Are bad thoughts sin?

[godsquadgeek]

When I was going through a nervous breakdown, I thought that bad thoughts were sin, and I literally would shake in nervousness over having the right thoughts, and stopping the bad thoughts. I developed various twitches. But bad thoughts would constantly come into my mind. I heard my pastor this weekend say that bad thoughts are not sin, but that actions are sin. I looked it up online and found some sites that confirm it. Sometimes satan puts thoughts in your mind, that does not mean they are sin. It's when you entertain those thoughts, by dwelling on them to the point where they cause action (thats where it becomes sin). This makes much more sense to me. I can't believe I didn't know that for the last 23 years being saved. How much more liberty could have brought more joy and freedom in my life.

there are many verses on this page about the power of good thoughts, but nothing stating that bad thoughts are sin. One says that the evil man must repent of bad thoughts, but nothing really of the righteous man. But I could be wrong, and I welcome any arguments.

https://www.gotquestions.org/intrusive-thoughts.html

All responses welcome and verses welcome.

 

[Jim Parker]

The devils constantly assail our minds with "bad thoughts" but they are not sin in themselves. They are generally an invitation to sin.
We need to be vigilant to identify those thoughts when they enter our mine and immediately cast them out.
If we accept the thought then we are entering into temptation.
If we dwell on the thought then we are crossing over to sin. We are imagining how much fun it would be.
If we act on the thought then we again sin.
So, be vigilant, identify every "enemy thought" and kick it out before it finds a foothold from where to do damage.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, (2Cor 10:4-5)

And then:

... finally brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is any anything praiseworthy - meditate on these things. (Phl 4:8)

iakov the fool

 

[WIP]

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad thoughts" but there is this from Scripture.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." Matthew 5:21-22 NKJV

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..." Matthew 5:43-44 NKJV

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
Matthew 6:9-13 NKJV
Is it God's will for us to think bad thoughts? Is sin not going against God's will?

I thank God that I can turn to Jesus in times of trouble and strife and He stands with me to help me through it.

 

[godsquadgeek]

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad thoughts" but there is this from Scripture.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." Matthew 5:21-22 NKJV

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..." Matthew 5:43-44 NKJV

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
Matthew 6:9-13 NKJV
Is it God's will for us to think bad thoughts? Is sin not going against God's will?

I thank God that I can turn to Jesus in times of trouble and strife and He stands with me to help me through it.

Thanks for the post. There is a fine line between having a thought about something and acting physically on it, very fine. Thats why all the scripture about mortifying the flesh and thinking about purity. But bad thoughts are not sinful unless you act on them in my opinion. So with having a angry thought does not become sin until you actually become angry (which is murder to God), and a lustful thoughts are not sin until you actually lust physically by looking or doing other acts (which is adultery to God). And sometimes satan can actually put thoughts in your head. He can't read your mind, but He can oppress you with negative thoughts. This isn't sin. But I think dwelling on them can lead to sin.

 

[WIP]

How do you rectify you statement that it takes action in light of Matthew 5:27-28 for example? What Jesus describes is clearly a thought without action.

 

[GodsGrace]

When I was going through a nervous breakdown, I thought that bad thoughts were sin, and I literally would shake in nervousness over having the right thoughts, and stopping the bad thoughts. I developed various twitches. But bad thoughts would constantly come into my mind. I heard my pastor this weekend say that bad thoughts are not sin, but that actions are sin. I looked it up online and found some sites that confirm it. Sometimes satan puts thoughts in your mind, that does not mean they are sin. It's when you entertain those thoughts, by dwelling on them to the point where they cause action (thats where it becomes sin). This makes much more sense to me. I can't believe I didn't know that for the last 23 years being saved. How much more liberty could have brought more joy and freedom in my life.

there are many verses on this page about the power of good thoughts, but nothing stating that bad thoughts are sin. One says that the evil man must repent of bad thoughts, but nothing really of the righteous man. But I could be wrong, and I welcome any arguments.

https://www.gotquestions.org/intrusive-thoughts.html

All responses welcome and verses welcome.

Thoughts are not a sin.
Thoughts come and go and we can hardly control them.
Of course, the more we concentrate on God and good things (Philippians 4:8) the less we should have them, but it's impossible not to have any if we live in the world.

What makes thoughts be a sin is when we dwell on them and they go to the heart or they become action.

For instance, if I see a friend and her hair looks terrible. I WILL think this. It's unavoidable.
To dwell on it would be to start thinking of how she could go out looking like that, or what dumb hairdresser does she use, or how long it's been since she washed her hair, etc...

Our charity towards others, or our love towards others, should immediately stop any further thoughts. And if they do come, we ask forgiveness.

 

[GodsGrace]

How do you rectify you statement that it takes action in light of Matthew 5:27-28 for example? What Jesus describes is clearly a thought without action.

Lust.
Lust goes to the heart.
(looks on a woman to lust for her. NASB)

 

[godsquadgeek]

How do you rectify you statement that it takes action in light of Matthew 5:27-28 for example? What Jesus describes is clearly a thought without action.

Looking is a physical action. Your eyes physically stare.

 

[brujaq]

 

[brujaq]

I have rebuked my thoughts thousands of times until I began to bring my mind under control with the Word .. We can have uncontrolled thoughts fly by but out of the abundance of the heart our mouth speaks .. I think it is one of the main evidences of salvation to realise the need to bring your carnal mind under submission ..

 

[WIP]

Looking is a physical action. Your eyes physically stare.

But it doesn't end with the looking. The thoughts can remain even after the physical situation no longer exists. This is part of the reason I believe Jesus gave the example of adultery. We often think that we're not sinful if we don't act on our thoughts but Jesus dispels this myth when He said, "You think you're good because you don't commit adultery? I tell you, you even so much as think of someone with lust and you have already committed adultery." (paraphrasing my understanding). This just reinforces even more our need for a savior and how we are incapable of saving ourselves.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Based on the verses WIP gave, it's my conclusion that sinful thoughts are sins as well. But to Godsquadgeek's reaction I get it. Tried and failed many times in my teens to fight against lust. Today I hold simular battles against being frustrated and losing patience to anger. These are still sins, but there is hope. My figuring is that because of sin we need God all the more. At least for me, I've tried and failed to remove a sin on my own. But I have had help when praying about it. Giving it to God to deal with while I try to struggle through it.

And that's my conclusion. Sinful thoughts are sins too, and they show our need for God. Possibly also show our weaknesses when we don't focus on God, and keep Him out of our daily lives.

 

[godsquadgeek]

But it doesn't end with the looking. The thoughts can remain even after the physical situation no longer exists. This is part of the reason I believe Jesus gave the example of adultery. We often think that we're not sinful if we don't act on our thoughts but Jesus dispels this myth when He said, "You think you're good because you don't commit adultery? I tell you, you even so much as think of someone with lust and you have already committed adultery." (paraphrasing my understanding). This just reinforces even more our need for a savior and how we are incapable of saving ourselves.

I understand your way of thinking, however technically this verse only condemns looking with lust, not thoughts. Just this morning there were weird lustful thoughts, but I repented of them as I knew they were from the enemy not me. I knew it was only in my mind and that I would not act on them, and the temptation was gone. It's repenting of them physically that allows for mental repentance as well.

 

[Free]

I understand your way of thinking, however technically this verse only condemns looking with lust, not thoughts.

There is no lusting without thoughts, that's rather the point. Sudden intrusive thoughts are not sinful in and of themselves, but when we let our minds begin to dwell on those thoughts, thinking lustfully or whatever, then that is sin.

 

[godsquadgeek]

There is no lusting without thoughts, that's rather the point. Sudden intrusive thoughts are not sinful in and of themselves, but when we let our minds begin to dwell on those thoughts, thinking lustfully or whatever, then that is sin.

When I repent of thoughts that I may have dwelled on too long, it is not because I dwelled on them too long, it's because it may physically manifest. It feels like sin therefore it is, is not a legitimate reason for declaring it biblically so. But I see your point. But it important not to add too many rules to the christian faith, after all If Christ has set us free, we are free indeed. John 8:36

 

[godsquadgeek]

Based on the verses WIP gave, it's my conclusion that sinful thoughts are sins as well. But to Godsquadgeek's reaction I get it. Tried and failed many times in my teens to fight against lust. Today I hold simular battles against being frustrated and losing patience to anger. These are still sins, but there is hope. My figuring is that because of sin we need God all the more. At least for me, I've tried and failed to remove a sin on my own. But I have had help when praying about it. Giving it to God to deal with while I try to struggle through it.

And that's my conclusion. Sinful thoughts are sins too, and they show our need for God. Possibly also show our weaknesses when we don't focus on God, and keep Him out of our daily lives.

well I believe that if there are sins we do not repent of it can cause forfeiture of salvation*, which is another topic, while you may wish to politely coexist with it, I fear it literally. That is why it's important to draw the distinction. It feels like sin therefore it is, is not a legitimate reason for declaring it biblically so. I will look up the adultery verse in some commentaries later, to make sure. But I am fairly certain no scholars I know of are declaring thoughts sinful on the basis of that passage.

more on forfeiture of salvation*
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...ven-god-gives-up-on-us-romans-1-26-2-1.72060/

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for the memories!
What a great program.
Jerry must be a Christian!!
He explained it perfectly.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Its like looking at the sun, you take peak, then look away...Perfect

 

[Free]

When I repent of thoughts that I may have dwelled on too long, it is not because I dwelled on them too long, it's because it may physically manifest. It feels like sin therefore it is, is not a legitimate reason for declaring it biblically so. But I see your point. But it important not to add too many rules to the christian faith, after all If Christ has set us free, we are free indeed. John 8:36

It has nothing to do with adding rules but understanding what the Bible says. That it may manifest physically is not at all Jesus's point. His whole point is that thinking lustfully about a woman is adultery. Our thoughts can most certainly be sinful if we wilfully and purposefully dwell on something.

well I believe that if there are sins we do not repent of it can cause forfeiture of salvation*, which is another topic, while you may wish to politely coexist with it, I fear it literally. That is why it's important to draw the distinction. It feels like sin therefore it is, is not a legitimate reason for declaring it biblically so. I will look up the adultery verse in some commentaries later, to make sure. But I am fairly certain no scholars I know of are declaring thoughts sinful on the basis of that passage.

more on forfeiture of salvation*
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...ven-god-gives-up-on-us-romans-1-26-2-1.72060/

So you don't actually believe that "if Christ has set us free, we are free in deed." It's no wonder you had a nervous breakdown; you don't understand what Scripture states on the matter. Nowhere does the Bible teach that sins we do not repent of can cause forfeiture of salvation. We would all end up in hell if that were the case, as there are sins of commission and sins of omission.

 

[godsquadgeek]

It has nothing to do with adding rules but understanding what the Bible says. That it may manifest physically is not at all Jesus's point. His whole point is that thinking lustfully about a woman is adultery. Our thoughts can most certainly be sinful if we wilfully and purposefully dwell on something.


So you don't actually believe that "if Christ has set us free, we are free in deed." It's no wonder you had a nervous breakdown; you don't understand what Scripture states on the matter. Nowhere does the Bible teach that sins we do not repent of can cause forfeiture of salvation. We would all end up in hell if that were the case, as there are sins of commission and sins of omission.

It has nothing to do with adding rules but understanding what the Bible says. That it may manifest physically is not at all Jesus's point. His whole point is that thinking lustfully about a woman is adultery. Our thoughts can most certainly be sinful if we wilfully and purposefully dwell on something.

your main text is that when you look at a woman with lust, you are committing adultery in the heart, and i said that it was the looking that was sinful not the thought. and for my proof I am quoting the next verse: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." Matthew 5:29 See if it was sin to think about it, then Jesus would have said to chop off your head and throw your brain in the trash, but He didn't, He said to get rid of the part of the body that physically sinned, it was your eyes. You control your eyes, yes, but it was the eyes that physically sinned. Like I said before you can think of stuff, but don't dwell on it because the body soon follows the thoughts, regardless of if you want it to or not. in the same passage it mentions another sin anger.

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

notice in the passage above there are two physical manifestations of thoughts that are sins. One is anger. Your thoughts can be frustrated without sin yes, but as soon as they manifest that frustration, in a physical frustration or even anger or hatred, then it's sin. And Jesus says at that point it is just like murder. The other manifestation was telling someone with your mouth "hey you fool!", or "hey you idiot!", that is a sin because your thoughts have become manifested by your tongue. So in all situations, whether it's an angry look, a lustful eye, or a spiteful tongue. They are sin because they are manifested. Renewing our mind Romans 12:2 will allow us not to manifest those angry thoughts because we will reign in the anger before it comes out. Proverbs 4:23 says guard your heart for everything flows from it. IF you can do those things and to be disciplined as 2 timothy 1:7 says, then your mind will become a wonderful tool for the Lords work. Not a computer programmed by the world, but a tool of God.

So you don't actually believe that "if Christ has set us free, we are free in deed." It's no wonder you had a nervous breakdown; you don't understand what Scripture states on the matter. Nowhere does the Bible teach that sins we do not repent of can cause forfeiture of salvation. We would all end up in hell if that were the case, as there are sins of commission and sins of omission.

I do not believe in once saved always saved. I believe I have eternal security because I want to be saved, yes..., But if for some reason I decided not to be saved, God would not force salvation on me at that point. I would have forfeited it.