Are there different degrees of punishment in hell?

[th1b.taylor]

Eyes on the prize. Good advice.

Amen!

To the OP, yes because God is a Just God and will not rule unfairly. Before I give you a scriptural address we must remember that if we get to Heaven, we are there, forever!

In Matt. 22: 1-14, the Wedding Feast Parable clearly demonstrates there are, at least, two levels of people, saved human beings because at the feast there is the Bride, the Groom and the guests.

But I will suggest there are, at least, five levels of Heaven because there is the possibilities for Crowns in Heaven for the Saints. (http://www.fivecrowns.com/five-crowns-of-salvation-2/)

With that in mind and knowing that God is a Just God, a Fair God and I can find, in the scriptures, to believe God will not be as equally fair in Hell, so yes, I have concluded that there are different levels of punishment.

 

[childeye]

Well, yeah, I already know that I'm damned because Jesus raised the bar too high for me to handle, so the only thing left for me is to ponder on how bad my punishment is going to be.

Respectfully, I think that you're either wrong or else I misunderstand your meaning.. Because to me it is Christ that lowers the bar so that all can handle. It is Satan who raises the bar so that no one can handle.

 

[Papa Zoom]

You're wrong. It is Christ that lowers the bar so that all can handle. It is Satan who raises the bar so that no one can handle.

Ok, neither.

There is a bar (being perfectly righteous and being perfect and being perfectly holy) and we can't meet it. This is God's bar. Satan has nothing to do with this. We can't meet this bar. But no worries. Jesus met the bar for us. When we have Christ in us, that bar is perfectly met. That's the biblical position.

Satan lies to us about this truth (which is what I think you mean). He lies because he is a liar. We are to believe God and no one else. Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

 

[Cygnus]

You didn't provide the Scripture.

Yes I did. I figured you've been a christian long enough to know of what verses I was talking about.

Now I have more questions. Is it not true that God wills that all be saved and come to Him?

That is not true in the light you look at it. It's all in the word "will" and "all". Is "all" all people or all of the elect? Is "will" a desire, decree or wish?

If then it is God's will, are you not saying that all have been given to Christ through His will? Sounds a lot like Universal Reconciliation.

There is no universal reconciliation. Only the elect are given to Christ.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Yes I did. I figured you've been a christian long enough to know of what verses I was talking about.

That is not true in the light you look at it. It's all in the word "will" and "all". Is "all" all people or all of the elect? Is "will" a desire, decree or wish?


There is no universal reconciliation. Only the elect are given to Christ.

Cygnus, he's not the only one reading it. Provide the verse address for the benefit of all. ;) #nomindreadershere

 

[Cygnus]

Cygnus, he's not the only one reading it. Provide the verse address for the benefit of all. ;) #nomindreadershere

Yes, Jesus takes hold of us..even against our own will. Let me clarify that by saying, initially. The bible tells us no one seeks God. All men sin and fall short. God grants you the ability to come to Christ. God gives you to Christ.

God regenerates you, creates a new you....and this new you will always choose Christ.

For you Papa Zoom and WIP

Romans 3:11 There is no one who understands; no one who seeks God.
Rom 3;23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
John 6:65 Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
John 10:27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

 

[Papa Zoom]

For you Papa Zoom and WIP

Romans 3:11 There is no one who understands; no one who seeks God.
Rom 3;23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
John 6:65 Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
John 10:27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

 

[Cygnus]

in fact, I think the universalist case — which normally turns on God having all the time in the world, after the death of unbelievers, to go on putting the gospel to them from different angles until at last they accept it — does in our day rather what purgatory did in the Middle Ages.

Do you have any scripture that supports what you just said? Just curious.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Do you have any scripture that supports what you just said? Just curious.

I didn't say that. It's my sig file quote of NT Wright. ;)

 

[childeye]

Ok, neither.

There is a bar (being perfectly righteous and being perfect and being perfectly holy) and we can't meet it. This is God's bar. Satan has nothing to do with this. We can't meet this bar. But no worries. Jesus met the bar for us. When we have Christ in us, that bar is perfectly met. That's the biblical position.

Satan lies to us about this truth (which is what I think you mean). He lies because he is a liar. We are to believe God and no one else. Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Yes God is Holy, but as children reborn we are on our way to being conformed to His Image. Many of the first will be last and many who were last will be first. But there's no need for us to argue semantics concerning this matter. This poster to which I replied has expressed a line of reasoning where he can only ponder what his punishment will be, because he claims that "Christ" highered the bar to where only punishment can be expected from God. That effectively eliminates the semantics and guessing. His reasoning appears to be backwards since faith is about things hoped for and not dreaded.

Therefore I believe that Satan does have something to do with this. He sets a standard according to the law, which is based upon works and not upon faith, and which therefore imprisons all flesh unto death, which by the way is a standard that Satan himself hypocritically does not even meet.

Notice that angels administered the Old Testament, Galatians 3:19, Acts 7:53, Hebrews 2:2. Hebrews 2:5, Ezekiel 28:13, 14. Notice that the power of death belonged to Satan prior to the death of Christ. Hebrews 2:14. Notice that the power of death is according to the Old Testament which condemns all men as sinners Hebrews 2:15, Colossians 2: 13, 14, 15. Notice that the flesh and blood Christ was crucified by the husbandmen of God's vineyard, according to the law they were empowered to administer, despite his being Holy and without any sin. Matthew 21:38, Revelation 12:4. Matthew 27:1.

Finally, Christ lowered the bar set by the law of death, by establishing a law of life, incorporating mercy and understanding. Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:5, Matthew 7:2, Matthew 5:7, Romans 2:1, Romans 8:1, Romans 7:2, Luke 7:47, Romans 8:2.

 

[Cygnus]

I didn't say that. It's my sig file quote of NT Wright. ;)

oops...just noticed that. My apologies.

just for the record, I was wondering what was going on when I tried to quote it and only got the thumbs.

 

[WIP]

That is not true in the light you look at it. It's all in the word "will" and "all". Is "all" all people or all of the elect? Is "will" a desire, decree or wish?

I don't know. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

 

[WIP]

There is no universal reconciliation.

Absolutely agree!

 

[WIP]

Yes I did. I figured you've been a christian long enough to know of what verses I was talking about.

Just a thought. Not everyone is a perfectly learned Christian. None of us is a 100% pure authority and all of us have some things we do not understand. Even between those who are learned and believe they understand we find disagreement and division. That's pretty obvious by the discussions in this forum. This is part of the reason for the rules for posting Scripture references in this forum. We are not to rely on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) and not wise in our own eyes (Proverbs 3:7) but seek God (Isaiah 55:6).

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Out of curiosity, are you saying that Jesus takes hold of us even against our will or does it require a response from us too? If so, please provide the Scripture reference for clarification.

John 6:44, I suppose?

 

[Cygnus]

Just a thought. Not everyone is a perfectly learned Christian. None of us is a 100% pure authority and all of us have some things we do not understand. Even between those who are learned and believe they understand we find disagreement and division. That's pretty obvious by the discussions in this forum. This is part of the reason for the rules for posting Scripture references in this forum. We are not to rely on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) and not wise in our own eyes (Proverbs 3:7) but seek God (Isaiah 55:6).

That was one of your weakest vollies back over the net.

 

[Bick]

Are there different degrees of punishment in hell according to the amount of sins the people have committed during their lifetime?

Does a believer who struggled all his life with the sin of alcohol addiction, but prayed every day and read the Bible often, get sent into the same hell as a mass murderer who tortured and killed women?

Hi, Bick here.
By "hell" I assume you mean the Orthodox view that the souls of all evil persons will, apon death, wind up in the flames of hell.
There is no such place!
We are told "God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7.
Many verses tell us the soul can die, be killed. Since man's soul is his senses, (his ability to experience life),
When man dies his soul "dies, disappears.
Now, concerning various degrees of judgment, I definitely see there will be at the Great White Throne of judgment.

 

[WIP]

That was one of your weakest vollies back over the net.

I don't volley. I don't have to prove to be better at debating.

 

[WIP]

John 6:44, I suppose?

Maybe, but I'm not sure. To draw someone is akin to luring in some cases, although I don't believe God attempts to lure us. Perhaps, where God is concerned, draw is more akin to inviting us through the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 NKJV

 

[Free]

Hi, Bick here.
By "hell" I assume you mean the Orthodox view that the souls of all evil persons will, apon death, wind up in the flames of hell.
There is no such place!
We are told "God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7.
Many verses tell us the soul can die, be killed. Since man's soul is his senses, (his ability to experience life),
When man dies his soul "dies, disappears.
Now, concerning various degrees of judgment, I definitely see there will be at the Great White Throne of judgment.

Not quite.

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV)

Act 2:27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption. (ESV)

If our soul simply dies or disappears when we physically die, then these verses make no sense.