Bible Study Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

[GodsGrace]

Is it moral to wash your hands before eating?

It might be a good idea,,,,
but what would morality have to do with it?
NOTHING!

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Do you or any other member on this forum think it is possible to keep all 613 Laws? Racial/Ethnic Jews say it's impossible, because they don't have a Temple on Temple Mount and you have to be in the land of Israel to practice certain Laws.

For example, apart from, possibly, the Samaritans, who is practising the Passover exactly as instructed in Exodus 12? If you are Vegan, can you practice Passover?


Exodus 12:5-8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

5 a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take [it].

6 `And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;

7 and they have taken of the blood, and have put on the two side-posts, and on the lintel over the houses in which they eat it.

8 `And they have eaten the flesh in this night, roast with fire; with unleavened things and bitters they do eat it;

You're still not answering the question!

It might be a good idea,,,,
but what would morality have to do with it?
NOTHING!

Furthermore what does washing your hands have to do with this in general?

 

[for_his_glory]

Does this reply answer you question:

Bible Study - Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

Do you yourself keep all 613? To keep the Ten and the Two Commandments you must be totally obedient to the 613 Laws. If you or me fail in this total obedience we are unclean and must be made clean and are debtor to do the whole Law. This is the teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ...

christianforums.net

This answers nothing. It was a yes or no question. Why can you not be straight forward with a yes or no answer?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

This answers nothing. It was a yes or no question. Why can you not be straight forward with a yes or no answer?

I would really like to know the answer to that myself as well.

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you or any other member on this forum think it is possible to keep all 613 Laws? Racial/Ethnic Jews say it's impossible, because they don't have a Temple on Temple Mount and you have to be in the land of Israel to practice certain Laws.

For example, apart from, possibly, the Samaritans, who is practising the Passover exactly as instructed in Exodus 12? If you are Vegan, can you practice Passover?


Exodus 12:5-8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

5 a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take [it].

6 `And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;

7 and they have taken of the blood, and have put on the two side-posts, and on the lintel over the houses in which they eat it.

8 `And they have eaten the flesh in this night, roast with fire; with unleavened things and bitters they do eat it;

Why do you go all over the place instead of saying, no, I can not keep all 613, but yet you tell us we are to be obedient to all of them. The ten are not separate, but part of all 613. It's only the moral parts we are to be obedient to unless you reject Jesus and are still waiting for another Messiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

Does this reply answer you question:

Bible Study - Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

Do you yourself keep all 613? To keep the Ten and the Two Commandments you must be totally obedient to the 613 Laws. If you or me fail in this total obedience we are unclean and must be made clean and are debtor to do the whole Law. This is the teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ...

christianforums.net

Do you even know all 613 laws? If not there is a full listing of them at Judaism 101 at jewsfag.org To long a list to post in here.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is Moral to wash your hands before eating! Wash/Clean inside and outside.


Psalm 26:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 I will wash mine hands in innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O Lord:


Luke 11:37-39 King James Version (KJV)

37 And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat.

38 And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.

39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Washing of the hands is amoral.

It's only useful to eliminate germs from our hands.
It has nothing to do with our relationship to God...
None of the verses you posted show how the washing of hands is a moral decision.

I think you must be trying to keep the complete Law of Moses, all 613 of them. Not sure since you don't speak too much.

Moral has to do with our behavior: whether it is good or bad in the sense of what God has determined to be good or bad. It has to do with our pleasing Him and whether or not we sin.

Jesus did not always wash His hands.
Luke 11:38
Did Jesus sin?

Definition of moral

1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICALmoral judgments
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behaviora moral poem
c: conforming to a standard of right behaviortook a moral position on the issue though it cost him the nomination
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment

 

[GodsGrace]

You're still not answering the question!










Furthermore what does washing your hands have to do with this in general?

HIR, I brought it up because another member said that EVERY O.T. law in the Torah was a moral law.

So I asked if he thought washing hands was moral.
Which, of course, it cannot be...UNLESS a doctor operated on someone with dirty hands, of course.

The washing of hands is not a moral choice that has to be made.
It's just a smart thing to do.

 

[Elihoenai]

Why do you go all over the place instead of saying, no, I can not keep all 613, but yet you tell us we are to be obedient to all of them. The ten are not separate, but part of all 613. It's only the moral parts we are to be obedient to unless you reject Jesus and are still waiting for another Messiah.

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses. Uncircumcised Male Gentiles must be be Circumcised as Yeshua/Jesus was Circumcised. Circumcision is a requirement for Passover and you are banned from and unable to keep this and other festivals until the procedure is done.


Luke 2:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.


Prevalence of circumcision

The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom,[1] to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,[2][3][4] to over 90% in many Muslim-majority countries.

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

Do you even know all 613 laws? If not there is a full listing of them at Judaism 101 at jewsfag.org To long a list to post in here.

The link to info much appreciated.

 

[Elihoenai]

Washing of the hands is amoral.

It's only useful to eliminate germs from our hands.
It has nothing to do with our relationship to God...
None of the verses you posted show how the washing of hands is a moral decision.

I think you must be trying to keep the complete Law of Moses, all 613 of them. Not sure since you don't speak too much.

Moral has to do with our behavior: whether it is good or bad in the sense of what God has determined to be good or bad. It has to do with our pleasing Him and whether or not we sin.

Jesus did not always wash His hands.
Luke 11:38
Did Jesus sin?

Definition of moral

1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICALmoral judgments
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behaviora moral poem
c: conforming to a standard of right behaviortook a moral position on the issue though it cost him the nomination
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment

The view of a Moral person according to Elohim/God, is that every act is Moral.

Biblical definition of Moral:

Bible Study - Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

LOL If no one understands your reply.... what good does it do?? Conversation includes understanding each other.... Welcome to the forum. Thank you. Proverbs 4:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 4 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. 2 For I give you...

christianforums.net

Colossians 3:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

 

[Elihoenai]

HIR, I brought it up because another member said that EVERY O.T. law in the Torah was a moral law.

So I asked if he thought washing hands was moral.
Which, of course, it cannot be...UNLESS a doctor operated on someone with dirty hands, of course.

The washing of hands is not a moral choice that has to be made.
It's just a smart thing to do.

Amen! Every Torah Law/Law of Moses is Moral Law. Do you have the link to this other member's post?

 

[JLB]

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses. Uncircumcised Male Gentiles must be be Circumcised as Yeshua/Jesus was Circumcised. Circumcision is a requirement for Passover and you are banned from and unable to keep this and other festivals until the procedure is done.


Luke 2:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.


Prevalence of circumcision

The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom,[1] to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,[2][3][4] to over 90% in many Muslim-majority countries.

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses. Uncircumcised Male Gentiles must be be Circumcised as Yeshua/Jesus was Circumcised. Circumcision is a requirement for Passover and you are banned from and unable to keep this and other festivals until the procedure is done.


Luke 2:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.


Prevalence of circumcision

The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom,[1] to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,[2][3][4] to over 90% in many Muslim-majority countries.

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:1-4


Do you recognize Paul to be an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ?


Do you confess Jesus to be Lord; YHWH





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

The view of a Moral person according to Elohim/God, is that every act is Moral.

Biblical definition of Moral:

Bible Study - Are the Ten Commandments valid for Christians today?

LOL If no one understands your reply.... what good does it do?? Conversation includes understanding each other.... Welcome to the forum. Thank you. Proverbs 4:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 4 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. 2 For I give you...

christianforums.net

Colossians 3:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Right...Colossians 3:23 is speaking about GOOD DEEDS AND WORKS.
By the time Colossians was written the Mosaic Law was dead and only the moral law remained.

Why do you think Christians were abolished from the synagogue?

You can believe what you will....
but you are NOT a Christian, as is understood by the Christian churches if you believe you are still under the Mosaic Law.

I will not attempt to dissuade you since I assume you're an adult person and have come to your conclusions.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen! Every Torah Law/Law of Moses is Moral Law. Do you have the link to this other member's post?

YOU were the other member.

Remember? This is why WE are discussing the washing of hands.

So if I DO NOT wash my hands any time today,,,this is a sin and must be confessed to God?

I did post the meaning of MORAL....apparently you have your own understanding.

If everything were a moral decision, I'd just stay in bed all day.
Ooops! That might be a wrong moral decision too!

Seems like, in your theology, a person is always in sin 24/7/365.

So, tell me, what is the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

 

[GodsGrace]

Elihoenai

In post no. 149, you state the following:
Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses.

The Law of Moses encompasses all the 613 Laws.
I like to call the 10 commandments the moral law.

After Jesus' death and ascension, the Christian church began to grow rapidly. Eventually, by about 70AD the Jesus believers were no longer admitted to the synagogue and so began their own church, whereas before they met in homes and also attended the Jewish worship.

God is a moral being and has passed this morality to us in the Natural Law (not the law of nature). This would encompass the 10 commandments, or the Moral Law.

In O.T. times there were 3 types of law:
The Moral Law
The Ceremonial Law
The Civil Law

Surely you must know the difference since you're well studied in all the laws of Moses...613 of them.

These laws became burdensome and the Jews were weighed down by them. This is why Jesus that HIS yoke was EASY and HIS burden was light.
Mathew 11:28-30

This is why Jesus was angry with the Pharisees who loved to keep the Mosaic Law instead of loving God in Spirit as Jesus explained to the woman at the well.
John 4:20

It is impossible to keep the Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law today.

 

[for_his_glory]

YOU were the other member.

Elihoenai was talking about the link I provided for the listing of the 613 laws at Judahism101 jewfag.org

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

If I can just say something really quick before this carries on any further,.. either Elihoenai is going to explain himself and say whether or not he follows all 613 rules or he will not. It sort of looks like its the latter at the moment, so as not to waste anymore breath we should probably get back to the OP topic because this is starting to get old and really ridiculous. (On his part.) That is unless he finally decides to give an answer. However for the time being, I think we should all just move on.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, the Ten Commandments are the Law of Moses. Uncircumcised Male Gentiles must be be Circumcised as Yeshua/Jesus was Circumcised. Circumcision is a requirement for Passover and you are banned from and unable to keep this and other festivals until the procedure is done.


Luke 2:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.


Prevalence of circumcision

The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom,[1] to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,[2][3][4] to over 90% in many Muslim-majority countries.

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again no yes or no to my question so I will answer for you as your answer is no. Not even you could ever possibly obey all 613 laws little less retain all 613 in your head. Not even Moses or any man that has ever lived has ever kept all of them. But, yet you say we are to keep all 613, but seem to only speak of ten of them.

Many of us have shown you in the scriptures that all 613 laws brings a curse upon us as no one can keep any of them and we have been set free of the bondage of the laws. You are making the new covenant of God's grace through Christ null and void trying to bring everyone under bondage to the parts of the 613 laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite.

The original seven laws that God first gave to Noah have been added to by God who gave them to Moses, but the ten we talk about are still alive today as they were back then as being part of the moral laws as the greatest commandment is love that is to be keep within all the moral laws that we are to be obedient to until the return of Christ.

The existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow are the laws of prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

I will leave you with what has already been written in the scriptures as it has been posted before, but you see to ignore it.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Quit trying to put others under bondage of 613 laws that has become a curse as we now live by faith in Christ and obedient to God's commands found in the moral laws.

 

[for_his_glory]

If I can just say something really quick before this carries on any further,.. either Elihoenai is going to explain himself and say whether or not he follows all 613 rules or he will not. It sort of looks like its the latter at the moment, so as not to waste anymore breath we should probably get back to the OP topic because this is starting to get old and really ridiculous. (On his part.) That is unless he finally decides to give an answer. However for the time being, I think we should all just move on.

We already know his answer is no, so will move past that. We are not off topic as we are discussing all the law which includes the ten commandments so the discussion will continue the way it is for now.