Are we born with a sin nature?

[for_his_glory]

We all have a sin nature as we have all been conceived and born into a sinful world by that of Satan's deceit. IE: the fall of Adam and Eve being deceived by Satan using the serpent as his vessel, Genesis 3:1-15. Like Adam and Eve we are created and born without sin as God created each of us and can not even look upon sin so why would God create us sinful, John 9:31; Romans 8:7,8: Mark 15:34 (God did not forsake his son on the cross, but had to look away as Jesus was taking all our sin upon himself.

Adam and Eve were created sinless, but placed into a sinful world because of Satan being cast down to the ground and became sin to the nations before that of God creating Adam, Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:13-17. They lost sight of God for a temporary moment and paid the penalty of their sin by God casting them out of the garden and placing them into a sinful world. There is nowhere in scripture that actually says Adam or Eve repented and asked for forgiveness, but we do see that God provided for them as he made them clothing from animals to cover their shame and we can correlate that as the first animal sacrifice for the atonement of sin (shame) leading up to that of Jesus being the final sacrifice for sin as God clothes us in His righteousness.

Genesis 3:21-24 we see God clothing them and also sending them out of the garden for judgment passed on them so they could not eat from the tree of life and literally live forever, but to now having to work the land God provided for them outside of the garden and eat from it till they returned back to the dust of the ground through physical death. We can also read in Genesis 4:1 that Eve gave birth to Cain and exclaimed she got a male child from the Lord so I do feel they repented and God forgave them as God continued to provide for them, but not the way in which He intended to in he garden.

David’s transgressions were from a sin nature of being born into a sinful world and not that of being born a sinner when he made the statement in Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. David’s transgressions were that of lusting after things that were not his, 2 Samuel 12:1-24, in wanting more than what God had already blessed him with and he became an angry man full of greed until God humbled his heart through the death of his son he had with Bathsheba and once David was humbled he returned back to Gods grace and became that man of God that God predestined him to be.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. They are not born astray, but stray into sin after birth by that of sin that is already in the world that deceives them. A child will imitate that of the adults around them so they will either imitate that of God and His goodness in love as seen in their parents or will imitate that of evil that is taught by their parents. The child does not know yet of good or evil, but their life will be influenced by what

 

[for_his_glory]

they learn, Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Matthew 18:3 Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. What Jesus is saying here is that we need to be converted in all humility like that of a child as their example of humility as being humble and without pride.

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? As a child we take on our physical attributes from our physical parents, but our spirit we get from God when he breathed live into us. God created us in His image and if we were already born with a sin nature that knew evil then that would mean Gods image would be evil since we are created in His image, but we know that is not the case, because in God there is no evil and we are born without evil in us, but are born into an evil world.

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. If we were conceived and born with evil in us then how could we wax worse in evil and be deceived by others as we would already be evil, but again we are made in the pure image of God so how can evil be found in us before we were even born from the womb.

Luke 8:
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

How do we get an honest and good heart if we are not born with one as it is only by the evil that is in the world that will cause us to be deceived if we lust after it. Once again, train up a child in the way they should go and they will not turn from it. Parents are the ones who we get our attributes from as a child are influenced by what we see and hear around us.

 

[farouk]

for_his_glory:

Great verses there.

Also, the fact that according to Ephesians 2 in unbelief we are 'dead in trespasses and sins' is good to remember. (Thus, nothing less than the new birth is necessary.)

Blessings.

 

[childeye]

I like the topic of this discussion. The way I see it, all that transpires in time unto the purpose of God is predestined. This world or rather "age of sin" is necessary so as to eradicate the doubt that sin is established upon. Talking about sin involves understanding what sin is and how it has come to exist as a form of corruption in creation. So as to say that we were made in God's Image but were corrupted in ourselves when we were decieved into accepting a corrupt image of God through a form of subterfuge placed upon the minds of the naive and innocent. That false image of god as well as all false images of god must be destroyed for there to be freedom from sin.

 

[wayseer]

We all have a sin nature as we have all been conceived and born into a sinful world by that of Satan's deceit.

Genetics will prove you wrong.

Your premises is wrong therefore anything flowing from you premises will, likewise, also be wrong.

 

[wayseer]

The way I see it, all that transpires in time unto the purpose of God is predestined.

If we are no more than puppets on strings then nothing you and I do matters.

 

[childeye]

If we are no more than puppets on strings then nothing you and I do matters.

Respectfully, I would point out that how we effect others is all that matters even though this is something we must come to learn to appreciate. Also that everything we do, morally speaking, is governed by some degree of conscience which includes even the true and sincere remorse of repentance.

I don't see us as puppets on strings but rather participants on a journey out of darkness and into the Light of the Truth of God. And this all happens unto the testimony of the Holiness of God as is witnessed upon a cross of suffering and death, where His Divine Love which is not of this world, was exhibited unto our shame.

It is therefore not a testimonial to the glory of the flesh of our existence, which therefore means that God's Love and our life and Light is a product of Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ comes only by grace through faith in God's mercy. It is impossible therefore that the son's of Light be born out of anything but by the power of God's faithfulness in keeping His promise rather than by the wills of men held captive under any false image created by either angels or men. The New Covenant and the power of the Gospel was predestined therefore, and God declares the end from the beginning. Hence it is said that God subjected the whole creation to futility, so that He could subject it to hope. This is a big picture to me and that is what I am trying to convey as pertinent to this thread.

I think the starter of this thread, for his glory, is right in indicating we were first made in the Image of God, pure in innocence and trust. But that was destroyed through belief in a false image of God and sin entered in. Subsequently, our nature is in conflict between carnal and Spiritual thinking.

 

[for_his_glory]

Genetics will prove you wrong.

Your premises is wrong therefore anything flowing from you premises will, likewise, also be wrong.

You reply only with a very small fraction of the whole of the OP without studying the whole and say it's genetics, so since God created each of us and made us in His image then you are saying God has a genetic from some other that is higher then He or that He is sinful since He is the one who formed us in our mothers womb! Please explain that to me and with scripture for your support so I may study that for myself.

 

[wayseer]

Respectfully, I would point out that how we effect others is all that matters even though this is something we must come to learn to appreciate. Also that everything we do, morally speaking, is governed by some degree of conscience which includes even the true and sincere remorse of repentance.

I don't see us as puppets on strings but rather participants on a journey out of darkness and into the Light of the Truth of God. And this all happens unto the testimony of the Holiness of God as is witnessed upon a cross of suffering and death, where His Divine Love which is not of this world, was exhibited unto our shame.

It is therefore not a testimonial to the glory of the flesh of our existence, which therefore means that God's Love and our life and Light is a product of Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ comes only by grace through faith in God's mercy. It is impossible therefore that the son's of Light be born out of anything but by the power of God's faithfulness in keeping His promise rather than by the wills of men held captive under any false image created by either angels or men. The New Covenant and the power of the Gospel was predestined therefore, and God declares the end from the beginning. Hence it is said that God subjected the whole creation to futility, so that He could subject it to hope. This is a big picture to me and that is what I am trying to convey as pertinent to this thread.

I think the starter of this thread, for his glory, is right in indicating we were first made in the Image of God, pure in innocence and trust. But that was destroyed through belief in a false image of God and sin entered in. Subsequently, our nature is in conflict between carnal and Spiritual thinking.

... all of which is beside the point.

You have claimed that creation is predestined. If creation is predestined then creation is predestined - programmed - and there is nothing you and I can do. That means God is the creator of evil and if one is evil there is nothing one can do. Therefore Jesus death achieved nothing which means our salvation is nothing less than a sick joke.

Now I don't think you mean this at all. So I am asking you to think a little deeper rather than relying of cliches.

 

[wayseer]

You reply only with a very small fraction of the whole of the OP without studying the whole and say it's genetics, so since God created each of us and made us in His image then you are saying God has a genetic from some other that is higher then He or that He is sinful since He is the one who formed us in our mothers womb! Please explain that to me and with scripture for your support so I may study that for myself.

You don't need scripture - you need science.

You made the unsupportable claim that 'we all have a sinful nature'. I challenge such claim.

How is this 'sinful nature' transmitted? Where did this 'sinful nature' originate? If we are 'made in the image of God' then it appears you are you suggesting God is evil.

Please show me scriptural support for this position.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Genetics will prove you wrong.

Your premises is wrong therefore anything flowing from you premises will, likewise, also be wrong.

Why would a child die or suffer great disability in the womb, if they have no sin?

Does a child that dies in the womb, have need of a saviour?

 

[Dustoftheearth]

If we are no more than puppets on strings then nothing you and I do matters.

Jesus said that sin comes from out of the heart. Even if we have not outwardly committed a sinful act, we can still have sin of the heart (inwardly)

[FONT=&quot]How does the heart become sinful, if we are not born with a sinful heart?[/FONT]

 

[ezra]

psalms 51: 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;

and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

[iLOVE]

All infants, children, and teenagers go to heaven...up to age 19.

 

[smaller]

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[iLOVE]

You don't need scripture - you need science.

You made the unsupportable claim that 'we all have a sinful nature'. I challenge such claim.

How is this 'sinful nature' transmitted? Where did this 'sinful nature' originate? If we are 'made in the image of God' then it appears you are you suggesting God is evil.

Please show me scriptural support for this position.

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

[jasoncran]

All infants, children, and teenagers go to heaven...up to age 19.

huh. why then bother with the gospel to them teens then? i think its when they are old enough to understand sin. i was well at age 10 aware of sins and even younger.

 

[iLOVE]

huh. why then bother with the gospel to them teens then? i think its when they are old enough to understand sin. i was well at age 10 aware of sins and even younger.

14 All who cross over, those twenty years old or more, are to give an offering to the Lord. Exodus 30:14

 

[jasoncran]

yet god ordered the killing of kids who didnt beleive in the prophet elisha. kids? a kid to a jew isnt 13 but 12 or under. sorry.

 

[iLOVE]

yet god ordered the killing of kids who didnt beleive in the prophet elisha. kids? a kid to a jew isnt 13 but 12 or under. sorry.

I did not write the bible. I only post facts.