Are bad thoughts sin?

[Not_Now.Soon]

Hi NNS
I'm reading along and there is so much misunderstanding that sometimes I just want to throw up my arms.

We all sin. It's not sin that makes us lose our salvation UNLESS it's a purposeful returning to a LIFE OF SIN. God can forgive all and any sin. What makes us lose our salvation is willfully returning to the road that does NOT lead to God, but the road that leads to satan. Even Jesus said the road to God is narrow, the gate is narrow, because not all take that road. In fact, most do not.

When a person is on the road going TOWARD GOD, he is headed toward God. Sinning does not mean he's changed his direction -- it's only a failure, we just get up and keep on heading toward God.

The O.P. said something about unconfessed sin. We all have sin we've forgotten or may not even think IS sin... I think what he means is that we should be sorry for our sin when we confess it. You know, God cannot be mocked.

We just have to decide if we're headed toward God or headed toward the enemy.
It's our heading that counts. We're not getting to Florida on Route 80.
We just have to be on the right route.

That's a perspective I hope on too. Keep working towards God. However the idea that our thoughts are not included with our sins. The verses quoted in Mathew point to this.

Satan put the thought in Judas' heart
and Judas ACTED upon the thought.

A thought by itself, without its moving to the heart, iis not sinful.

We need to conquor our thoughts though. Or have God in our hearts to keep our evil thoughts at bay. Consider God's warning to Cain after Cain was jealous of Able.

Genesis 4:6-7

Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

I can say from my experiences the same is true with our thoughts. We might think one thing, but if we give it ground to grow it becomes worse. Until it becomes overbearing and influences us with our struggles or with our submission to that sin. Salvation is a different issue, even though it is related. But our our thoughts are where are heart is.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The context is everything. One is a sin and one is not. I would consider that a significant difference.

We have a responsibility with regards to our own motives and our own thoughts. Regardless where they come from they are in us and are our responsibility to deal with them. In my opinion it has to be an active fight. One problem is that often we don't know how to fight the enemy from within us. But still we must.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe this is the correct interpretation. Let me put it another way. Someone doesn't see an opportunity to steal something, take it and thus become a thief. They were first a thief in their heart and saw an opportunity to act upon it and did so. This I beleive is what the scripture is referring too. Guard your heart, renew your mind. If you dwell on sinful things they can work there way into your heart where you will eventually act upon them. The initial thought can't be sin, because Jesus was tempted in all ways like us, yet was without sin. It is the constant dwelling upon the thoughts that will eventually become sin.

Right.
We are no longer thieves in our heart.
I used to lust for jewelry. I live in a small town and many times I'm left all alone with it and the owner goes to answer a phone or something.
How many times have I thought how easy it would be to just take something. So they have cameras --- big deal. How to prove anything once I'm out of that store?? It couldn't be done.

But the thought stayed in my mind. It never went to my heart. I would never really do this.
So how is it a sin? It was a normal thought. Thoughts come and go.

I agree with your assessment.

 

[WIP]

Right.
We are no longer thieves in our heart.
I used to lust for jewelry. I live in a small town and many times I'm left all alone with it and the owner goes to answer a phone or something.
How many times have I thought how easy it would be to just take something. So they have cameras --- big deal. How to prove anything once I'm out of that store?? It couldn't be done.

But the thought stayed in my mind. It never went to my heart. I would never really do this.
So how is it a sin? It was a normal thought. Thoughts come and go.

I agree with your assessment.

What about covetousness? Were you not coveting the jewelry?

 

[GodsGrace]

What about covetousness? Were you not coveting the jewelry?

What does it mean to covet?
Does it mean to desire that jewelry?
Does it mean to want something that belongs to a neighbor?

As far as I can understand, coveting is the same as adultery.
Covet means to want to own something that someone else has.
It contains envy in there somewhere.
How far do I let the coveting go?
I can desire a ring -- how far am I willing to go to get one?
As far as sinning??

I don't see the difference between coveting and lusting after something.
Do you?

 

[WIP]

What does it mean to covet?
Does it mean to desire that jewelry?
Does it mean to want something that belongs to a neighbor?

As far as I can understand, coveting is the same as adultery.
Covet means to want to own something that someone else has.
It contains envy in there somewhere.
How far do I let the coveting go?
I can desire a ring -- how far am I willing to go to get one?
As far as sinning??

I don't see the difference between coveting and lusting after something.
Do you?

As I read your post #43 I got the impression that you coveted the jewelry enough to ponder the consequences. Is that not sinful? I believe it is. I was a thief in my younger years and coveted many things and in my opinion it was sinful every time.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I read your post #43 I got the impression that you coveted the jewelry enough to ponder the consequences. Is that not sinful? I believe it is. I was a thief in my younger years and coveted many things and in my opinion it was sinful every time.

No WIP !!
I did not ponder it enough to weigh the consequences !!
I could afford to buy my jewelry.
It was just thoughts going through my head.
I lived in NY. Imagine leaving a whole tray of jewelry ALONE with a customer ! It's unheard of.
I just meant to explain how easy it would be.

If you ponder the consequences and do not steal it because of the consequences you're following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. You've sinned in the heart and it requires forgiveness. When we love Jesus we don't wish to disappoint Him (although we do at times).

It's kind of like going to church and not really wanting to be there ---
you could have stayed at home; same difference.

I find it a little difficult to discuss spiritual matters without writing a book - something very easy for me...

I hope you understand what I'm saying...

 

[WIP]

No WIP !!
I did not ponder it enough to weigh the consequences !!
I could afford to buy my jewelry.
It was just thoughts going through my head.
I lived in NY. Imagine leaving a whole tray of jewelry ALONE with a customer ! It's unheard of.
I just meant to explain how easy it would be.

If you ponder the consequences and do not steal it because of the consequences you're following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. You've sinned in the heart and it requires forgiveness. When we love Jesus we don't wish to disappoint Him (although we do at times).

It's kind of like going to church and not really wanting to be there ---
you could have stayed at home; same difference.

I find it a little difficult to discuss spiritual matters without writing a book - something very easy for me...

I hope you understand what I'm saying...

Sometimes I think we attempt to split hairs or play attorney for the purpose of justifying our own sinful behavior. You may be right and I may be wrong but as I read the whole of Scripture and how Jesus explained the spirit of the law in His sermon (Matthew 5-7), I'm convinced that we sin more often than we even realize and it reinforces our need for a savior.

Sort of like how I understand at least part of the reason for God giving Moses and the people of Israel the 10 Commandments. It wasn't only to provide a guide but also to show them how wrong they were. In other words He was basically saying, "You think you're good? Let me show you how good you really are." and then He proceeded to deliver the 10 Commandments to point out the errors they had been making.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sometimes I think we attempt to split hairs or play attorney for the purpose of justifying our own sinful behavior. You may be right and I may be wrong but as I read the whole of Scripture and how Jesus explained the spirit of the law in His sermon (Matthew 5-7), I'm convinced that we sin more often than we even realize and it reinforces our need for a savior.

Sort of like how I understand at least part of the reason for God giving Moses and the people of Israel the 10 Commandments. It wasn't only to provide a guide but also to show them how wrong they were. In other words He was basically saying, "You think you're good? Let me show you how good you really are." and then He proceeded to deliver the 10 Commandments to point out the errors they had been making.

Agreed !
But I don't play attorney.
I learned what I know from two big churches.
I don't do eisegesis. Never have.
So, do you still think I'm a thief?

JK !!

 

[LovethroughDove]

Romans 12:1-2 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world.

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Our thoughts totally matter. If we have our minds on the lust of the world, the world will eat us alive. If our minds are on the will of God, then we will do his will in the world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 12:1-2 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world.

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Our thoughts totally matter. If we have our minds on the lust of the world, the world will eat us alive. If our minds are on the will of God, then we will do his will in the world.

Doing His will and having thoughts is two different things.
So you never have unspiritual thoughts?
You must be much better than St. Teresa of Avila !!
She wrote about the 7 castles of the spiritual person.
It's good reading...

 

[LovethroughDove]

Doing His will and having thoughts is two different things.
So you never have unspiritual thoughts?
You must be much better than St. Teresa of Avila !!
She wrote about the 7 castles of the spiritual person.
It's good reading...

I know that sinful thoughts are from the devil.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I know that my unforgiveness towards my sister is not of God. I don't want it and I have to renew my mind from the fruit of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23

 

[WIP]

Agreed !
But I don't play attorney.
I learned what I know from two big churches.
I don't do eisegesis. Never have.
So, do you still think I'm a thief?

JK !!

Now you're asking me a personal question and it really doesn't matter what I think anyway, right?

 

[GodsGrace]

Now you're asking me a personal question and it really doesn't matter what I think anyway, right?

Of course it matters what you think.
I've been bumping into you on this forum for two years now, exactly, as of a few day from now.

 

[brujaq]

No WIP !!
I did not ponder it enough to weigh the consequences !!
I could afford to buy my jewelry.
It was just thoughts going through my head.
I lived in NY. Imagine leaving a whole tray of jewelry ALONE with a customer ! It's unheard of.
I just meant to explain how easy it would be.

If you ponder the consequences and do not steal it because of the consequences you're following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. You've sinned in the heart and it requires forgiveness. When we love Jesus we don't wish to disappoint Him (although we do at times).

It's kind of like going to church and not really wanting to be there ---
you could have stayed at home; same difference.

I find it a little difficult to discuss spiritual matters without writing a book - something very easy for me...

I hope you understand what I'm saying...

I never really thought about this one, I've always been glad to see others get stuff I wanted even as a kid before I ever got saved. My friend used to get good stuff all the time and I knew when he had a little time with it first I was going to get my shot at it ..

Today there is a man who has an old 58 Chevy Apache step-side truck I'd like to have, it's a piece of junk and needs a bunch of work but I've made him an offer and overdue from going back to see if he's thought about it ... My thoughts are that it's so rare and beautiful I could park it set up a sign and advertise prayer at different places for people driving by, maybe even offer and cook cheese grits or pinto beans to give away, just something cheap and good to offer with prayer or discussion, the old truck itself would draw many in to see I think ..

Does this mean I covet this truck , I could buy one allready fixed up but way more expensive than I could or would ever pay ..

 

[GodsGrace]

I know that sinful thoughts are from the devil.

If to you it is a sin,
then it is a sin.
God is merciful and forgives all that we confess to Him.
Romans 14:20-23
1 John 3:21

 

[GodsGrace]

I never really thought about this one, I've always been glad to see others get stuff I wanted even as a kid before I ever got saved. My friend used to get good stuff all the time and I knew when he had a little time with it first I was going to get my shot at it ..

Today there is a man who has an old 58 Chevy Apache step-side truck I'd like to have, it's a piece of junk and needs a bunch of work but I've made him an offer and overdue from going back to see if he's thought about it ... My thoughts are that it's so rare and beautiful I could park it set up a sign and advertise prayer at different places for people driving by, maybe even offer and cook cheese grits or pinto beans to give away, just something cheap and good to offer with prayer or discussion, the old truck itself would draw many in to see I think ..

Does this mean I covet this truck , I could buy one allready fixed up but way more expensive than I could or would ever pay ..

Let's be a little careful with coveting and/or lusting.

God made us to lust after things for a reason.
If we didn't "covet" or "lust" nothing would ever get done!

Wanting things is good. It gives us a reason to live and go forward in life.
Christians are also normal people.

We just have to be careful not to really covet or lust after something.
That would mean that we've brought it to the point of sin in our heart.

I really don't think you're wanting a l957 truck is coveting !
Do you love that truck more than you love our Lord? Probably not.
We could get a little carried away with these concepts, I think.
Jesus was tempted in every way as we are and He understands us even when we go a little overboard.

It's good to have interests. Let's just make sure God is our number 1 interest.

Do you agree?

 

[GodsGrace]

I never really thought about this one, I've always been glad to see others get stuff I wanted even as a kid before I ever got saved. My friend used to get good stuff all the time and I knew when he had a little time with it first I was going to get my shot at it ..

Today there is a man who has an old 58 Chevy Apache step-side truck I'd like to have, it's a piece of junk and needs a bunch of work but I've made him an offer and overdue from going back to see if he's thought about it ... My thoughts are that it's so rare and beautiful I could park it set up a sign and advertise prayer at different places for people driving by, maybe even offer and cook cheese grits or pinto beans to give away, just something cheap and good to offer with prayer or discussion, the old truck itself would draw many in to see I think ..

Does this mean I covet this truck , I could buy one allready fixed up but way more expensive than I could or would ever pay ..

P.S.
God made many beautiful things in this universe.
We're to enjoy what we hold to be beautiful.
If we stopped enjoying beautiful things, whatever they may be, we would whither away...
I see God in everything beautiful, in nature and in hand-made things.
God gave us the gift of appreciation for a reason.

 

[WIP]

Of course it matters what you think.
I've been bumping into you on this forum for two years now, exactly, as of a few day from now.

Maybe one has to identify whether or not the coveting is significant to the point of adding temptation that is too difficult to resist or in a worse case taking precedence over God. It does require that we each consider it with open and honest heart.