Bible Study Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

[HeIsRisen2018]

We already know his answer is no, so will move past that. We are not off topic as we are discussing all the law which includes the ten commandments so the discussion will continue the way it is for now.

Let me rephrase that. I just meant that we should stay more focused on the topic and the OP's question than him and his answer.

 

[for_his_glory]

Let me rephrase that. I just meant that we should stay more focused on the topic and the OP's question than him and his answer.

We are even though Mungo is no longer participating as we are having discussions with Elihoenai. I have moved past him not answering my question as I already know his answer, so yes, we are still discussing that of the OP.

 

[Elihoenai]

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:1-4


Do you recognize Paul to be an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ?


Do you confess Jesus to be Lord; YHWH





JLB

1) Yes! Paul is an inspired Apostle of the Lord Yeshua Messiah. Although, all and sundry appear to corrupt his words because of hopeless lack of understanding or deliberate and calculated leading astray for the Devil's/Satan's Flock.


2 Peter 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


2) What does it mean to Confess? The Scripture is the only and final arbiter on what Confession means.

 

[Elihoenai]

Right...Colossians 3:23 is speaking about GOOD DEEDS AND WORKS.
By the time Colossians was written the Mosaic Law was dead and only the moral law remained.

Why do you think Christians were abolished from the synagogue?

You can believe what you will....
but you are NOT a Christian, as is understood by the Christian churches if you believe you are still under the Mosaic Law.

I will not attempt to dissuade you since I assume you're an adult person and have come to your conclusions.

You are correct, I am not a Christian in the eyes of Christian Churches. In fact we are Heretics targeted/persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church. We are very glad to be Heretics!

Have you ever practiced the Mosaic Law?


Matthew 5:11-12 King James Version (KJV)

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[Elihoenai]

Elihoenai

In post no. 149, you state the following:
Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses.

The Law of Moses encompasses all the 613 Laws.
I like to call the 10 commandments the moral law.

After Jesus' death and ascension, the Christian church began to grow rapidly. Eventually, by about 70AD the Jesus believers were no longer admitted to the synagogue and so began their own church, whereas before they met in homes and also attended the Jewish worship.

God is a moral being and has passed this morality to us in the Natural Law (not the law of nature). This would encompass the 10 commandments, or the Moral Law.

In O.T. times there were 3 types of law:
The Moral Law
The Ceremonial Law
The Civil Law

Surely you must know the difference since you're well studied in all the laws of Moses...613 of them.

These laws became burdensome and the Jews were weighed down by them. This is why Jesus that HIS yoke was EASY and HIS burden was light.
Mathew 11:28-30

This is why Jesus was angry with the Pharisees who loved to keep the Mosaic Law instead of loving God in Spirit as Jesus explained to the woman at the well.
John 4:20

It is impossible to keep the Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law today.

Yes, Elohim/God is a Moral Being, therefore, every Law that he gives is Moral.

It is impossible for the Carnal/Natural Man to keep all 613 Laws.


1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Elihoenai]

Again no yes or no to my question so I will answer for you as your answer is no. Not even you could ever possibly obey all 613 laws little less retain all 613 in your head. Not even Moses or any man that has ever lived has ever kept all of them. But, yet you say we are to keep all 613, but seem to only speak of ten of them.

Many of us have shown you in the scriptures that all 613 laws brings a curse upon us as no one can keep any of them and we have been set free of the bondage of the laws. You are making the new covenant of God's grace through Christ null and void trying to bring everyone under bondage to the parts of the 613 laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite.

The original seven laws that God first gave to Noah have been added to by God who gave them to Moses, but the ten we talk about are still alive today as they were back then as being part of the moral laws as the greatest commandment is love that is to be keep within all the moral laws that we are to be obedient to until the return of Christ.

The existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow are the laws of prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

I will leave you with what has already been written in the scriptures as it has been posted before, but you see to ignore it.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Quit trying to put others under bondage of 613 laws that has become a curse as we now live by faith in Christ and obedient to God's commands found in the moral laws.

Have you seen those so-called Seven Laws of Noah in Genesis or is that extra-Biblical teaching? The Will of Elohim/God is for us to be Sinless and Perfect.


1 John 3:4-5 King James Version (KJV)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

 

[JLB]

1) Yes! Paul is an inspired Apostle of the Lord Yeshua Messiah. Although, all and sundry appear to corrupt his words because of hopeless lack of understanding or deliberate and calculated leading astray for the Devil's/Satan's Flock.


2 Peter 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


2) What does it mean to Confess? The Scripture is the only and final arbiter on what Confession means.

To confess with our mouth, Jesus as Lord.

He is YHWH, The Lord of lords, The Lord God of Israel.

To confess Him as Lord, is to commit to obey Him as our Lord; To submit ourselves under His Lordship and Kingdom.

This is how we repent.

This is how we are transferred out of the domain of darkness into the kingdom of God.

We bend (bow) the knee to Jesus, the King of the kingdom of God, thereby submitting ourselves to obey Him as Lord.


That is the context of obeying the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.





JLB

 

[Elihoenai]

YOU were the other member.

Remember? This is why WE are discussing the washing of hands.

So if I DO NOT wash my hands any time today,,,this is a sin and must be confessed to God?

I did post the meaning of MORAL....apparently you have your own understanding.

If everything were a moral decision, I'd just stay in bed all day.
Ooops! That might be a wrong moral decision too!

Seems like, in your theology, a person is always in sin 24/7/365.

So, tell me, what is the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Certainly we aspire to 24/7/365 Theology and you will not be saved otherwise. Yeshua lived and breathed the Father continually. Do you know the Flesh and Blood of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ?


John 6:53-54 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

53 Jesus, therefore, said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves;

54 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day;

 

[for_his_glory]

1) Yes! Paul is an inspired Apostle of the Lord Yeshua Messiah. Although, all and sundry appear to corrupt his words because of hopeless lack of understanding or deliberate and calculated leading astray for the Devil's/Satan's Flock.


2 Peter 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


2) What does it mean to Confess? The Scripture is the only and final arbiter on what Confession means.

Are you saying we should not trust what Paul says as at various times he doesn't know what he is talking about as being unlearned?

 

[for_his_glory]

1) Yes! Paul is an inspired Apostle of the Lord Yeshua Messiah. Although, all and sundry appear to corrupt his words because of hopeless lack of understanding or deliberate and calculated leading astray for the Devil's/Satan's Flock.


2 Peter 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


2) What does it mean to Confess? The Scripture is the only and final arbiter on what Confession means.

Confess means to recognize you are a sinner needing God's free gift of grace by faith in Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Have you seen those so-called Seven Laws of Noah in Genesis or is that extra-Biblical teaching? The Will of Elohim/God is for us to be Sinless and Perfect.


1 John 3:4-5 King James Version (KJV)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

The seven laws are found in the Tosefta that is a compilation of the Jewish oral law from the 2nd century that is the period of Mishnah way before the Bible was compiled. We have to take some things thar are written in scripture back to its origin so no, there is no such thing as solo scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

Have you ever practiced the Mosaic Law?

I know you asked wondering this question, but I too want to answer it by saying no as if I keep all 613 laws then I make the sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe in Him by God's grace null and void. How can you make it null and void in your own life, but yet call yourself a Christians?

What is your definition of a Christian apart from any denomination or non-denomination as no church makes anyone a Christian any more than you standing in the garage makes you a car.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Will of Elohim/God is for us to be Sinless and Perfect.

So are you sinless and perfect?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I know you asked wondering this question, but I too want to answer it by saying no as if I keep all 613 laws then I make the sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe in Him by God's grace null and void. How can you make it null and void in your own life, but yet call yourself a Christians?
What is your definition of a Christian apart from any denomination or non-denomination as no church makes anyone a Christian any more than you standing in the garage makes you a car.

I realize that this question isn't for me but I still really wanted to anwiser anyways. To me being a Christian means that you realize you aren't perfect and that Jesus Christ loves you enough to have died for you and to save you and that's why you need Him as your Savior.

So are you sinless and perfect?

Again I really wanted to answer this one because unless he is Jesus Christ then he would be lying if he answered yes to this question.

 

[JLB]

Certainly we aspire to 24/7/365 Theology and you will not be saved otherwise. Yeshua lived and breathed the Father continually. Do you know the Flesh and Blood of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ?


John 6:53-54 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

53 Jesus, therefore, said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves;

54 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day;

This is language indicating the terms of a blood covenant.

A covenant meal was shared in which the bread and wine were substituted for each persons flesh and their blood.


This was to indicate to all that each person shared the other persons life, in which they had a common life and purpose together.


Much like a marriage.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

You are correct, I am not a Christian in the eyes of Christian Churches. In fact we are Heretics targeted/persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church. We are very glad to be Heretics!

Have you ever practiced the Mosaic Law?


Matthew 5:11-12 King James Version (KJV)

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I have never practiced the Mosaic Law and do not intend to.
The Mosaic Covenant is not dead as some believe....but the New Covenant drastically alters the Mosaic Covenant.
Hebrews 8:6-8
Galatians 3:15-18

One could believe this or not...it's theology, take it or leave it. It's accepted by all Christian denominations.

You like Mathew 5:11-12
Do you like John 10:10

Do you think Jesus came here to make us have a miserable life because we follow Him or is this a RESULT of prejudice?

Or do you think Jesus incarnated to show us how to live a more joyful life? Our reward may be great in heaven, but it is also great here.

Luke 6.1-49
Jesus reaped harvest on the Sabbath for which He was reprimanded. Did He sin? This is the second time I'm asking you a direct question, but you do not care to answer.

The first time was this: Jesus did not wash His hands before a meal for which He was reprimanded. Did He sin?

It looks like YOU keep the law better than Jesus does.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, Elohim/God is a Moral Being, therefore, every Law that he gives is Moral.

It is impossible for the Carnal/Natural Man to keep all 613 Laws.


1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I guess I'm a carnal man.
Oooops!
Woman.

Very not Christianly of you to tell persons (you do not even know) that they are not saved. This is not for YOU to determine but only for God.

Certainly we aspire to 24/7/365 Theology and you will not be saved otherwise. Yeshua lived and breathed the Father continually. Do you know the Flesh and Blood of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ?


John 6:53-54 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

53 Jesus, therefore, said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves;

54 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day;

You are targeted by the Catholic Church as a heretic...
and yet you say one must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, which Catholics believe to be literal in the act of transubstantiation.

 

[rstrats]

elihoenai,
re: "It is impossible for the Carnal/Natural Man to keep all 613 Laws."

Actually, it's not even possible to try to keep all 613 laws unless a person is both man and woman.

 

[Bull of the Woods]

God is no fool and does not, therefore, expect us to follow the commandments. Even Christians.
At least not successfully.

 

[JohnDB]

God is no fool and does not, therefore, expect us to follow the commandments. Even Christians.
At least not successfully.

We definitely need a Savior who can atone for our shortcomings.

amen