Are the 144,000 Christian?

[KumiOri]

It may be helpful to understand where this word 'Jew' used so often comes from. "The word "Jew" comes from , a name that means "praised" which is derived from the shoresh (root) yadah, meaning (in the Hiphil) to give thanks, to laud, to praise. A true Jew, then, is one who lives in a praiseworthy attitude and manner according to God's standards."

I think I now understand when Paul wrote to the Romans.

"he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, and circumcision of heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God".

Before we knew Christ we were once upon a time nothing more than dead men walking and without hope.

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Think about that now, in times past we were Gentiles a.k.a. heathen, pagan, or someone other than a Jew, or in times past a Jew circumcised in the flesh, followers of the Law, but now, by the blood of Yahushua we are made one. One elect, one chosen people. Unlike today's point of view so many see two chosen (one side Jew the other Christain).

But nolonger are we divided by a partition if believe but now we are one and members of the commonwealth of Israel. And it is from the Holy Place Jerusalem, The King of kings shall reign. So as commanded we should look to the coming of our King and His Kingdom, not to the kingdoms of this world and their doctrine as they shall fall and be no more.

 

[RaymondKroft]

As far as my claim of the City of Haggai, my last name originated from it over the centuries. I'm scottish irish in case you want to know. And it seems everyone has forgotten that there is to be one last city of man that which will be built.

 

[jasoncran]

As far as my claim of the City of Haggai, my last name originated from it over the centuries. I'm scottish irish in case you want to know. And it seems everyone has forgotten that there is to be one last city of man that which will be built.

where did you get that?

i'm half celtic what does that matter to the prohecies.

 

[alphaomega]

the 144,000 are not jews
each tribes ( but dan) have 12,000 each
but the southern tribes ( the jews ) are made up of only two of the tribes
the nothern tribes make up the other 10 tribes ( these are not jews )
but only 9 of the 10 are listed in the groups who get 12,000( dan is not )
the tribe of levi is added back into this group and gets thier 12,000
so ; the southern tribes ( 2 x 12,000 )
the northern tribes ( 9 x 12,000 )
and the tribe of levi ( 1 x 12,000)
= ing 12 x 12,000 or 144,000

when we hear of the tribes of israel ; there are 3 lists

1) genesis ; the 12 sons of jacob

2) exodus ;
------------------------levi is taken out -----------( -1)
------------------------joseph is taken out--------( -1)
----- josephs two sons are added in ------------ (+ 2)

so the names have changed ; but the number is still 12

3) revelation ;
--------------------------------- dan is removed ( -1) * for not sending any of their tribe to be in a war
--------------------------- levi is added back in ( +1)
the name joseph is substituted for the name ephriam ; there is no change in the count ; for this is just a different name for the same people

now are they christian > ?
* they are male
* they are young ( for they have not been with a women )
* they are not in the same country
* each of the northern tribes ;
-------------- walked away with attributes to who they would be in their new countries
-------------- these are called the lost tribes
---------------people who study this will tell you one of these would be england and one the usa

my point is not to give you a yes or no opinion on this ; but to explain a point
if what is stated about england and the usa is true ;
then ; from the usa there would be only 12,000
and from england there would only be 12, 000

if the jw; believes themselves to be the 144,000
then it would have to be like this
all would be male only;
never been with a women
______ and -----------------
only 12,000 could come from the usa
only 12, 000 could come from england --- etc; etc

back to are they christian ?
they will be saved
and only christians will be saved ; so i would say yes

 

[lecoop]

the 144,000 are not jews
each tribes ( but dan) have 12,000 each
but the southern tribes ( the jews ) are made up of only two of the tribes
the nothern tribes make up the other 10 tribes ( these are not jews )
but only 9 of the 10 are listed in the groups who get 12,000( dan is not )
the tribe of levi is added back into this group and gets thier 12,000
so ; the southern tribes ( 2 x 12,000 )
the northern tribes ( 9 x 12,000 )
and the tribe of levi ( 1 x 12,000)
= ing 12 x 12,000 or 144,000

when we hear of the tribes of israel ; there are 3 lists

1) genesis ; the 12 sons of jacob

2) exodus ;
------------------------levi is taken out -----------( -1)
------------------------joseph is taken out--------( -1)
----- josephs two sons are added in ------------ (+ 2)

so the names have changed ; but the number is still 12

3) revelation ;
--------------------------------- dan is removed ( -1) * for not sending any of their tribe to be in a war
--------------------------- levi is added back in ( +1)
the name joseph is substituted for the name ephriam ; there is no change in the count ; for this is just a different name for the same people

now are they christian > ?
* they are male
* they are young ( for they have not been with a women )
* they are not in the same country
* each of the northern tribes ;
-------------- walked away with attributes to who they would be in their new countries
-------------- these are called the lost tribes
---------------people who study this will tell you one of these would be england and one the usa

my point is not to give you a yes or no opinion on this ; but to explain a point
if what is stated about england and the usa is true ;
then ; from the usa there would be only 12,000
and from england there would only be 12, 000

if the jw; believes themselves to be the 144,000
then it would have to be like this
all would be male only;
never been with a women
______ and -----------------
only 12,000 could come from the usa
only 12, 000 could come from england --- etc; etc

back to are they christian ?
they will be saved
and only christians will be saved ; so i would say yes

Sorry, but "Jew" became the title for people of any tribe:

Speaking of Paul, of the tribe of Benjemin.

Acts 19:34
But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.


And Paul calls Himself a Jew:

Acts 21:39
But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Coop

 

[archangel_300]

I would agree with those who have alluded to the 144K being body of Christ.

Revelation 14: Then I looked, and behold, a[a] Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Look at where they stand... Mount Zion.
In the book of Hebrews, Mount Zion is coupled with all these other descriptions as well as...

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Galatians 4:26
but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

There is the "Jerusalem below" consisting of the nation of Israel as well as those who are in bondage to the law. And then there is the "heavenly Jerusalem" which represents those who have been saved under the new covenent of promise through Jesus Christ. So the description in Revelation suggests that these 144K are all standing on the new covenant of promise as well.

Revelation 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

James 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Notice In Revelation 7 that the 144K are sealed... what are they sealed with?

Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

So now the big question is... is this a reference to the remnant of Israel or the entire completed body of Christ?

I lean toward the entire completed body of Christ. And the reason why is because of the four angels:

Revelation 7:1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.†4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four

If this was pointing to the remnant of Israel then it doesn't seem to fit because these verses seem to suggest that the four angels have the power to destroy the world or hurt the world in a particular fashion. These angels cannot harm the earth until ALL of the 144K have been sealed.

If this is pointing to the completed body of Christ it seems to make more sense.
The destruction of this world cannot come until all the body of Christ has been completed and God's plan of salvation has been finished. Once all of God's people have been sealed with the Holy Spirit then really all is fair game and anything can happen.

 

[archangel_300]

To add onto my previous post...
I also suspect that the new song the 144K sing is the song of salvation.

Revelation 14:3
They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“ You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[d] kings[e] and priests to our God;
And we[f] shall reign on the earth.â€

 

[alphaomega]

the 144,000 are not jews
each tribes ( but dan) have 12,000 each
but the southern tribes ( the jews ) are made up of only two of the tribes
the nothern tribes make up the other 10 tribes ( these are not jews )
but only 9 of the 10 are listed in the groups who get 12,000( dan is not )
the tribe of levi is added back into this group and gets thier 12,000
so ; the southern tribes ( 2 x 12,000 )
the northern tribes ( 9 x 12,000 )
and the tribe of levi ( 1 x 12,000)
= ing 12 x 12,000 or 144,000

when we hear of the tribes of israel ; there are 3 lists

1) genesis ; the 12 sons of jacob

2) exodus ;
------------------------levi is taken out -----------( -1)
------------------------joseph is taken out--------( -1)
----- josephs two sons are added in ------------ (+ 2)

so the names have changed ; but the number is still 12

3) revelation ;
--------------------------------- dan is removed ( -1) * for not sending any of their tribe to be in a war
--------------------------- levi is added back in ( +1)
the name joseph is substituted for the name ephriam ; there is no change in the count ; for this is just a different name for the same people

now are they christian > ?
* they are male
* they are young ( for they have not been with a women )
* they are not in the same country
* each of the northern tribes ;
-------------- walked away with attributes to who they would be in their new countries
-------------- these are called the lost tribes
---------------people who study this will tell you one of these would be england and one the usa

my point is not to give you a yes or no opinion on this ; but to explain a point
if what is stated about england and the usa is true ;
then ; from the usa there would be only 12,000
and from england there would only be 12, 000

if the jw; believes themselves to be the 144,000
then it would have to be like this
all would be male only;
never been with a women
______ and -----------------
only 12,000 could come from the usa
only 12, 000 could come from england --- etc; etc

back to are they christian ?
they will be saved
and only christians will be saved ; so i would say yes

Sorry, but "Jew" became the title for people of any tribe:

Speaking of Paul, of the tribe of Benjemin.
yes; benjamin is of the southern tribes "the jews" are from the tribes of judah and benjamin



And Paul calls Himself a Jew:

as would anyone from the tribe of benjamin

Coop

the further application of this is seen in the parable of the widow and 2 coins

god married two sisters ;both where unfaithful
god divorced one ~* ; the northern tribes ; those with the kings of israel
------------------------------------making their children fatherless---> "ORPHANS"
god kept the other~*; the southern tribes ; those with the kings of judah
--------------------------and with the death of jesus ; the marriage is over
------------------------------------------------- making this other wife a "WIDOW"
---------------------------------------she is the widow who stayed by the temple
---------------------------------------------the widow in the parable are the jews
------------------- the 2 coins are judah and the one tribe god left to solomon
-----------------------------------------when he torn 10 tribes away from his line
----------------------------------------the reason he left benjamin as that tribe?
---------------------------------could it be that it was judah ; in front of joseph
-------------------------------------------who offered himself instead benjamin ?

* THIS IS WHY ; NOT ALL THE TRIBES ARE JEWS
* THE TRIBES THAT ARE JEWISH ARE JUDAH AND BENJAMIN