Bible Study Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

[Edward]

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

What is so hard about following these ten that we are speaking of.

In my mind, this is just a place to start. If we pay attention to scripture, it tells us all over the place...do this, don't do that, think on these things, don't think about those things, commit to the Lord, do His work, walk in the spirit, pick up our cross daily, and all that sort of thing. Christianity isn't just get saved & baptized and then go to church once a week and live life as before and wait upon the Lord...it's so much more than that.

Many times people will say that I am speaking of a works based salvation and this is not so. Those people who do as little as possible will still be saved, but others who actually practiced doing good works for people to help them, will have a greater reward in heaven and they also allow God to do more of His work upon the earth, through them, because they were willing. Psalm 37 spells a lot of it out pretty good...

here is just the first part, but the whole chapter is about us doing the Lord's will if you read it right...

37 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

4 Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.../

Trust and do good...Delight thyself in the Lord...and commit thy way unto the Lord...

commit my way unto the Lord? You mean like, everyday? Like not make my own decisions in the world?! Yes. What do you want to do today Lord? What's on your heart today Lord?!

I remember many times, driving towards work in the morning, having invited the Lord to come with me...and asking Him as I drove...what do you want to do today Lord? Do I go to work, or are we going somewhere else? (Fully willing to veer off to somewhere else if the Lord said to...but He didn't, lol!) Every day, moment by moment should be led by our Lord. Then the Law means nothing because we're led by the Spirit.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Agreed.

Also, I'll say that I don't think there IS such a thing as unconditional love. God loves all His creatures since He created them...but if we want to get to heaven, there ARE conditions. One is to be born again of the spirit and another is to obey God.

We love our spouse, but are we willing to put up with ANYTHING they do? I doubt it. So love is NOT unconditional but does have conditions attached to it.

I don't see this as a bad things...it keeps us honest.

I would say that I love my fiancée and family as well as the Lord unconditionally. Sure they all have certain things about them that I might not like or understand, but I still love them regardless of their (with the exception of God since He's perfect but I still get angry at Him sometimes.) flaws. And yes I really hate to admit it but a lot of the time the Lord gets placed underneath my fiancée along with my family and friends even though He shouldn't. I'm just being perfectly honest here.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

What is so hard about following these ten that we are speaking of.

It shouldn't be that hard to follow but how many times in our life do we find ourselves putting somebody or something before the Lord? (As I just pointed out.) How many times in your childhood did you disobey your parents or fought with them? Did you ever tell a lie? It's a lot harder than you think. Except it isn't hard for Jesus because He's sinless.

Why would I kid about keeping these ten? Are they that hard to follow?

I do believe that I just answered that above.

 

[JLB]

It shouldn't be that hard to follow but how many times in our life do we find ourselves putting somebody or something before the Lord?

Please consider this scripture and what John is saying, as we work together to find the balance to these things.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


First we must learn to love the people in our lives, before we can hope to Love God, whom we can not see.



It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them.
Ecclesiastes 7:18 NASB


Finding the balance of loving God and loving those in our life is one of life’s greatest treasures.


Don’t beat yourself up, if you haven’t discovered it yet.




JLB

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus is the 10 commandments. It was his character and being, as he said he come to fulfill it and it is finished because it was him. Jesus is the Law. The Law of God (10 commandments) is just a personality. No one can fulfill it because no one is God's personality.

If any King writes the laws for there kingdom it's there personality, there character, there being that is the law. A King who likes cats for example is not going to say "thou shall not have a pet cat".

 

[GodsGrace]

I am sanctified by faith in Jesus. Its clear we are not free to continue to sin. To violate those (shall not's) that Jesus spoke of would be considered sin.

Keeping the Sabbath in regard to the written law was a absence of work. A day of rest. There were no labor laws in ancient times and I doubt the people would have been given a day off apart from Gods command. I can see how the sabbath was for mans benefit.

Some see keeping the sabbath as attending worship service once a week, which is encouraged, but is not Gods command as written in the law -A day of rest.

Hi R,
I agree with all you've said except I see one statement that cannot be right.

You "I am sanctified by faith in Jesus". We are sanctified not only by our faith in Jesus but also by our own actions. We are justified purely and only by our faith through God's grace as in Ephesians 2:8.

Our sanctification, which means being set apart for service to God, does require our part...God does not do this part by Himself but needs us to obey Him and do what He would want us to do in His Kingdom here on earth.

We could say it's a combined effort...we cannot do this without the help of God, but if we do not do our part...our being set apart for service to God becomes useless.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Jesus is the 10 commandments. It was his character and being, as he said he come to fulfill it and it is finished because it was him. Jesus is the Law. The Law of God (10 commandments) is just a personality. No one can fulfill it because no one is God's personality.

If any King writes the laws for there kingdom it's there personality, there character, there being that is the law. A King who likes cats for example is not going to say "thou shall not have a pet cat".

And I definitely wouldn't want to live in that kingdom because I love cats and have a cat.

 

[Randy]

Hi R,
I agree with all you've said except I see one statement that cannot be right.

You "I am sanctified by faith in Jesus". We are sanctified not only by our faith in Jesus but also by our own actions. We are justified purely and only by our faith through God's grace as in Ephesians 2:8.

Our sanctification, which means being set apart for service to God, does require our part...God does not do this part by Himself but needs us to obey Him and do what He would want us to do in His Kingdom here on earth.

We could say it's a combined effort...we cannot do this without the help of God, but if we do not do our part...our being set apart for service to God becomes useless.

Depends what you mean by actions.
We did this before.
Jesus to Paul
....to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

 

[JLB]

Depends what you mean by actions.
We did this before.
Jesus to Paul
....to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:17-20


This passage refers to initial salvation.


Key Passages:

• in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

• to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

In our initial salvation we are cleansed and made holy (sanctified).



JLB

 

[JLB]

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

Yes, by faith means God spoke and someone obeyed.


It is the action of obedience that causes faith to “come alive” or be activated to produce the intended divine result.

He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

Again this passage refers to initial salvation.


There is the ongoing process of sanctification that requires our deliberate active participation.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


again



But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I said somewhere in the thread we can’t follow them perfectly. To which I think scripture says if you fail in one you have as good as failed in them all.

For God if we fail in one commandment, we've failed. But James 2:8-11 says even more than this...

8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

"For He who said do not commit adultery also said Do Not Commit Murder".

IOW, we cannot decide that we will not murder anyone, but it will be OK to commit adultery --- God made both commandments to be followed - it's not up to us to decide which commandment we wish to follow and which commandment we will ignore....our attention must be to all of God's laws.

In James 2, James is specifically speaking about the Royal Law which says that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves...Do unto others...

Whether we commit murder or adultery...we will still be judged as a law breaker.

My point with the Amazonian people was to point out that not all people have any knowledge of the written commandments. But they can come to faith without knowing even of their existence.

Agreed, as Romans 1:19-20 points out.
God has always revealed Himself...even where the written word does not even exist.

Also many gentile believers seem to ignore that the commandments were given to the Jews. We in America think of ourselves as a new chosen nation following in a near identical way of Israel.
We can get a bit into confusing the nation Israel and the Church as far as how the two relate to specific scriptures.
In my opinion. I wrote that quickly and may have to owe up to not expressing that quite the way I would want later on.

I'd have to agree that the N.T. does not teach keeping the entire law as is taught in the O.T. Indeed Jesus is our Law and our safety is in Him.

There is some teaching by Jesus as to nations being judged...corporate salvation as compared to individual salvation. This is spoken of somewhat in Mathew 24 and specifically in Matthew 25, although I don't really understand this very well.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say that I love my fiancée and family as well as the Lord unconditionally. Sure they all have certain things about them that I might not like or understand, but I still love them regardless of their (with the exception of God since He's perfect but I still get angry at Him sometimes.) flaws. And yes I really hate to admit it but a lot of the time the Lord gets placed underneath my fiancée along with my family and friends even though He shouldn't. I'm just being perfectly honest here.

Hey H,

Of course we accept our loved ones even with their faults.
Because someone has a fault does not make them unloveable...we all have faults and no one is perfect. If we waited for perfection, we'd love no one!

However, a loved one could do such big harm to us, and even more than once, that eventually it would become impossible to continue loving them.

You could thank God you haven't experienced this and I'm thankful that neither have I -- however, I do know persons whose lives have been shattered and their love for someone has totally disappeared.

We each have some line in the sand that, if crossed, would make our love for that person impossible. And THIS would be a condition to our love.

It's very different than loving someone with their faults...this is normal.

 

[for_his_glory]

I would say that I love my fiancée and family as well as the Lord unconditionally. Sure they all have certain things about them that I might not like or understand, but I still love them regardless of their (with the exception of God since He's perfect but I still get angry at Him sometimes.) flaws. And yes I really hate to admit it but a lot of the time the Lord gets placed underneath my fiancée along with my family and friends even though He shouldn't. I'm just being perfectly honest here.







It shouldn't be that hard to follow but how many times in our life do we find ourselves putting somebody or something before the Lord? (As I just pointed out.) How many times in your childhood did you disobey your parents or fought with them? Did you ever tell a lie? It's a lot harder than you think. Except it isn't hard for Jesus because He's sinless.






I do believe that I just answered that above.

At my age I have learned to put God first above everything here on earth. After all He is my redeeming grace, my joy and my sense of reality in my life and I live for him and what He wants for me to do. In my youth, not so much and now I can look back on all those wasted years that I could have been serving Him as witnessing Christ to others.

 

[Randy]

Yes, by faith means God spoke and someone obeyed.


It is the action of obedience that causes faith to “come alive” or be activated to produce the intended divine result.





Again this passage refers to initial salvation.


There is the ongoing process of sanctification that requires our deliberate active participation.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


again



But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21




JLB

I am sanctified by my faith in Jesus - that is truth not error. The washing of rebirth is received by faith and is a act of God. That is what cleanses our hearts. As I stated we are not free to sin. Most of the 10 commandments are (shall-nots)
If one loves as Jesus loves then they will fulfill the law. They won't be stealing, murdering, lying in court against another, having relations with another's spouse etc...

Everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Therefore everyone is a slave to sin unless the "Son" sets them free.

My sanctification is from above. My obedience keeps me in the Lords love. I am not sanctified in that rather I remain sanctified.

I am sanctified by my faith in Jesus - there is no other way.

 

[JLB]

I am sanctified by my faith in Jesus - that is truth not error.

Ok.



Could you help me to understand what you mean by “your faith” in Jesus?



JLB

 

[JLB]

The washing of rebirth is received by faith and is a act of God.

Do we play any part in this “washing of rebirth” or is it God just choosing who He decides to save, and acting independently apart from man’s will?



JLB

 

[JLB]

As I stated we are not free to sin. Most of the 10 commandments are (shall-nots)
If one loves as Jesus loves then they will fulfill the law.

How do we “fulfill the law” ?




JLB

 

[JLB]

They won't be stealing, murdering, lying in court against another, having relations with another's spouse etc...

The definition of love for God and love for our neighbor is keeping His commandments.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



JLB

 

[JLB]

I am sanctified by my faith in Jesus - there is no other way.

Let’s define and understand what this word sanctified means.


I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:17-18


Sanctified - Strongs G 37 - hagiazō

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   1. consecrate things to God
   2. dedicate people to God
3. to purify
   1. to cleanse externally
   2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
   3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Do you believe this is a one time event, or that it is something we need to continue to seek to do?


Here is how we are initially cleansed and made pure or holy.

This is what occurs when we are born again.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

This is when we are born again, by obeying the Gospel message of salvation.


The sanctification process, whereby we are cleansed and made holy doesn’t happen apart from a deliberate act of our obedience.



JLB

 

[Randy]

Let’s define and understand what this word sanctified means.


I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:17-18


Sanctified - Strongs G 37 - hagiazō

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   1. consecrate things to God
   2. dedicate people to God
3. to purify
   1. to cleanse externally
   2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
   3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Do you believe this is a one time event, or that it is something we need to continue to seek to do?


Here is how we are initially cleansed and made pure or holy.

This is what occurs when we are born again.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

This is when we are born again, by obeying the Gospel message of salvation.


The sanctification process, whereby we are cleansed and made holy doesn’t happen apart from a deliberate act of our obedience.



JLB

Its called faith.

If you received the gift of God, Christ in us, it was by faith.
If you have the Spirit of God in you then you are sanctified and Holy. For whatever the Spirit touches becomes Holy. Moses at the burning bush that was not consumed by the fire. -"Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."

Jesus-Remain in me and I will remain in you.
Does one who has the Spirit in them continue to sin is another matter all together. And if so when does God pull His Spirit from such a person for the only reason given was if we disown Jesus ,which to me, is highly unlikely to those He dwells in.

If you don't have the Spirit of Christ in you then you are still in your sins, not sanctified, and a slave to sin.

If you have the Spirit Christ in you then you are Holy and blameless before God and are one with Jesus. (sanctified)
God made a new covenant starting with Israel first where He would dwell in the hearts of those He calls His children. And where God dwells becomes Holy.

So we remain in Christ by obedience and even in that we are aided by the Spirit of Christ in us but we are sanctified by faith in Jesus as He is received by faith.

Truth
Jesus - to take a place among those who are sanctified by "faith" in me.
As I stated we are not free to sin.

You can add all you want such as be Holy for the Lord your God is Holy. But to me sanctification is a act of God given through Jesus by our faith in Him. Where God Himself is not only willing to draw close to unholy sinful mankind but dwell in their very hearts and making them one with Himself in that manner which was justified by the blood of Jesus. For we were baptized into Jesus's death and if we die with Him we shall also live with Him. And if we endure we shall reign with Him.

I can as you state purify myself by
make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

But I am sanctified by the Spirit of Christ in me which was received by faith in Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let’s define and understand what this word sanctified means.


I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:17-18


Sanctified - Strongs G 37 - hagiazō

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   1. consecrate things to God
   2. dedicate people to God
3. to purify
   1. to cleanse externally
   2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
   3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Do you believe this is a one time event, or that it is something we need to continue to seek to do?


Here is how we are initially cleansed and made pure or holy.

This is what occurs when we are born again.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

This is when we are born again, by obeying the Gospel message of salvation.


The sanctification process, whereby we are cleansed and made holy doesn’t happen apart from a deliberate act of our obedience.



JLB

I like this exchange between you and Randy.

I find that it's not easy to understand the difference between justification and sanctification.