Are there few who are saved, or a great multitude no one could number?

[kjw47]

That ignores what happened to Eve. First Satan cast doubt upon God's Word, "has God indeed said". Then Satan contradicted God, "You will surely not die, you will learn good and evil and become like God. Then Eve took her eyes off of God's Word, and saw the tree as a solution to confusion about God's Word, ingesting it rather than God's Word would make her wise. She wanted to be wise more than anything.

NKJ Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said,`You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"
2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
3 "but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said,`You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Gen. 3:1-6 NKJ)

Satan made the Jehovah's Witnesses desirable to me. I looked at how simple it was to learn God's will, and be told exactly how to serve God. Instead of reading the Bible directly, I read Watchtower books only reading small snips of scripture with it that claimed to confirm Society teaching. Most of the time, the snips were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the teaching of the Society.

For a time I could see nothing else. Scripture that contradicted what the Watchtower said didn't impact me. I desired the Watchtower, the army of witnesses serving Jehovah.

It wasn't until Acts 13:2 I realized the Society contradicted the Bible. As truth cannot contradict, and the bible is God's truth, I realized the Watchtower was wrong. But I wasted years hustling Watchtower magazines, even though I wasn't a baptized witness. It was only when I decided to go all the way, that God the Holy Spirit pulled me out.

Acts 13:2 was "the verse" that caused the Watchtower house of cards to collapse with a great crash:

As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: "Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have them.-Acts 13:2 New World Translation

Edmond Gruss in Apostles of Denial cited the verse and said: "The Holy Spirit has Ego, He commands the disciples personally and says "I" "Me. Only a Person can say I or Me", and I realized he is right.

Prov 8:1--proves not all is as appears in certain statements.) Wisdom cannot call out or give forth its voice literally.
Catholicisms own encyclopedia says in the majority of cases in the bible the holy spirit is not being spoken of as a living being.

 

[LeviR]

That ignores what happened to Eve. First Satan cast doubt upon God's Word, "has God indeed said". Then Satan contradicted God, "You will surely not die, you will learn good and evil and become like God. Then Eve took her eyes off of God's Word, and saw the tree as a solution to confusion about God's Word, ingesting it rather than God's Word would make her wise. She wanted to be wise more than anything.

NKJ Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said,`You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"
2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
3 "but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said,`You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Gen. 3:1-6 NKJ)

Satan made the Jehovah's Witnesses desirable to me. I looked at how simple it was to learn God's will, and be told exactly how to serve God. Instead of reading the Bible directly, I read Watchtower books only reading small snips of scripture with it that claimed to confirm Society teaching. Most of the time, the snips were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the teaching of the Society.

For a time I could see nothing else. Scripture that contradicted what the Watchtower said didn't impact me. I desired the Watchtower, the army of witnesses serving Jehovah.

It wasn't until Acts 13:2 I realized the Society contradicted the Bible. As truth cannot contradict, and the bible is God's truth, I realized the Watchtower was wrong. But I wasted years hustling Watchtower magazines, even though I wasn't a baptized witness. It was only when I decided to go all the way, that God the Holy Spirit pulled me out.

Acts 13:2 was "the verse" that caused the Watchtower house of cards to collapse with a great crash:

As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: "Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have them.-Acts 13:2 New World Translation

Edmond Gruss in Apostles of Denial cited the verse and said: "The Holy Spirit has Ego, He commands the disciples personally and says "I" "Me. Only a Person can say I or Me", and I realized he is right.

Gods gave Adam and Eve the entire garden to eat from, but what fruit did Eve desire, the only one she couldn’t have.
The desire of her belly was for what was forbidden even though nothing else was forbidden.
And when she gave it to Adam, he ate of it also and thereby transgressed the law given to him. And by doing so, his sin condemned the entire human race to die, because the entire human is like him when he was created. Sinful flesh.
So like the snake on its belly they eat and are never satisfied and lick the dust from which they are made until they return to it.
But the one made like his brethren never was unsatisfied with anything God gave him and overcame the world and did not sin even though like us having our same nature.
The nature was condemned on the cross. The devil was destroyed in his flesh.
When we look to him there is no more condemnation for us because God accepted his sacrifice.

 

[Alfred Persson]

FACT=Jesus would use a translation with his Father's name put back in if he were on earth today.

Jesus quoted the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which translates YHWH as "Lord" or "God") rather than the Hebrew or Aramaic scriptures in several instances in the New Testament. Here are some notable examples:

1. Matthew 4:4: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3
   • "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God."
   • The wording in the Greek is closer to the Septuagint version than the Masoretic Text (Hebrew).
2. Matthew 4:7: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:16
   • "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
   • The wording matches the Septuagint.
3. Matthew 4:10: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:13
   • "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."
   • Again, the wording is closer to the Septuagint.
4. Matthew 21:16: Jesus quotes Psalm 8:2
   • "Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise."
   • This quote follows the Septuagint wording, whereas the Hebrew text is slightly different.
5. Mark 7:6-7: Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13
   • "This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
   • The wording is closer to the Septuagint.
6. Luke 4:18-19: Jesus reads from Isaiah 61:1-2 in the synagogue
   • "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
   • This quotation follows the Septuagint more closely than the Masoretic Text.
7. John 12:38-40: Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:10
   • "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" and "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."
   • These quotes reflect the Septuagint translation.

These instances indicate that Jesus, or the Gospel writers, often used the Septuagint when quoting the Old Testament, which was widely used among Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You miss the point of the watchtower--Every Sunday worldwide a JW gets the same spiritual feeding by using publications like the watchtower that explains Gods written word with bible passages in each paragraph showing Gods truth. Plus a local needs talk is given. On the midweek meeting 2 or 3 bible chapters like Gen 1-3, then Gen 4-6, sometimes just 2 if they are longer. Plus a bible study on a certain subject out of a publication used alongside the bible explaining it. We are taught every utterance from God, it never stops. Thus by having the same spiritual feedings worldwide every week, we accomplish this true mark=1Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.
No mortal can understand the symbolism in the bible without being taught by these-Matt 24:45--They can understand simple things but not many of the deep things unless taught by the ones Jesus appointed.

Yes, I recall that delusion well.

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Gen. 3:6 NKJ)

Satan made the Jehovah's Witnesses desirable to me. I looked at how simple it was to learn God's will, and be told exactly how to serve God. Instead of reading the Bible directly, I read Watchtower books, They mixed in God's Word with theirs, using small quotes often with ellipses .... so the Bible seemed to confirm the Watchtower Magazine.

Most of the time, the snips were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the teaching of the Society. But I didn't know that because I didn't read the Bible verses in context, studying what scripture said before and after the verse cited----to know it was being taken out of context to teach a pretext.

The JWs were beautiful to me, they alone served Jehovah! Everyone else was corrupted by false religion, Babylon the Great! They alone used God's Name! (Invented by a Spanish Catholic Priest! The irony!)

For a time I could see nothing else. When Scripture didn't line up with the Watchtower, I assumed I didn't understand something correctly. I'd look it up in their books and find the answer. Every topic was wonderfully indexed, I could find any information in seconds in their books. In the Watchtower publications was good food, and pleasant to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise. Each topic arranged so its easy to understand.

My eyes were fixed on the Watchtower, that beautiful tower was like a prophet of God, speaking the very Word of God.

I gave away thousands of dollars' worth of Watchtower books, leaving them in public places and bringing whole libraries to every ship I served on, believing I was spreading God's Word. When my fill in job at the taxi company told me to stop talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, I quit the job!

It wasn't until Acts 13:2 I realized the Society contradicted the Bible. As truth cannot contradict itself, and the bible is God's truth, I realized the Watchtower had to be wrong.

As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: "Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have them.-Acts 13:2 New World Translation

Edmond Gruss in "Apostles of Denial" cited the verse saying: "The Holy Spirit has Ego, He commands the disciples personally and says "I" "Me. Only a Person can say I or Me", and I realized he is right.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Prov 8:1--proves not all is as appears in certain statements.) Wisdom cannot call out or give forth its voice literally.
Catholicisms own encyclopedia says in the majority of cases in the bible the holy spirit is not being spoken of as a living being.

Prov 8:1 is poetic, Acts 13:2 is prose, a "newspaper like report" of what happened. Personifications don't occur in Prose reports of newsworthy events.

Evidently, the Catholic "proof" you cite isn't enough to persuade them Jesus is wrong, that the Holy Spirit is an active force and not a Parakletos "Counselor"----An active force can't be a Lawyer, hence the Personal pronouns "He, Him" are used:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; (Jn. 16:7-8 RPTE)

Another example of the Watchtower contradicting the Truth taught by Jesus Christ our LORD.

 

[kjw47]

Jesus quoted the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which translates YHWH as "Lord" or "God") rather than the Hebrew or Aramaic scriptures in several instances in the New Testament. Here are some notable examples:

1. Matthew 4:4: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3
   • "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God."
   • The wording in the Greek is closer to the Septuagint version than the Masoretic Text (Hebrew).
2. Matthew 4:7: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:16
   • "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
   • The wording matches the Septuagint.
3. Matthew 4:10: Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:13
   • "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."
   • Again, the wording is closer to the Septuagint.
4. Matthew 21:16: Jesus quotes Psalm 8:2
   • "Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise."
   • This quote follows the Septuagint wording, whereas the Hebrew text is slightly different.
5. Mark 7:6-7: Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13
   • "This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
   • The wording is closer to the Septuagint.
6. Luke 4:18-19: Jesus reads from Isaiah 61:1-2 in the synagogue
   • "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
   • This quotation follows the Septuagint more closely than the Masoretic Text.
7. John 12:38-40: Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:10
   • "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" and "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."
   • These quotes reflect the Septuagint translation.

These instances indicate that Jesus, or the Gospel writers, often used the Septuagint when quoting the Old Testament, which was widely used among Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians.

Jesus showed in the Lords prayer that his Fathers name is the #1 issue for all involved. At John 17: 6,26= a prayer to his Father, the one who sent him= the only true God, he shared his Fathers name and promised to keep on making it known.
Its 100% fact=God put his name in his bible over 7000 places because he wants it there= his will, thus 100% Jesus' will as well. And the religion that has Jesus' will as well-0 doubt in all creation.

 

[kjw47]

Yes, I recall that delusion well.

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Gen. 3:6 NKJ)

Satan made the Jehovah's Witnesses desirable to me. I looked at how simple it was to learn God's will, and be told exactly how to serve God. Instead of reading the Bible directly, I read Watchtower books, They mixed in God's Word with theirs, using small quotes often with ellipses .... so the Bible seemed to confirm the Watchtower Magazine.

Most of the time, the snips were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the teaching of the Society. But I didn't know that because I didn't read the Bible verses in context, studying what scripture said before and after the verse cited----to know it was being taken out of context to teach a pretext.

The JWs were beautiful to me, they alone served Jehovah! Everyone else was corrupted by false religion, Babylon the Great! They alone used God's Name! (Invented by a Spanish Catholic Priest! The irony!)

For a time I could see nothing else. When Scripture didn't line up with the Watchtower, I assumed I didn't understand something correctly. I'd look it up in their books and find the answer. Every topic was wonderfully indexed, I could find any information in seconds in their books. In the Watchtower publications was good food, and pleasant to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise. Each topic arranged so its easy to understand.

My eyes were fixed on the Watchtower, that beautiful tower was like a prophet of God, speaking the very Word of God.

I gave away thousands of dollars' worth of Watchtower books, leaving them in public places and bringing whole libraries to every ship I served on, believing I was spreading God's Word. When my fill in job at the taxi company told me to stop talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, I quit the job!

It wasn't until Acts 13:2 I realized the Society contradicted the Bible. As truth cannot contradict itself, and the bible is God's truth, I realized the Watchtower had to be wrong.

As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: "Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have them.-Acts 13:2 New World Translation

Edmond Gruss in "Apostles of Denial" cited the verse saying: "The Holy Spirit has Ego, He commands the disciples personally and says "I" "Me. Only a Person can say I or Me", and I realized he is right.

God made his name, not a delusional spanish priest trying to take credit.
How do you get by the fact that in every translation on earth the teachings of Jesus back the JW,s?
How do you get by the fact God was never a trinity? And was created at the council of Constantinople in 381 ce=recorded history fact, when they added the holy spirit to a godhead?
You let the darkness beat you.

Why doesn't the holy spirit have a personal name like every other being?
Why is he never seen on a throne?
Why doesn't the Father share honor and glory with it like he does to the son?

Only the Father knows the day and hour=100% proof 0 equality between the 3.

 

[kjw47]

Prov 8:1 is poetic, Acts 13:2 is prose, a "newspaper like report" of what happened. Personifications don't occur in Prose reports of newsworthy events.

Evidently, the Catholic "proof" you cite isn't enough to persuade them Jesus is wrong, that the Holy Spirit is an active force and not a Parakletos "Counselor"----An active force can't be a Lawyer, hence the Personal pronouns "He, Him" are used:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; (Jn. 16:7-8 RPTE)

Another example of the Watchtower contradicting the Truth taught by Jesus Christ our LORD.

You will find out different. This system is almost done.

 

[iLOVE]

You left out those who passed the Judgment after they died, and now eagerly wait for Christ's Second Coming for salvation from Hades, to rise with the Church at the rapture:

26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:26-28 NKJ)

They gave an account of their lives and were judged, all who repented and believed the Gospel preached ALSO to the dead, now live according to God in Hades, waiting for the Rapture:

5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:5-6 NKJ)

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess. 4:15-18 NKJ)

We can be comforted our loved ones who died unsaved, but would repent and believe in Hades, will be there waiting for us.

There is no such thing as purgatory.

 

[Alfred Persson]

There is no such thing as purgatory.

I agree. Universal opportunity for salvation only through Jesus, isn't purgatory.

 

[Alfred Persson]

There is no such thing as purgatory.

A few relevant Questions:

Many Christians who deny salvation after death through Jesus, make exceptions for those who live morally good lives but died belonging to other religions.

The Pope does that. Do you?

What about aborted children, or children who die before they reach any "age of accountability"? Do you think they are saved even though they died without believing in Christ?

What happens to the mentally disabled when they die without Christ?

What about all those generations of people who died never knowing about Christ because they lived in BC times, or in countries far removed from Israel?

I've been a believer over 40 years. I noticed an inconsistency. Many of those who claim to believe all who die without Christ go to hell---------never tell that to their friends, neighbors and family. If they truly believe all who die without Christ go to hell, why aren't they 24/7 warning everyone about that?

That inconsistency makes me question if they really believe God sends every unbeliever to hell, but refuse to admit it because of peer pressure from their church. Is that true of you?

Its one thing to post here and have all the usual folks congratulating you for "orthodoxy", but quite another to tell your neighbor, coworker or boss he is going to hell when he dies.

Does anyone tell a grieving family their beloved daughter or son is now in hell, because they didn't believe in Christ? Does that ever happen? Why not?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Rom. 1:16 NKJ)

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