathers command. That would look good. hes out there teaching and preaching baptism but would not even do it himself? That would be good.

This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day as God gave Him full power and authority here on earth and there after Jesus went about teaching the disciples as it was not Jesus who the Pharisees heard that He baptized more than John did, John 4:1-3 but His disciples baptizing others in water for remission of sin after the death of John the Baptist as all together they would have baptized others in water for the remission of sin then John could at one time. Jesus could not baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost after He ascended up to the Father and the Father sent down the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2.


John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit,

it never mentions the word either. So why do you get to insert word and I don’t get to insert baptism? The context and just the word water lends the understanding to be baptism A lot more then it ever leads us to “the word”.

which means water as living water, word of God,

The living water in John 7 is speaking of the miraculous that would be given to the church beginning at Pentecost. I believe it goes hand in hand with the prophecy of Joel mentioned by Peter in his sermon in acts 2. Acts 2:16-21
This has NOTHING to do with being “born again”. It was after converts were “born again” that they received the gifts of the spirit. If not then why are we told in acts 8….
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:12-16
Why had they not received the spirit if your doctrine is correct? They had believed and been baptized (saved, born again) but It took an apostle for them to receive the spirit.
oh, it must be some invisible, indiscernible measure of the Spirit? Yes that makes sense. Even the Prophets and apostles didnt know that they had received your baptism of the Spirit.

that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the hearing of the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse.

Gods word is never mentioned in the verse either! We need to make that clear. If I don’t get baptism then you don’t get “the word”. So where does that leave us.

God's word is living water as described in John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22.

I believe Eph 5:26 that you posted earlier is a parallel passage to Jn 3:5.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:26
The washing of water (baptism) by the word (Spirit)
This is born of water and the spirit.
What is the sword of the Spirit? The word. Who gave us the word? The Spirit. Would we know anything about the plan of salvation if the Spirit didnt tell us? No The fruit of the Spirt is in righteousness and truth Eph 5:9. Would we know truth if it wasn’t for the Spirit?

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

HE DID SAY THAT! What does this mean?
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved! That is out of the mouth of Jesus. It doesn’t get any clearer than this.
You think someone can be saved and NOT born again? They are one and the same.
One first must hear. What dose he hear? The words of the Spirit.
He then believes what he heard
Then he acts in obedience and is baptized in order to remove sins. I cant believe you want to make “water” mean word but you deny it when Jesus tells us plainly exactly what he means.

Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

What about repentance? What about confession? Have you forgotten those? Im sure you love Rom 10:9.
Being obedient in baptism is no way a contradiction in the same way being obedient in repentance and confession isnt either.

 

[Cnkw3]

Did you even read my post #103 or taken the time to study those scriptures I gave. Have you ever read the history of Jerusalem and the water situation within the city or seen pics of archeology findings? Go look it up for yourself as I already talked about the pools in Jerusalem, but yet no way could 3000 be baptized in one day after hearing Peter's first sermon, especially being immersed in sacred pools. The Jordon was the only close river to Jerusalem and took a full day to walk there.

Wow. You have so much information that nobody else has ever had in the last 2000 years. Scholar after scholar after scholar attest to the fact that 3000 were baptized in water but you come along and say “its not possible” because you have studied it. I just got this off the first site I just went to on the internet.

“Where did they baptize? Yes, it is very reasonable to think they were baptized in these already-existing and already-about-purity mikva’ot. If you would like to read a solid explanation of the mikva’ot, see E.P. Sanders, Judaism: Practice and Belief, 364-378.

Some 500 mikva’ot means it would not have been difficult to find water for all 3000.”

I didnt even need to study it and find that there is plenty of evidence to say that it could have been done. You don’t like my sources? I don’t like yours either.

 

[for_his_glory]

I was asking you a question. there was a question mark. You had said…verses 4-31 was Jesus saying what must happen before his second coming.

Vs. 4-31 are all about those things that must come to pass first. Vs. 3-8 are the beginning of sorrows. then from vs. 9-31 Jesus proceeds to tell them of the signs of the end of the age, which means the end of the world.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Verse 2? Thats it? The question about the temple comes in verse 3. You have Jesus answering a question that has not even been asked yet. And you have him answering it all in one verse? Really?

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus began by telling them about the destruction of the temple that happened in 70AD during the destruction of Jerusalem. From there on Jesus continued to answer the last two questions they asked.

This the the question about the temple. He had just said that there would not be one stone left. He specifically said….”see all these things” (speaking of the temple) and then they said…when shall these things be?

All these things was Jesus telling them about the destruction of Jerusalem that they would see in their lifetime.

Amen. Verse 4-34 is about the destruction of jerusalem. Jesus answered their question. This is why no Christian’s died during this siege. They new what to look for.

There were many Christians living in Jerusalem in 70AD that were slaughtered by the Roman guards. The ancient historian Josephus, Tacitus and Flavius said there were around 600,000 to 1,100,000 Jews killed during this siege. Being that this happened during the time of Passover there would have been many Christians that lived and also traveled there for the festival of Passover.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. Do you really think that all of God's own survived? No.

No it wouldnt. He clearly changes the narrative at verse 36.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:26,36-39
Up above there were clear signs to see. Here there are no signs. it will just happen. There were clear signs that jerusalem was about to be destroyed There are no signs for the coming of Christ. That is why we are to be ready everyday.

Wow, seriously!!! What about what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 about His second coming. If that is not a clear sign then I don't know what is.

This is why we must be ready as no one knows when Christ will return, but He did give us the signs to watch for, unless you are a preterist that thinks all prophecies have already been fulfilled.

 

[for_his_glory]

What does the above have to do with anything? You are appealing to the OT to argue against NT baptism?

Where does the Bible say that baptism is a “work we do”? You just made that up. We are commanded to be baptized. We are also commanded to believe. Why is one a work and the other not a work?
Were the Ephesians baptized in water? You people that teach this stuff act like the Ephesians had never even seen water. Oh. And it was Paul that gave these people the Spirit. They obviously didnt receive your “baptism of the Spirit”.


John 4.
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:1-2
Why does it say Jesus baptized? It’s because he taught baptism. He taught the same thing as John the Baptist. It does not matter who literally dunks you in water. it doesn’t matter today either.
We know why Jesus was baptized. The text tells us….to fulfill all righteousness.
Could Jesus be considered righteous if he disobeyed his fathers command. That would look good. hes out there teaching and preaching baptism but would not even do it himself? That would be good.

it never mentions the word either. So why do you get to insert word and I don’t get to insert baptism? The context and just the word water lends the understanding to be baptism A lot more then it ever leads us to “the word”.


The living water in John 7 is speaking of the miraculous that would be given to the church beginning at Pentecost. I believe it goes hand in hand with the prophecy of Joel mentioned by Peter in his sermon in acts 2. Acts 2:16-21
This has NOTHING to do with being “born again”. It was after converts were “born again” that they received the gifts of the spirit. If not then why are we told in acts 8….
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:12-16
Why had they not received the spirit if your doctrine is correct? They had believed and been baptized (saved, born again) but It took an apostle for them to receive the spirit.
oh, it must be some invisible, indiscernible measure of the Spirit? Yes that makes sense. Even the Prophets and apostles didnt know that they had received your baptism of the Spirit.

Gods word is never mentioned in the verse either! We need to make that clear. If I don’t get baptism then you don’t get “the word”. So where does that leave us.

I believe Eph 5:26 that you posted earlier is a parallel passage to Jn 3:5.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:26
The washing of water (baptism) by the word (Spirit)
This is born of water and the spirit.
What is the sword of the Spirit? The word. Who gave us the word? The Spirit. Would we know anything about the plan of salvation if the Spirit didnt tell us? No The fruit of the Spirt is in righteousness and truth Eph 5:9. Would we know truth if it wasn’t for the Spirit?

HE DID SAY THAT! What does this mean?
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved! That is out of the mouth of Jesus. It doesn’t get any clearer than this.
You think someone can be saved and NOT born again? They are one and the same.
One first must hear. What dose he hear? The words of the Spirit.
He then believes what he heard
Then he acts in obedience and is baptized in order to remove sins. I cant believe you want to make “water” mean word but you deny it when Jesus tells us plainly exactly what he means.

What about repentance? What about confession? Have you forgotten those? Im sure you love Rom 10:9.
Being obedient in baptism is no way a contradiction in the same way being obedient in repentance and confession isnt either.

I'm no longer going to answer your lengthy post as it takes to long. I would appreciate it if you would ask me a couple of questions at a time and let me answer them and then you can ask me more.

 

[for_his_glory]

What does the above have to do with anything? You are appealing to the OT to argue against NT baptism?

Where does the Bible say that baptism is a “work we do”? You just made that up. We are commanded to be baptized. We are also commanded to believe. Why is one a work and the other not a work?
Were the Ephesians baptized in water? You people that teach this stuff act like the Ephesians had never even seen water. Oh. And it was Paul that gave these people the Spirit. They obviously didnt receive your “baptism of the Spirit”.


John 4.
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:1-2
Why does it say Jesus baptized? It’s because he taught baptism. He taught the same thing as John the Baptist. It does not matter who literally dunks you in water. it doesn’t matter today either.
We know why Jesus was baptized. The text tells us….to fulfill all righteousness.
Could Jesus be considered righteous if he disobeyed his fathers command. That would look good. hes out there teaching and preaching baptism but would not even do it himself? That would be good.

it never mentions the word either. So why do you get to insert word and I don’t get to insert baptism? The context and just the word water lends the understanding to be baptism A lot more then it ever leads us to “the word”.


The living water in John 7 is speaking of the miraculous that would be given to the church beginning at Pentecost. I believe it goes hand in hand with the prophecy of Joel mentioned by Peter in his sermon in acts 2. Acts 2:16-21
This has NOTHING to do with being “born again”. It was after converts were “born again” that they received the gifts of the spirit. If not then why are we told in acts 8….
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:12-16
Why had they not received the spirit if your doctrine is correct? They had believed and been baptized (saved, born again) but It took an apostle for them to receive the spirit.
oh, it must be some invisible, indiscernible measure of the Spirit? Yes that makes sense. Even the Prophets and apostles didnt know that they had received your baptism of the Spirit.

Gods word is never mentioned in the verse either! We need to make that clear. If I don’t get baptism then you don’t get “the word”. So where does that leave us.

I believe Eph 5:26 that you posted earlier is a parallel passage to Jn 3:5.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:26
The washing of water (baptism) by the word (Spirit)
This is born of water and the spirit.
What is the sword of the Spirit? The word. Who gave us the word? The Spirit. Would we know anything about the plan of salvation if the Spirit didnt tell us? No The fruit of the Spirt is in righteousness and truth Eph 5:9. Would we know truth if it wasn’t for the Spirit?

HE DID SAY THAT! What does this mean?
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved! That is out of the mouth of Jesus. It doesn’t get any clearer than this.
You think someone can be saved and NOT born again? They are one and the same.
One first must hear. What dose he hear? The words of the Spirit.
He then believes what he heard
Then he acts in obedience and is baptized in order to remove sins. I cant believe you want to make “water” mean word but you deny it when Jesus tells us plainly exactly what he means.

What about repentance? What about confession? Have you forgotten those? Im sure you love Rom 10:9.
Being obedient in baptism is no way a contradiction in the same way being obedient in repentance and confession isnt either.

Is it river water that cleans us making us Spiritually renewed again, or is it by the blood of Christ that cleans away our sin and indwells us with the Holy Spirit?

First we confess we are a sinner and through repentance we confess Jesus as Lord and Savior as it's through God's grace being a free gift that no one can work for, but to only receive His gift. Jesus is that gift of God's grace to all who will believe and receive Him. At the time of confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior then we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who will teach us all truths. Jesus would have had no time to teach the words God gave Him if He went around baptizing people everywhere He traveled to.

 

[jerry63935]

I was converted, repented, and was baptized calling on the name of the Lord for the remission of my past sins.
That application of the blood of Christ provided me with justification and sanctification.
My salvation is now in the hands of God who will make the final ruling on my faithfulness.

see baptism has nothing to do with our sins only symbolic old man dies goes to watery grave resurrected out of the watery grave, the moment we get saved we are justified and sanctified. if you feel the need to have water baptism essential to salvation be my guest. you just added works

 

[for_his_glory]

Wow. You have so much information that nobody else has ever had in the last 2000 years. Scholar after scholar after scholar attest to the fact that 3000 were baptized in water but you come along and say “its not possible” because you have studied it. I just got this off the first site I just went to on the internet.

“Where did they baptize? Yes, it is very reasonable to think they were baptized in these already-existing and already-about-purity mikva’ot. If you would like to read a solid explanation of the mikva’ot, see E.P. Sanders, Judaism: Practice and Belief, 364-378.

Some 500 mikva’ot means it would not have been difficult to find water for all 3000.”

I didnt even need to study it and find that there is plenty of evidence to say that it could have been done. You don’t like my sources? I don’t like yours either.

Information comes from deeper studies.

I will retract about what I said about not being able to be baptized in purity pools as there were around 500 pools around Jerusalem in that day of Pentecost. But, the point being is where did John the Baptist ever speak about being immersed in water to obtain salvation or to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Why did John say that he must decrease and Jesus increase?

Salvation in Christ had not come yet when John was baptizing as his was for "prepare ye the way of the Lord" where repentance comes first, but not yet being Spiritually born again from above. People repented of their sins before they were immersed, so the water only symbolized the cleaning away of sin. It wasn't until Jesus came that He was baptized in water by John to fulfill righteousness, but also to identify with humanity as he being the word of God who knew no sin. What other reason would Jesus have to be baptized in water, but to identify with humanity.

John said in Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This is the baptism of Christ as the Holy Spirit was not come down yet during John's baptism. The 120 in the upper room that day received the indwelling of the Holy, given fire which means God's power and authority in order to carry out the will of God in order to take His word out into the nations. The 3000 that day could have been baptized in water, but we can only assume this. We do know they were baptized into Christ Baptism receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit like those in the upper room as they went back to where they traveled from and witnessed the word of God to others as many of the disciples were sent to where they lived to help teach them.

If you do not want to believe this then that is your choice, but it all comes from the very word of God if you would allow yourself to learn this yourself instead of what others are teaching you that you are indoctrinated in.

 

[jerry63935]

Did christ need to be baptized to be saved? for the remission of sins

2 Corinthians 5:21​

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

 

[for_his_glory]

What disqualifies a caller is one that walks by his own will and a carnal knowledge that sways others away from truth.