are we in the middle of the 6th seal?

[hisvessel1]

May I suggest requesting a free copy of the booklet, "Revelation: the mystery unveiled" at http://www.tomorrowsworld.org

this is a really good teaching of the book of Revelations and it is filled with references leading back to the bible.

But I also agree, we must seek the knowledge of Jehovah God's word by studying the bible everyday and the mysteries will be revealed to us.

May i ask who is affiliated [sp ] with the site you posted? Just curious.

 

[veteran]

So Who is the rider of Rev.6:2 in the first seal??

I can only declare who I believe it is to you and why...

1st SEAL:
Rev 6:2
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
(KJV)

Mark 13:5-6
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
(KJV)

Christ comes on a white horse in Rev.19 wearing many crowns (diadema) and has a "sharp sword". The rider of Rev.6:2 wears a crown (stephanos) and has a bow (toxon) of simple fabric. Our Lord's first warning of Mark 13 was against deception. The Rev.6:2 white horse rider represents a fake. God pointed to the devil in Isaiah 14 when He quoted the devil saying how he will sit in God's place, and be like The Most High. God called him the 'morning star' (heylel), but the KJV translators rendered that word as "Lucifer" instead. The idea is Satan wants to be The Real Morning Star Jesus Christ, but he is not. This is why the rider on the white horse with a bow of simple fabric represents the devil, and not our Lord Jesus. The 1st seal is about the fake rider.


2nd SEAL:

Rev 6:3-4
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
(KJV)

Mark 13:7
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
(KJV)

Mark 13:7 parallels the 2nd seal events, about wars. Our Lord warns to not be troubled during that period of wars, for the end shall not be yet. The opposite of that is a time of peace.


3rd SEAL:

Rev 6:5-6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
(KJV)

Mark 13:8
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
(KJV)

The meaning of the black horse with balances is that of famine. A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny is an expression about high cost just to make a loaf of bread because of lack. In Mark 13:8 our Lord Jesus shows the wars of the 2nd seal continues into the 3rd seal, which produces famine and troubles, the beginnings of sorrows.

4th SEAL:

Rev 6:7-8
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
(KJV)

The 4th seal is about control over a fourth part of the earth. The rider on the pale horse has the name of "Death", a pointer to Satan himself, since the power of death has been assigned to him (Heb.2:14). It's connected with the Joel prophecy of the four stage development of the locust army which God sends upon the earth, giving it control. God uses the four natural stages of a locust's develpment to compare it to.

5th SEAL:

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(KJV)

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(KJV)

The 5th seal is about a Testimony Christ's elect will give during the tribulation, being delivered up to councils and the synagogues under Satan's control.

6th SEAL:

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
(KJV)

Mark 13:14-25
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
(KJV)

WITHIN the 6th seal events is given the idea of stars falling from heaven "as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." That relates to the parable of a fig tree which our Lord Jesus only gave a portion of in The Gospel Books. The fig parable actually began to be given (in parts) back in the Old Testament. Our Lord Jesus continued it in the Gospel Books, and in Revelation. Per Jeremiah 24, it is about the good and the bad, the true and the fake. Judges 9 gives an important part of the fig parable.

An 'untimley' fig in horticulture means a 'winter' fig, one that grows in the winter early, but falls off in the spring, meaning 'out of season'! There's a proper season for the good fig, and a false season for the untimely fig (or fake). So how does that parable connect with that event of the 'abomination of desolation' and that false Christ ("false Christs"= a pseudo Christ per the Greek); and even that rider on the white horse of Rev.6:2 about the fake?

Now if that sounds kind of interesting, but unbelievable that our Lord intended those meanings in that parable, allow me to leave you with the following.

In real fig horticulture, there were originally only two types of figs. The Smyrna fig is the sweet or edible fig, from Smyrna, Turkey. It represents the good fig. Then there's the Caprice fig, a BITTER fig, which is also called the 'goat' fig. It's bitter to the taste. Then there's the fig wasp which takes from the sweet edible fig, and pollinates the bitter goat fig, so it can continue to have life. The good basket of figs in the vision God showed Jeremiah represents Judah, but the evil basket of figs there represents other children also among them which point to the 'goats' our Lord Jesus will separate on His left hand when He comes, i.e., like the "tares" in Matthew 13. Thusly, 'pray your flight is not in winter', meaning not being taken out of season to the 'untimely figs', but instead we are to be found waiting for Christ at the true season of summer harvest, after the false season of figs.

 

[micaela]

May I suggest requesting a free copy of the booklet, "Revelation: the mystery unveiled" at http://www.tomorrowsworld.org

this is a really good teaching of the book of Revelations and it is filled with references leading back to the bible.

But I also agree, we must seek the knowledge of Jehovah God's word by studying the bible everyday and the mysteries will be revealed to us.

May i ask who is affiliated [sp ] with the site you posted? Just curious.

I believe it is, Living Church of God. I found this site searching for 'free christian literature'.

 

[seekandlisten]

I would like to suggest a site with Isaac Newton's work as having a lot of useful information in regards to biblical prophecy and end times. I am usually not to concerned when it comes to end times prophecy, as what is going to happen has already been planned and it isn't a worry of mine. Here's the site.

http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=74

 

[hisvessel1]

May I suggest requesting a free copy of the booklet, "Revelation: the mystery unveiled" at http://www.tomorrowsworld.org

this is a really good teaching of the book of Revelations and it is filled with references leading back to the bible.

But I also agree, we must seek the knowledge of Jehovah God's word by studying the bible everyday and the mysteries will be revealed to us.

May i ask who is affiliated [sp ] with the site you posted? Just curious.

I believe it is, Living Church of God. I found this site searching for 'free christian literature'.

Thank you,i'll do some research on this site.

 

[nadab]

So Who is the rider of Rev.6:2 in the first seal??

The rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 6:2 is the same as the rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 19:11. Due to a failure to grasp the time period that Jesus called his "presence" (Greek pa·rou·si´as, not "coming" as in the King James Bible) at Matthew 24:3, 37, and 39, most have been unable to determine that Jesus has been enthroned as king of God's heavenly government.

The apostle Peter pointed out that the "last days" is the same as Jesus "promised presence" at 2 Peter 3:3, 4, saying: "For you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence (Greek pa·rou·si´as meaning "presence" not "coming" as in the King James Bible) of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.â€

In describing features of the "sign" of his invisible "presence" to four of his apostles he spoke of at Matthew 24:3, Jesus said: "Look out that nobody misleads you; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet."(Matt 24:5, 6)

He then gave details concerning his invisible "presence" that would assist in understanding Revelation 6:2-8, saying: "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:7, 8) When, for the first time in human history, was "nation....against nation and kingdom against kingdom" on a global scale ?

With the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand and his wife Sophie of Austria on June 28, 1914 by Gavrilo Princip, a young Serbian, this set in motion the events that led up the outbreak of war. As a result, by August 3, 1914, the world became embroiled in a conflict that escalated into global war, World War I, eventually encompassing 93 percent of the world's population, thus fulfilling Jesus words of "nation....against nation and kingdom against kingdom", the beginning of his invisible "promised presence", the start of the "last days".

The beginning of Jesus "promised (invisible) presence" was more than just an event, but marked also his enthronement as king of God's kingdom. Revelation 6:2 describes Jesus upon a "white horse", with a "crown" being given him, and "he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest." With his enthronement in 1914, Jesus set out to go "forth conquering and to complete his conquest."

What was the first task he accomplished ? To cast Satan and his demons out of heaven, for Revelation 12:7-9 describes it as a "war (that) broke out in heaven", with Satan and his demons being "hurled down to the earth." What ensued ? "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.â€(Rev 12:12)

Jesus had already visualized this while on the earth, for he said to his disciples: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."(Luke 10:18) Thus, with the ouster of Satan and his "angels" down to the vicinity of the earth, "woe" began, great troubles, with the outbreak of global war, WWI.

Thus, Revelation 6:3, 4 says that "when he (the Lamb) opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!" And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him."

Indeed "peace (was taken) away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him." World War I (called the Great War until WWII) cost the lives of some 21 million soldiers and civilians. But Revelation 6:5-8 identifies that more was to occur than just global war that would happen during Jesus invisible "presence".

Just as a "sign" is not the place to which a person is going, but only points toward it, so likewise of the features of the "sign" of Jesus "presence". The features that Jesus described (and at Revelation 6) pointed to his invisible "presence" in kingdom power, with those like "eagles" able to discern this time period.(Matt 24:27, 28)

 

[hisvessel1]

So Who is the rider of Rev.6:2 in the first seal??

The rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 6:2 is the same as the rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 19:11.

May i suggest you read Rev.6:2 over again? Since when does Jesus come to" conquer"? Also, does Jesus use "diplomacy" offering "peace"? I think not. KJV

 

[Mysteryman]

Rev. 6:2 the white horse - crown - bow

The bow represents the bow which God put in the cloud, as a covenant between himself and the earth.

The white horse represents the earth being cleansed from all of its unrighteousness

The crown represents the beginning of kingship - Genesis 14:1 shows the first named king

 

[hisvessel1]

Rev. 6:2 the white horse - crown - bow

The bow represents the bow which God put in the cloud, as a covenant between himself and the earth .

The white horse represents the earth being cleansed from all of its unrighteousness

The crown represents the beginning of kingship - Genesis 14:1 shows the first named king

Are you talking about Amraphel, king of Shinar? Btw, what Bible are you reading from?

 

[Mysteryman]

Rev. 6:2 the white horse - crown - bow

The bow represents the bow which God put in the cloud, as a covenant between himself and the earth .

The white horse represents the earth being cleansed from all of its unrighteousness

The crown represents the beginning of kingship - Genesis 14:1 shows the first named king

Are you talking about Amraphel, king of Shinar? Btw, what Bible are you reading from?

Hi

The crown represents kingship

 

[hisvessel1]

Rev. 6:2 the white horse - crown - bow

The bow represents the bow which God put in the cloud, as a covenant between himself and the earth .

The white horse represents the earth being cleansed from all of its unrighteousness

The crown represents the beginning of kingship - Genesis 14:1 shows the first named king

Are you talking about Amraphel, king of Shinar? Btw, what Bible are you reading from?

Hi

The crown represents kingship

May i suggest you look up the word again? The word has differant meanings. Still confused about the "bow" God put in the cloud. White horse represents the earth? Please show me the scriptures for these....

 

[Mysteryman]

The bow represents the bow which God put in the cloud, as a covenant between himself and the earth .

The white horse represents the earth being cleansed from all of its unrighteousness

The crown represents the beginning of kingship - Genesis 14:1 shows the first named king[/quote]
Are you talking about Amraphel, king of Shinar? Btw, what Bible are you reading from?[/quote]

Hi

The crown represents kingship[/quote]
May i suggest you look up the word again? The word has differant meanings. Still confused about the "bow" God put in the cloud. White horse represents the earth? Please show me the scriptures for these.... [/quote]

Hi There

No, the white horse represents righteousness. God cleansed the earth of all its evil.

The bow is in Gen. 9:13

 

[hisvessel1]

[/quote]

Hi There

No, the white horse represents righteousness. God cleansed the earth of all its evil.

The bow is in Gen. 9:13[/quote]
You must be talking about the Noahic Covenant God made to Noah. Sorry, i don't see a white horse mentioned here. Can you give scriptures?

 

[nadab]

So Who is the rider of Rev.6:2 in the first seal??

The rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 6:2 is the same as the rider of the "white horse" at Revelation 19:11.

May i suggest you read Rev.6:2 over again? Since when does Jesus come to" conquer"? Also, does Jesus use "diplomacy" offering "peace"? I think not. KJV

At Psalms 110:1, 2, it says: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.†The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:] “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.â€

Thus, an appointed time was set for Jesus, after sitting at his Father's "right hand", to then take hold of kingdom power and "go subduing (or conquering) in the midst of (his) enemies". That is why Revelation 6:2 says that the rider on the "white horse" goes "forth conquering and to complete his conquest."

Before the cataclysmic events that follow the opening of the sixth seal at Revelation 6:12-16, Psalms 2:4-6 says that "the very One sitting in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah himself will hold them (the nations) in derision. At that time he will speak to them in his anger and in his hot displeasure he will disturb them, Saying: “I, even I, have installed my king upon Zion, my holy mountain.â€

Thus, before God speaks to the nations "in his anger," at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty,"(Rev 16:14) Jesus has been installed as king, with this resulting in Satan and his demons being cast out of heaven and causing "woe for the earth and for the sea."(Rev 12:12)

As a consequence of Jesus being given a "crown", the "fiery-colored horse" came forth, whereby "there was granted (it) to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him."(Rev 6:4) How is this to be understood, that "peace (was taken) from the (entire) earth so that they should slaughter one another" by means of a "great sword" after the rider of the "white horse" was given a "crown" ?

Prior to World War I, the earth was experiencing "peace". Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the United States Federal Reserve Board for almost twenty years, wrote in his book, The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World : "By all contemporaneous accounts, the world prior to 1914 seemed to be moving irreversibly toward higher levels of civility and civilization; human society seemed perfectible. The nineteenth century had brought an end to the wretched slave trade. Dehumanizing violence seemed on the decline. . . . "

"The pace of global invention had advanced throughout the nineteenth century, bringing railroads, the telephone, the electric light, cinema, the motor car, and household conveniences too numerous to mention. Medical science, improved nutrition, and the mass distribution of potable water had elevated life expectancy . . . The sense of the irreversibility of such progress was universal. World War I was more devastating to civility and civilization than the physically far more destructive World War II: the earlier conflict destroyed an idea. I cannot erase the thought of those pre-World War I years, when the future of mankind appeared unencumbered and without limit."

Greenspan recalled from his student days a statement by Economics Professor Benjamin M. Anderson (1886-1949): “Those who have an adult’s recollection and an adult’s understanding of the world which preceded World War I look back upon it with a great nostalgia. There was a sense of security then which has never since existed.â€â€”Economics and the Public Welfare.

Thus, with the outbreak of WWI, "peace (was taken) away from the earth" and that this one feature provides collaborating evidence that Jesus was installed as king of God's kingdom in 1914, causing great "woe", due to Satan and his wicked angels being thrown out of heaven.(Rev 12:9) This momentous event was unseen on the earth.

That is why Jesus gave features of the "sign of (his invisible) presence" at Matthew 24:7, 8, for only by understanding the features of this "sign" can a person grasp when Jesus became king unseen to the human eye. Jesus likened such ones, that have grasped the meaning of the "sign of (Jesus invisible) presence, to "eagles" at Matthew 24:27, 28, ones that have spiritually keen sense.

 

[olympia]

For years I have documented the sequence of events as I have found them in the OT and NT. I have done this for my own information, but will share them if your interested. This is what I have one the 6th seal.

THE GREAT TRIBULATION (TGT); GREAT DAY OF GOD’S WRATH (the 6th seal)

Revelation 6:12-17, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16) And said to the mountains and rocks, fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that setteth on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 14:8, “And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.â€

Matthew 24:21-24, “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.â€
23, “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christ’s, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.â€

Luke 23:28-30, “But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughter of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29) For, behold, the days are coming in which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the pap’s which never gave suck.
30) Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, fall on us; and to the hills, and Cover us.â€

During the time of the ‘falling away’ there are many claiming to be Christ, but this is nothing compared to the time of TGT. During this time there will come false prophets with exceptional powers and enticing words such as there has never been before. They will do miracles and signs and wonders so great that if it were possible they will deceive the very elect. They will be charismatic and easily deceive those who have little or no knowledge of the Word. Many will be deceived because they did not take heed to God’s warning and prepare themselves for the day when He would pour out his wrath upon the earth.

Matthew 24:9, Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you; and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.â€

Mark 13:19-20, “For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20) “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.â€

Isaiah 13:6-11, “Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7) Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt.
8) And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9) Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate; and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.â€
10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah 5:30, “…And if one look unto the land (nations), behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.â€

I find that the Great Tribulation is spoken of early on by the prophets. It is a day of dread and one of the most notable events to come. And from the description of the times it appears that a global earthquake will trigger the Great Tribulation which is yet to happen. But more notable than the Great Tribulation is the land of Isreal and what is in store for the saints.

In Christ

 

[hisvessel1]

nadab, i really have to disagree with what you say. the riders in Rev.6:2 and Rev.19:11 are not the same. what bible are you reading from?...

 

[lecoop]

After reading all the various theories presented here, I must say, thank GOD for the Holy Spirit, sent to be a teacher. I would that ALL would learn how to get Him to teach.

First, before one even READS the first seal, one MUST get the CONTEXT.
How can you ever hope to get the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit, on the 1st seal, without understanding the CONTEXT.

The context is the heavenly vision. John saw this vison in about 95 AD. As you read when John FIRST saw into the throne room, one thing should immediately come to mind:

Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

This is STephen looking up into heaven. He saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father, way back them.
So the first thing one notices: JESUS IS NOT at the right hand of God. But, HE SHOULD BE.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Ephesians 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

There are many more. How many do we need? You cannot just overlook this. Jesus was NOT IN the throne room when John looked in - in the vision.

THEREFORE WE MUST ASK WHY.

Next, a seach was made for one worthy to break the seals. THIS FIRST SEACH ENDED IN FAILURE!
We CANNOT overlook this. We must ascertain WHY.

Rev 5
3And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Again, one CANNOT just skip over this and read ahead. WHY was no man found worthy? The answer is the SAME answer to the first question.

We could go on and ask WHY the Holy Spirit is IN the throne room, in a vison given in 95 AD, when Jesus said, as soon as I go up, I will send HIm down. AGain, SAME ANSWER.

So, IS ANYONE HERE ABLE to answer these questions, so we can get the CONTEXT right?

Once we get the context right, many will see immediately what this first seal CANNOT represent.
Coop

 

[Mysteryman]

After reading all the various theories presented here, I must say, thank GOD for the Holy Spirit, sent to be a teacher. I would that ALL would learn how to get Him to teach.

First, before one even READS the first seal, one MUST get the CONTEXT.
How can you ever hope to get the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit, on the 1st seal, without understanding the CONTEXT.[/size]

The context is the heavenly vision. John saw this vison in about 95 AD. As you read when John FIRST saw into the throne room, one thing should immediately come to mind:

Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

This is STephen looking up into heaven. He saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father, way back them.
So the first thing one notices: JESUS IS NOT at the right hand of God. But, HE SHOULD BE.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Ephesians 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

There are many more. How many do we need? You cannot just overlook this. Jesus was NOT IN the throne room when John looked in - in the vision.

THEREFORE WE MUST ASK WHY.

Next, a seach was made for one worthy to break the seals. THIS FIRST SEACH ENDED IN FAILURE!
We CANNOT overlook this. We must ascertain WHY.

Rev 5
3And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Again, one CANNOT just skip over this and read ahead. WHY was no man found worthy? The answer is the SAME answer to the first question.

We could go on and ask WHY the Holy Spirit is IN the throne room, in a vison given in 95 AD, when Jesus said, as soon as I go up, I will send HIm down. AGain, SAME ANSWER.

So, IS ANYONE HERE ABLE to answer these questions, so we can get the CONTEXT right?

Once we get the context right, many will see immediately what this first seal CANNOT represent.
Coop

Hi coop

May I ask what you are trying to prove here ?

Why not just present what you believe the first seal means ?

 

[hisvessel1]

Mysteryman, are you going to reply to my post? If not, i understand.

 

[lecoop]

Hi coop

May I ask what you are trying to prove here ?

Why not just present what you believe the first seal means ?

What good would that do? That is what everyone does. Does it really help when 20 people give THEIR opinion - each as if it was the ONLY correct theory?

What we all want, I would hope, is WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT'S INTENT WAS when He had John write.

Can you agree, at least with this?

Coop