Bible Study Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

[for_his_glory]

Actually, I believe the laws weren't added. They were explained because we were too stubborn and needed it spelled out so we'd quit acting like attorneys by arguing semantics.

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

 

[WIP]

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Until the fall, these laws were not required to be spelled out. There was only one law, not to eat from the tree in the midst of the garden. Once that law was violated, we knew the difference between wrong and right and yet we would not adhere to what is right so God decided that we needed to be reminded in no uncertain terms. But despite that, we continue to violate them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Until the fall, these laws were not required to be spelled out. There was only one law, not to eat from the tree in the midst of the garden. Once that law was violated, we knew the difference between wrong and right and yet we would not adhere to what is right so God decided that we needed to be reminded in no uncertain terms. But despite that, we continue to violate them.

I agree as there was no necessity of any other laws other then God telling Adam to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It was only after the fall as the generations started to grow and sinned against God that He started establishing other commands to bring them into obedience. Of course we know how bad all had failed Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

So it’s impossible for someone outside of western/Christianized culture to be a Christian? I mean if someone goes to a lost tribe in the Amazon and explains sin and Christ those people can’t come to faith unless they get on board with the law?

Hi B, I've been reading the comments here and it's interesting.

I don't understand your position really well,,,I'd say that those in the lost tribe in the Amazon that desire to be disciples of Christ WILL WANT to obey the moral law. I trust you meant ONLY the moral law, which is the 10 commandments - which Jesus chiseled down to two.

Coming to faith means coming to believe in the saving grace of Jesus.
And usually, this will include following His commandments. Or, at least, to the best of our ability.

Maybe you're saying we cannot follow them perfectly...

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Hi B, I've been reading the comments here and it's interesting.

I don't understand your position really well,,,I'd say that those in the lost tribe in the Amazon that desire to be disciples of Christ WILL WANT to obey the moral law. I trust you meant ONLY the moral law, which is the 10 commandments - which Jesus chiseled down to two.

Coming to faith means coming to believe in the saving grace of Jesus.
And usually, this will include following His commandments. Or, at least, to the best of our ability.

Maybe you're saying we cannot follow them perfectly...

I agree as following them perfectly would be nearly impossible.

 

[Bull of the Woods]

Hi B, I've been reading the comments here and it's interesting.

I don't understand your position really well,,,I'd say that those in the lost tribe in the Amazon that desire to be disciples of Christ WILL WANT to obey the moral law. I trust you meant ONLY the moral law, which is the 10 commandments - which Jesus chiseled down to two.

Coming to faith means coming to believe in the saving grace of Jesus.
And usually, this will include following His commandments. Or, at least, to the best of our ability.

Maybe you're saying we cannot follow them perfectly...

I said somewhere in the thread we can’t follow them perfectly. To which I think scripture says if you fail in one you have as good as failed in them all.
My point with the Amazonian people was to point out that not all people have any knowledge of the written commandments. But they can come to faith without knowing even of their existence.
Also many gentile believers seem to ignore that the commandments were given to the Jews. We in America think of ourselves as a new chosen nation following in a near identical way of Israel.
We can get a bit into confusing the nation Israel and the Church as far as how the two relate to specific scriptures.
In my opinion. I wrote that quickly and may have to owe up to not expressing that quite the way I would want later on.

 

[Randy]

I see what you're saying. God trusted us to use our common sense about things but when that failed He figured that He better just go ahead and write the laws down for us to follow instead. And when that failed He just sent His Son into the world to die for us because He knew that there wasn't any other way that we could be reconciled with Him.








Actually I think that keeping the Sabbath means to set aside some time for God any day and every day. Which honestly, I don't always do.

I am sanctified by faith in Jesus. Its clear we are not free to continue to sin. To violate those (shall not's) that Jesus spoke of would be considered sin.

Keeping the Sabbath in regard to the written law was a absence of work. A day of rest. There were no labor laws in ancient times and I doubt the people would have been given a day off apart from Gods command. I can see how the sabbath was for mans benefit.

Some see keeping the sabbath as attending worship service once a week, which is encouraged, but is not Gods command as written in the law -A day of rest.

 

[JLB]

There was only one law

In Hebrew thought there is one law, or one commandment.


Whether in the garden or as it is today, Jesus Christ is the tree of Life.

We are to only partake of Him, which is to say, obey Him.

This is summed up in the one commandment-

You shall love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength.


This is the Commandment: Love God with all...


Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:7



All other commandments, or ordinances, statutes or laws, flow from this Commandment.


“Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, Deuteronomy 6:1


“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Deuteronomy 6:4


Obeying the Lord to love our neighbor as ourself is How we obey this commandment to love God...


Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 1 John 2:8-9


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:40



JLB

 

[JLB]

Some see keeping the sabbath as attending worship service once a week, which is encouraged, but is not Gods command as written in the law -A day of rest.

Amen.




JLB

 

[daninthelionsden]

In Hebrew thought there is one law, or one commandment.


Whether in the garden or as it is today, Jesus Christ is the tree of Life.

We are to only partake of Him, which is to say, obey Him.

This is summed up in the one commandment-

You shall love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength.


This is the Commandment: Love God with all...


Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:7



All other commandments, or ordinances, statutes or laws, flow from this Commandment.


“Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, Deuteronomy 6:1


“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Deuteronomy 6:4


Obeying the Lord to love our neighbor as ourself is How we obey this commandment to love God...


Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 1 John 2:8-9


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:40



JLB

And yet, we have the Word among us and a tribe in the Amazon may not and so many Christians fail to love others as themselves. I don't no how many times I've heard someone say "I love with unconditional love." and yet the evidence makes their statement untrue. Words are easy and can be thrown about like couch pillows.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree as following them perfectly would be nearly impossible.

I agree fully, and this is confirmed by John in 1 John 1.
I have to say that I believe most Christians know this and do their best...but I also know some that use this as an excuse to not worry too much about sinning.

Not that we should sit around all day worrying about sinning....I think the desire not to sin just becomes a part of life without too much thought being given to it.

 

[GodsGrace]

And yet, we have the Word among us and a tribe in the Amazon may not and so many Christians fail to love others as themselves. I don't no how many times I've heard someone say "I love with unconditional love." and yet the evidence makes their statement untrue. Words are easy and can be thrown about like couch pillows.

Agreed.

Also, I'll say that I don't think there IS such a thing as unconditional love. God loves all His creatures since He created them...but if we want to get to heaven, there ARE conditions. One is to be born again of the spirit and another is to obey God.

We love our spouse, but are we willing to put up with ANYTHING they do? I doubt it. So love is NOT unconditional but does have conditions attached to it.

I don't see this as a bad things...it keeps us honest.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Agreed.

Also, I'll say that I don't think there IS such a thing as unconditional love. God loves all His creatures since He created them...but if we want to get to heaven, there ARE conditions. One is to be born again of the spirit and another is to obey God.

We love our spouse, but are we willing to put up with ANYTHING they do? I doubt it. So love is NOT unconditional but does have conditions attached to it.

I don't see this as a bad things...it keeps us honest.

Exactly

 

[JLB]

And yet, we have the Word among us and a tribe in the Amazon may not and so many Christians fail to love others as themselves. I don't no how many times I've heard someone say "I love with unconditional love." and yet the evidence makes their statement untrue. Words are easy and can be thrown about like couch pillows.

I would be at the top of the list, of those who do not love the way He intends for us to love, and yet I know I have come light years in progressing to love people and love God, since I first began.


I’m so glad I have a Savior that will forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness, (when I repent), and keep working with me to mature and progress in these things.


Jesus said it this way -

I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. Revelation 2:2-6




JLB

 

[daninthelionsden]

I would be at the top of the list, of those who d not love the way He intends for us to love, and yet I know I have come light years in progressing to love people and love God, since I first began.


I’m so glad I have a Savior that will forgive me and cleanse me of all unrighteousness, (when I repent), and keep working with me to mature and progress in these things.


Jesus said it this way -

I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. Revelation 2:2-6




JLB

Absolutely. Does our heart leap for joy at the revelation of truth? No matter where it leads?
Does our heart leap for joy at the when justice prevails? Even if it prevails against us?
Does our heart leap for joy when love conquers?
When sickness healed? Even if it's not us who are healed?
When patience and understanding win out over the emotions of the moment?
When the refusal to take part in what we know to be sin? What we suspect may be sin?
If we look into our heart and see these things, we should know our heart knows the things of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree as following them perfectly would be nearly impossible.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

What is so hard about following these ten that we are speaking of.

 

[Bull of the Woods]

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

What is so hard about following these ten that we are speaking of.

You’re kidding right?

 

[for_his_glory]

I said somewhere in the thread we can’t follow them perfectly. To which I think scripture says if you fail in one you have as good as failed in them all.
My point with the Amazonian people was to point out that not all people have any knowledge of the written commandments. But they can come to faith without knowing even of their existence.
Also many gentile believers seem to ignore that the commandments were given to the Jews. We in America think of ourselves as a new chosen nation following in a near identical way of Israel.
We can get a bit into confusing the nation Israel and the Church as far as how the two relate to specific scriptures.
In my opinion. I wrote that quickly and may have to owe up to not expressing that quite the way I would want later on.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There are laws specific for the Jews before Christ and then the moral parts of the 613 laws that are for both Jew and Gentiles that together make up the body of Christ, Galatians 3:28, 29.

 

[for_his_glory]

You’re kidding right?

Why would I kid about keeping these ten? Are they that hard to follow?

 

[Bull of the Woods]

In Matthew, pretty early on, Jesus makes the series of statements starting with “You have heard it said”, and saying something about various requirements like not committing adultery. He continues with “but I say” and goes on with “if you just look at a woman with lust” you have broken the commandment.
He isn’t saying these things to help you more successfully manage your way through the commandments.
He’s telling the listeners they have boiled down the commandments into something they think they can keep.
They, me, and you can’t.