Are All who call upon the Name of the LORD Jesus saved? What can disqualify a "caller"?

[for_his_glory]

Yes we have to understand what that verse means and it is not talking about some future event for us 2000 years later. If you read Matt 24 carefully you’ll see Christ was answering the question that the apostles asked about the temple. So those signs and that salvation was for those in Jerusalem at the time of the destruction that came 40 years later in 70 AD.

Matthew 24:1-2 the disciples were showing Jesus the buildings of the temple then Jesus told them that there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. That happened in 70AD.

If you read Matthew 24:3 the disciples asked three questions.
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? From verse 4-31 Jesus told them of all those things that must come first before His second coming.

 

[for_his_glory]

What covenant did the thief live under? Because Jesus saved a number of people while he walked this earth. How about the paralytic? He only wanted to walk again and Jesus said….your sins are forgiven you. Why does it have to be the thief? Can I be saved and not even want forgiveness of sins Like the paralytic. Jesus told the rich man to go sell everything and he would have eternal life. Is that the plan of salvation for us today? Im just saying…Why the thief?
AFTER Jesus died and AFTER the thief had been gone days Jesus instituted the NEW COVENANT. His new will and testament. Heb 9:14-17
He said..go into all the world and preach the gospel (did the thief ever hear this?) He that believes this gospel and is baptized shall be saved. Again…Did the thief ever here that message that was for everyone?
Where does it say…he called on the name of the lord?

There is the case of the thief on the cross who recognized who Jesus truly was and called on the name of Jesus as He told the thief he would be with Christ in paradise that very day as he believed in Christ. Same with the women who was to be stoned for adultery, the women at the well, death bed confessions. Does this mean they are not saved or born again, no. Those who Jesus healed was to show them and others the sovereignty of God as I would think they became followers of Christ.

What about those who are incapacitated that can not be immersed in water. Does this mean they are not saved or born again, no. It means that no dirty river water is going to save anyone, but that it is only a symbol of repentance like that of John the baptist who called those to repent first. There is nothing wrong with being dunked in water, but know that it is only an outward appearance to others of what has already taken place Spiritually within you when you repented, accepted Jesus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[jerry63935]

There is nothing wrong with being dunked in water, but know that it is only an outward appearance to others of what has already taken place Spiritually within you when you repented, accepted Jesus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

exactly

 

[Cnkw3]

i am sure you are sorry that you are confused on water baptism which follows salvation not precedes it

hahaha! Ok. So Jesus says….
He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
Clearly salvation comes after baptism. This is also supported in acts 2:38.
This is reading comp 101. And you want to tell me that Jesus lied and didnt know what he was talking about.
Good luck with that!

 

[Alfred Persson]

SO AS A LOST MAN all i got do is just survive to be saved

No, the context of Christ's words is to those already His disciples (Mt. 24:9). Saved "physically", raptured before they are slain by the Antichrist.

 

[Cnkw3]

There is the case of the thief on the cross who recognized who Jesus truly was and called on the name of Jesus as He told the thief he would be with Christ in paradise that very day as he believed in Christ. Same with the women who was to be stoned for adultery, the women at the well, death bed confessions. Does this mean they are not saved or born again, no. Those who Jesus healed was to show them and others the sovereignty of God as I would think they became followers of Christ.

Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Mark 2:9-10
did Jesus have power “on earth” to forgive sins? Yes.
Is he “on earth” now? No.
Then how does Jesus forgive sins now since we cant talk with him face to face?
Through the gospel which he began on Pentecost!
Did the thief or any of these other people you mentioned hear the gospel, his new will and testament, that began on Pentecost? No. have you heard it? Yes. Then why can you ignore the gospel he commanded to be preached “to all the world”. Words the thief never heard.

What about those who are incapacitated that can not be immersed in water. Does this mean they are not saved or born again,

Who are you talking about? Ive seen crippled people baptized.

no. It means that no dirty river water is going to save anyone,

Nobody says it does. It is a condition God commanded in order to be saved. Did God give Israel the city of Jericho? Did they still have to follow his instructions? Yes. What if they didnt? Do you still think God would have allowed them to be victorious? But you get victory doing what ever you want. Even though God never told you to do it. Doesn’t work that way.

but that it is only a symbol of repentance like that of John the baptist who called those to repent first.

I noticed there is no scripture here. Where is it? The Bible says…repentance comes BEFORE baptism. Acts 2:38. Nowhere does it say…that NT baptism is “only a symbol of repentance”. You made that up.

There is nothing wrong with being dunked in water, but know that it is only an outward appearance to others of what has already taken place Spiritually within you when you repented, accepted Jesus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

again, why is there no scripture to support what you just said? Paul in Rom 6 describes water baptism in a completely different way. It is how we get into Christ. It is a burial with him. then we are raised to “walk in newness of life”. When does the “newness of life happen”? Before or after you come out of the water? Why doesn’t he say….you have a new life and then are raised with him in baptism? That’s because everyone knows that a new life happens at resurrection and not before. Before resurrection you are still dead. If Jesus would have stayed in the tomb he would still be dead.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It doesn’t mention repentance? I guess that is not required then. We can throw all those passages out. Acts 2:38. 3:19

 

[Cnkw3]

Matthew 24:1-2 the disciples were showing Jesus the buildings of the temple then Jesus told them that there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. That happened in 70AD.

If you read Matthew 24:3 the disciples asked three questions.
Tell us, when shall these things be?

What things? I think its pretty clear…
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:1-3 -
The first question they asked him was about the temple. Dont you think he answered the questions in order? How many verses did he take to answer the question about the temple? We can know by the context. In verse 34 we see this..
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:34
That is a true statement. There were people listening to this prophecy that were still alive when it happened. If its not about 70AD then we have some 2000 year old people walking around.

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? From verse 4-31 Jesus told them of all those things that must come first before His second coming.

So he started in reverse. He answered the last question first? Ok then what verses specifically deal with the coming destruction of Jerusalem?

 

[hawkman]

Even Saul was blind and praying for three days but God never came in and said…get up Saul, don’t you know you are already saved. No, he sent a preacher in to tell him how to be saved.

What did the preacher tell Saul how to be saved ?

What altar?

Not all churches have an altar , I have been in some that did not have one .
Were we given a floor plan on how to build a New Testament church building ?
Does the church you currently attend have an altar ?

Read in this link to learn more about an early house church building and it talks about the altar .
one of the earliest-known Christian churches

 

[for_his_glory]

did Jesus have power “on earth” to forgive sins? Yes.
Is he “on earth” now? No.
Then how does Jesus forgive sins now since we cant talk with him face to face?
Through the gospel which he began on Pentecost!
Did the thief or any of these other people you mentioned hear the gospel, his new will and testament, that began on Pentecost? No. have you heard it? Yes. Then why can you ignore the gospel he commanded to be preached “to all the world”. Words the thief never heard.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never stopped forgiving sins even if we do not see Him face to face. Anyone who calls on Him will be forgiven when they repent. I would think anyone living in Jerusalem while Christ was still here walking among them heard Him speak, including the thief as he finally recognized who He was while hanging on the cross.

Who are you talking about? Ive seen crippled people baptized.

Water baptism has never saved anyone. Jesus is speaking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the word water in John 3:5 means the living water being the word of God.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

Nobody says it does. It is a condition God commanded in order to be saved. Did God give Israel the city of Jericho? Did they still have to follow his instructions? Yes. What if they didnt? Do you still think God would have allowed them to be victorious? But you get victory doing what ever you want. Even though God never told you to do it. Doesn’t work that way.

again, no dirty river water is going to save anyone

I noticed there is no scripture here. Where is it? The Bible says…repentance comes BEFORE baptism. Acts 2:38. Nowhere does it say…that NT baptism is “only a symbol of repentance”. You made that up.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How are we born again? by the word of God and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This all happens at the same time we confess we are sinners needing God's grace. It's all of John 3:5, 3:16; Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 2:38 put together.

Around 3000 were baptized after hearing Peter speak. They were baptized in the Baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit after hearing the word of God through Peter. The nearest river to Jerusalem is the Jordon River and would take 23 hours to walk there. Cisterns in Jerusalem would not be deep enough for full submersion and it would have taken a very long time to baptize 3000 in all the purity pools in Jerusalem.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This is how the 3000 on the day of Pentecost and there after were/are baptized into Christ. Go study the Baptism of Christ.

again, why is there no scripture to support what you just said? Paul in Rom 6 describes water baptism in a completely different way. It is how we get into Christ. It is a burial with him. then we are raised to “walk in newness of life”. When does the “newness of life happen”? Before or after you come out of the water? Why doesn’t he say….you have a new life and then are raised with him in baptism? That’s because everyone knows that a new life happens at resurrection and not before. Before resurrection you are still dead. If Jesus would have stayed in the tomb he would still be dead.

Again, there are no redeeming powers in water. Just like John's baptism unto repentance, it's only an outward appearance to others that you repented. Jesus wasn't even present yet before John baptized Him. His baptism in water was for the purpose of relating to humanity as Jesus had no sin to repent of.

 

[for_his_glory]

What things? I think its pretty clear…
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:1-3 -
The first question they asked him was about the temple. Dont you think he answered the questions in order? How many verses did he take to answer the question about the temple? We can know by the context. In verse 34 we see this..
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:34
That is a true statement. There were people listening to this prophecy that were still alive when it happened. If its not about 70AD then we have some 2000 year old people walking around.

So he started in reverse. He answered the last question first? Ok then what verses specifically deal with the coming destruction of Jerusalem?

So if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that Jesus started in reverse from Matthew 24:31-1 going backwards to verse 1. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jesus has not returned yet, but even today we are seeing the signs of those things that must come first before He returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

hahaha! Ok. So Jesus says….
He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
Clearly salvation comes after baptism. This is also supported in acts 2:38.
This is reading comp 101. And you want to tell me that Jesus lied and didnt know what he was talking about.
Good luck with that!

You really need to go study what the Baptism of Christ is all about as it has nothing to do with actual water. Where in the below verses does it mention immersion in water first as I read them to say we must believe first and confess Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

 

[jerry63935]

we have a local church places strong emphases on water baptism for the remission of sins they are wrong but they are apostolic

 

[Alfred Persson]

hahaha! Ok. So Jesus says….
He that believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
Clearly salvation comes after baptism. This is also supported in acts 2:38.
This is reading comp 101. And you want to tell me that Jesus lied and didnt know what he was talking about.
Good luck with that!

Baptism to Jews becoming Christians was a public declaration of faith that Jesus is LORD and belief in His resurrection from the dead. When Jews did it in Jesus' day, it resulted in being cast out of the synagogue and community. It was literally selling all they owned, to follow Jesus.

The rite of baptism, the water itself, does not save. Its the answer of a good conscience before God that saves:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Pet. 3:21 KJV)

He that believes and publicly confess his belief, is saved. Public confession Jesus Christ is LORD is necessary to salvation, but it can be done by various means. At an Altar call in church or by an evangelist like Billy Graham etc or by public baptism in a church; This list is not all inclusive.....

OR by a call to a Radio Baptist Minister who had me repeat the "sinners prayer" in Romans 10

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom. 10:8-13 KJV)

I was baptized with water AFTER my public confession, AFTER I was saved, born again because of my answer of a good conscience to God before many witnesses.

That is precisely what the 3000 did on the day of Pentecost and the proof they received the Holy Spirit was in their new birth, their new love for God and His truth, and His people:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
(Acts 2:38-47 KJV)

As the text does not mention water at all, it would appear public repentance and declaration of faith in Jesus Christ as LORD (which includes belief in His resurrection), was the equivalent to "baptism" Peter said was to be done. Their faith saved them, not the water of baptism.

 

[Hopeful]

we have a local church places strong emphases on water baptism for the remission of sins they are wrong but they are apostolic

How can they be apostolic if they are wrong?
I am sure glad I could call on the name of the Lord when I was water baptized in that name for the remission of sins.

 

[Alfred Persson]

As the text does not mention water at all, it would appear public repentance and declaration of faith in Jesus Christ as LORD (which includes belief in His resurrection), was the equivalent to "baptism" Peter said was to be done. Their faith saved them, not the water of baptism.

However, that is speculative, and likely wrong for it is written:

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41 KJV)

I apologize for ending the otherwise sound post with incorrect speculation. It was a thought I now reject.

But that error which is eisegetical (an argument from silence); doesn't affect the overall thesis Baptism was more than a rite, it was a public confession before witnesses. Therefore, any public confession of faith in Jesus Christ as LORD and in His Resurrection, saves:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom. 10:9 KJV)

 

[jerry63935]

How can they be apostolic if they are wrong?
I am sure glad I could call on the name of the Lord when I was water baptized in that name for the remission of sins.

sigh*** one last time your saved the moment you call on jesus justified declared righteous not guilty just as if we never sinned. justified by faith by grace and the Blood... NOT water baptism

 

[Cnkw3]

What did the preacher tell Saul how to be saved ?

He told him to “Call on the name of the lord“. BUT, it wasn’t prayer. He did it through obedience to the conditions that God required for salvation.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16
One is not saved until there sins have been removed. And this is the point we are told when Sauls sins were removed.
Sins removed = Saved

Not all churches have an altar , I have been in some that did not have one .
Were we given a floor plan on how to build a New Testament church building ?

The “church” is not a building. It’s the people.
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 8:1
Persecution against “THE church”. Not “A church”. You cant persecute a building. You persecute the people. The church. The body of Christ. And the key is that there was only ONE. It was “the church”. Which included different local congregations.
The church does not have to meet in a building. That is usually preferred because of size and comfort but the church can meet anywhere.

Does the church you currently attend have an altar ?

No.

Read in this link to learn more about an early house church building and it talks about the altar .
one of the earliest-known Christian churches

I‘ll read it later. Instead of an “altar” they should all have access to water. the building we worship in has a big tub of water. When you believe the gospel and go forward you need water more than you need an altar. What does some altar do for you anyway. You cant pray your way into salvation. Thats proven by Saul of Tarsus.

 

[Cnkw3]

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never stopped forgiving sins even if we do not see Him face to face. Anyone who calls on Him will be forgiven when they repent. I would think anyone living in Jerusalem while Christ was still here walking among them heard Him speak, including the thief as he finally recognized who He was to the while hanging on the cross.

Well if jesus is the same then he can’t lie. So when he said….
he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. This is how one is forgiven. If not Jesus is a liar. Where did he say…
all you have to do is repent and pray for forgiveness. I don’t find that in the great commission

Water baptism has never saved anyone.

According to Jesus it saves ALL who…..
believe the gospel and is baptized. Mk 16:16 Salvation, according to the words of Jesus comes AFTER baptism and not before.

Jesus is speaking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the word water in John 3:5 means the living water being the word of God.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

No You just made that up. Even within the context of the beginning of John the topic is water baptism. John the Baptist and Jesus were preaching and practicing water baptism but the Pharisees wouldn’t do it. Lk 7:30. So this is why Jesus said what he said to Nicodemus who was a Pharisee. a few verses later we find this…
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:22
So why is Jesus baptizing in water if he just told this guy he needed to be baptized with the Spirit?

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

I don t see where “water” = word. The “word” in your text is Christ. The other three are Spirit, water and blood and you need all three to be saved. The Spirit provides the message of salvation that includes water. You are then obedient to that and its the blood that ultimately washes your sins away. Rev 1:5. Acts 22:16.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

I thought you needed to repent too. Isn’t that what you said above? Now you just have to believe. Which is it? And what passages do appeal to for that?

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him.

i would agree. How does it do it? It provides us the information and instruction God has given us on HOW to be saved and live the Christian life.

No dirty river water can save us,

It can be clean river, pond water if you wish.

but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

Where’s the passage you appeal to that says what you just said? Or did you just regurgitate what some preacher told you.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

Let’s look at Eph 5:26.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27
It is the word that tells us how to be cleansed, sanctified, spot free, without blemish. The word tells us that this happens in water baptism. We are told that through water baptism we are….saved mk 16:16, sins remitted ac 2:38, sins washed away ac 22:16, Saved 1 pet 3:21, provided a new life. Rom 6:3-5.
Were the Ephesians preached too? Yes. Were the baptized in water? Yes. Twice. Because they got it wrong the First time.

again, no dirty river water is going to save anyone

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How are we born again? by the word of God and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This all happens at the same time we confess we are sinners needing God's grace. It's all of John 3:5, 3:16; Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 2:38 put together.

Acts 2:38? You think that is HS baptism? Jesus a couple of days before this just got through commanding that they go teach all nations and baptize people. People cant baptize with the spirit. Only God can do that. What you are preaching is TWO Baptisms. Paul says in Eph 4 there is only one. The one God commanded for all time. Water.

Around 3000 were baptized after hearing Peter speak. They were baptized in the Baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit after hearing the word of God through Peter. The nearest river to Jerusalem is the Jordon River and would take 23 hours to walk there. Cisterns in Jerusalem would not be deep enough for full submersion and it would have taken a very long time to baptize 3000 in all the purity pools in Jerusalem.

You don’t know what was available at Jerusalem. That is made up. Were you there? You are one of only a few people that wont admit that acts 2:38 is water. you are way out on the fringe now. God commanded water baptism and that’s what they taught and practiced. I’ll prove it….
Here is the same preacher as acts 2
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:46-48
Here’s Peter, your man in acts 2, COMMANDING water baptism. Now who would believe that Peter commanded spirit baptism to one audience and water to another. This is the kind of nasty false doctrine I seek to destroy.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This is how the 3000 on the day of Pentecost and there after were/are baptized into Christ. Go study the Baptism of Christ.

Again, there are no redeeming powers in water. Just like John's baptism unto repentance, it's only an outward appearance to others that you repented. Jesus wasn't even present yet before John baptized Him. His baptism in water was for the purpose of relating to humanity as Jesus had no sin to repent of.

Lets let the Bible define this. In acts 1 this very phrase is repeated and the promise goes to the apostles and apostles only.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:5
Then what happened to the apostles a few days later? They were baptized with the Spirit and we know that happened because they could perform the miraculous. The baptism of the Spirit ALWAYS is accompanied with the miraculous. Why dont it happen today? because we DO NOT receive the baptism of the Spirit today.

 

[Cnkw3]

So if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that Jesus started in reverse from Matthew 24:31-1 going backwards to verse 1. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jesus has not returned yet, but even today we are seeing the signs of those things that must come first before He returns.

No. That is the opposite of what I said. Jesus answered there first question first. The first 34 verses deal with him answering about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Then he deals with his second coming.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:36-37
At the beginning he’s saying you can see signs. Signs of what? Of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Then he changes to….you wont know when the coming of Christ will be. See. One you can see coming the other you cant. And all of that has been proven true. People, for years, have tried to tell us when Christ is coming back and every time they look stupid. Dont get caught up in the newspaper headline prophecies or you too will look stupid.

 

[hawkman]

The “church” is not a building. It’s the people.
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 8:1
Persecution against “THE church”. Not “A church”. You cant persecute a building. You persecute the people. The church. The body of Christ. And the key is that there was only ONE. It was “the church”. Which included different local congregations.
The church does not have to meet in a building. That is usually preferred because of size and comfort but the church can meet anywhere.

Yes, I do understand "It's the people ", I have for a long time now. Please answer my question if you can .

Were we given a floor plan on how to build a New Testament church building ?

I‘ll read it later. Instead of an “altar” they should all have access to water. the building we worship in has a big tub of water. When you believe the gospel and go forward you need water more than you need an altar. What does some altar do for you anyway. You cant pray your way into salvation. Thats proven by Saul of Tarsus.

I think you will like the link; they talk more about water than the altar.