Are bad thoughts sin?

[Free]

Satan can put thoughts in our hearts as found in this verse:
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray Him,

so if satan can put thoughts in our hearts, and thoughts can be sinful, then the negative thought that satan put in Judas mind was sin. So in essence satan made Judas sin without Judas being in control of his faculties to repent.

normally if thoughts were not sin, it would just be a temptation. But since you believe thoughts to be sin, now you are faced with this problem of this verse.

There is no problem with this verse. What happens here always happens and does not in any way nullify Jesus's clear words that sinful thoughts do come from the heart. Appealing to the man chosen by God to betray Christ to his death is hardly going to strengthen your point. Yes, it does seem that Satan can put thoughts in our hearts but our flesh is sinful as well.

And as I have stated a couple of times, it's whether or not one dwells on that thought that is the issue. Judas had clearly already been tempted and was ruminating on that thought, purposing in his heart to betray Jesus. Satan tempted Judas

 

[Free]

A lot of what Christianity is comes from theology.
For instance, the Trinity and the dichotomy or trichotomy of persons is not in the bible, but it can be extrapolated from its contents.

So do you believe we have a soul?
Do you believe we have a spirit?
Do you believe we have a body?

If the answers to the above are yes, then you believe in the trichotomy of person, which is what I believe-

Scripture. Let's see:
Hebrews 4:12 the word cuts and divides the soul and spirit and body
1 Thessalonians 5:23 spriit, soul, body
1 Corinthians 15:53 the body is mortal
Daniel 7:15 D was grieved in spirit
1 Samuel 16:7
Luke 16:15

Here is a scripture regarding lust:
James 1:14-15
When the lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin...

I don't see how any of that answers my questions.

And regarding Mathew 5:27-28
"Jesus is not declaring that the amoral sex drive or curiosity is evil.
He is saying that when you decide in your heart that, if given the opportunity, you would respond to the physical and psychical drive outside the parameters of marriage, you have already [at that point and not before] committed adultery in your heart"

If I understand you correctly, that is essentially what I have been saying.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't see how any of that answers my questions.


If I understand you correctly, that is essentially what I have been saying.

Hi Free,
You were questioning me regarding the spirit realm and the soul realm.
I was showing how we're made up of body, soul and spirit.
Perhaps the word "realm" means a place to you?? If so, I misspoke. Sorry.

As to agreeing, yes, I do believe we agree.

 

[godsquadgeek]

There is no problem with this verse. What happens here always happens and does not in any way nullify Jesus's clear words that sinful thoughts do come from the heart. Appealing to the man chosen by God to betray Christ to his death is hardly going to strengthen your point. Yes, it does seem that Satan can put thoughts in our hearts but our flesh is sinful as well.

And as I have stated a couple of times, it's whether or not one dwells on that thought that is the issue. Judas had clearly already been tempted and was ruminating on that thought, purposing in his heart to betray Jesus. Satan tempted Judas

but he put it into his heart without his free will, thats the whole point. He can do that any time to any of us. If your theory is correct, then satan is directly causing us to sin, not simply tempting us which is theologically inaccurate. So to be honest you have to admit that your theory has errors. I already know my theory is not perfect.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just an aside,
Judas might have believed he was doing what Jesus WANTED him to do.
John 13:27

 

[godsquadgeek]

Just an aside,
Judas might have believed he was doing what Jesus WANTED him to do.
John 13:27

Also to point out, at this moment Jesus was commanding Satan who had possessed Judas when he ate a piece of bread.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Just an aside,
Judas might have believed he was doing what Jesus WANTED him to do.
John 13:27

Also to point out, at this moment Jesus was commanding Satan who had possessed Judas when he ate a piece of bread.

 

[Corn Pop]

What about this for example, Eve didnt sin when she was tempted by lust of the fruit, so if she knew eating from the tree was bad and she was tempted to eat it and it was pleasing to the eye, yet did not sin until it was eaten, as the commandment was don't eat it, then thoughts are not sin. The commandments are actions.

Knowledge of good and evil. If a thought is evil and you don't take action on it because you know its not good, then its not a sin.

But I think actions can include words. Like being mean and abusive to someone, lying to people, and so on, they are actions.

 

[godsquadgeek]

What about this for example, Eve didnt sin when she was tempted by lust of the fruit, so if she knew eating from the tree was bad and she was tempted to eat it and it was pleasing to the eye, yet did not sin until it was eaten, as the commandment was don't eat it, then thoughts are not sin. The commandments are actions.

Knowledge of good and evil. If a thought is evil and you don't take action on it because you know its not good, then its not a sin.

But I think actions can include words. Like being mean and abusive to someone, lying to people, and so on, they are actions.

thats a good example, but as we have stated before some words are convoluted like doubting, covetous, and desire.

 

[WIP]

What about this for example, Eve didnt sin when she was tempted by lust of the fruit, so if she knew eating from the tree was bad and she was tempted to eat it and it was pleasing to the eye, yet did not sin until it was eaten, as the commandment was don't eat it, then thoughts are not sin. The commandments are actions.

Knowledge of good and evil. If a thought is evil and you don't take action on it because you know its not good, then its not a sin.

But I think actions can include words. Like being mean and abusive to someone, lying to people, and so on, they are actions.

I believe Eve's sin goes deeper than just the eating of the fruit. I believe the real sin was pride and selfishness which led to her disobedience. Satan knew or at the very least suspected she had a propensity toward pride, covetousness, and selfishness and so he fed her with the notion that she could be "like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5 NKJV) I believe she had already sinned before she plucked the fruit from the tree.

 

[godsquadgeek]

I believe Eve's sin goes deeper than just the eating of the fruit. I believe the real sin was pride and selfishness which led to her disobedience. Satan knew or at the very least suspected she had a propensity toward pride, covetousness, and selfishness and so he fed her with the notion that she could be "like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5 NKJV) I believe she had already sinned before she plucked the fruit from the tree.

but being like God, knowing good and evil- was not evil in itself. It's just free will to know what evil is or have knowledge of it. Which is not necessarily bad. I believe it was more of knowledge than it was of trying to be God or like God. IT was that God prohibited them from eating the fruit that was bad, not that her wanting to be like God in knowing good and evil, was the evil. She was decieved. Adam was not. Adam was never deceived, some say that adam went along with it, to be with his wife. I think it was that and more selfish motives. But as far as her's being selfish, I think it was more of deception than anything. But again adam was not decieved by the serpent and knew that it was fully wrong, and did it anyway. A transgression.

 

[WIP]

but being like God, knowing good and evil- was not evil in itself. It's just free will to know what evil is or have knowledge of it. Which is not necessarily bad. I believe it was more of knowledge than it was of trying to be God or like God. IT was that God prohibited them from eating the fruit that was bad, not that her wanting to be like God in knowing good and evil, was the evil. She was decieved. Adam was not. Adam was never deceived, some say that adam went along with it, to be with his wife. I think it was that and more selfish motives. But as far as her's being selfish, I think it was more of deception than anything. But again adam was not decieved by the serpent and knew that it was fully wrong, and did it anyway. A transgression.

We don't have to dwell on this here for I guess this would be for another thread but I've never fully understood how we differentiate Eve's action as only being deceived vs Adam's action as being disobedient. I understand that Scripture does say that Eve was deceived but I still struggle with her not be disobedient just the same for she knew what God commanded.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

but being like God, knowing good and evil- was not evil in itself. It's just free will to know what evil is or have knowledge of it. Which is not necessarily bad. I believe it was more of knowledge than it was of trying to be God or like God. IT was that God prohibited them from eating the fruit that was bad, not that her wanting to be like God in knowing good and evil, was the evil. She was decieved. Adam was not. Adam was never deceived, some say that adam went along with it, to be with his wife. I think it was that and more selfish motives. But as far as her's being selfish, I think it was more of deception than anything. But again adam was not decieved by the serpent and knew that it was fully wrong, and did it anyway. A transgression.

The idea that eating the fruit gave us free will, or gave us a moral conscience, in my opinion holds no merit. The conversation between Eve and the serpent shows that She is intelligent and thinking her answers through, and her choice shows that she had free will before eating the fruit. All the fruit did was give us knowledge. And later God described mankind as always bent towards evil. The knowledge became a poison. Like the knowledge of a drug helps people seek it out and become addicted to it, so the knowledge of good and evil sounds like it brought the options of how to be evil into our minds and hearts.

Personally, I'd say it would be a good thing if I never considered hurtful words that I could be tempted to say to people I see. Or if Cain in his anger and jealousy, never even considered to kill his brother. There are still things I see people do and I wonder how they think of doing what they do. How they thought there was even an option to do it. (Then later on after the action is done more people consider it and do it as well.). The fruit was not for free will, nor about morality. It was about giving us options to do good or to do evil. Many don't even know the difference to see that what they do is wrong. So it was never a moralizing element.