Are We Now Ready To Fight Or To Die?

[Jesse]

I don't believe I said that.

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I didn't mean to say YOU were the one saying it, I was simply making a statement of other people in this thread who do make that claim. If we are called to fight, some people in this thread, come along and say this is not doing what Jesus would do, implying that those of us who do stand up and fight have it wrong and are not biblical.

So no, you did not say that - anywhere.

 

[Gary]

I didn't mean to say YOU were the one saying it, I was simply making a statement of other people in this thread who do make that claim. If we are called to fight, some people in this thread, come along and say this is not doing what Jesus would do, implying that those of us who do stand up and fight have it wrong and are not biblical.

So no, you did not say that - anywhere.

You do know they're right...................................................................right?

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[Jesse]

You do know they're right...................................................................right?

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When?
During the OT when Israel was told to wipe out the nations before them OR when Christ returns and destroys the wicked?

 

[Gary]

When?
During the OT when Israel was told to wipe out the nations before them OR when Christ returns and destroys the wicked?

We're not living in either one of those time periods.

Is there anything in the New Testament that condones violence?

Just so you know, I'm not picking on you.

Iron sharpens iron.

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[Jesse]

We're not living in either one of those time periods.

Is there anything in the New Testament that condones violence?

Just so you know, I'm not picking on you.

Iron sharpens iron.

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I bring up both those time periods because God does not change and it seems sometimes people forget that God is also the great Judge and DOES destroy the wicked.

The NT is about God entering our time and space to set up His Kingdom, it was no longer about Israel taking over the land, 2 different eras, 2 different missions.

It is not ok for a parent to watch their child be raped and/or murdered if they are able to step in and stop it from happening. This is a sin of doing nothing when you aught to have done something. This is common sense. Not every single common sense method is listed in the Bible, and not all that we do in this lifetime is written in the Bible either. God gave us senses and intelligence to figure things out as we go on this journey.

 

[Gary]

It is not ok for a parent to watch their child be raped and/or murdered if they are able to step in and stop it from happening.

Why is that always the argument?

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[Jesse]

Why is that always the argument?

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Because people ALWAYS insist they would not lift a finger in the form of violence to stop a criminal - because, in their minds Jesus would not use violence (even though he already did do that and will) but instead of being able to us the WHOLE Bible, people also insist we must ONLY use the NT, even though the whole Bible gives us a much better picture of who God is and how he deals with people - including the evil ones.

People's kids get attacked, people get attacked, people's parents get attacked, strangers get attacked - we should help them, that is LOVE, standing by and doing nothing to help them is not love.

If anyone was being attacked and I had the means to stop the attacker, I would use whatever means there was to help the person, I already know I would do that because I already have done it.

 

[Gary]

People's kids get attacked, people get attacked, people's parents get attacked, strangers get attacked - we should help them, that is LOVE, standing by and doing nothing to help them is not love.

This is what I was taking about. Playing with peoples emotions. Who can disagree with that statement?

Not me.

Because people ALWAYS insist they would not lift a finger in the form of violence to stop a criminal - because, in their minds Jesus would not use violence (even though he already did do that and will)

Show me.

but instead of being able to us the WHOLE Bible, people also insist we must ONLY use the NT, even though the whole Bible gives us a much better picture of who God is and how he deals with people - including the evil ones.

That's because they don't understand the difference between the 2 covenants.

If anyone was being attacked and I had the means to stop the attacker, I would use whatever means there was to help the person, I already know I would do that because I already have done it.

Me too.

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[Jesse]

This is what I was taking about. Playing with peoples emotions. Who can disagree with that statement?

Not me.



Show me.



That's because they don't understand the difference between the 2 covenants.




Me too.

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When a person is being attacked, or if a person's life is in danger - it IS about emotion, it's also about a physiological change in our bodies, which maybe is sort of survival mode. It is easy for a person to say they won't defend themselves or another person, but when they are faced with an attack, it probably is going to be different. People don't want to die.

Do you believe that Jesus is God? God commanded Israel to wipe out nations, including women and children.

The difference between the 2 covenants is how sin is dealt with.

It's a relief to know you would defend yourself!

 

[th1b.taylor]

We're not living in either one of those time periods.

Is there anything in the New Testament that condones violence?

Just so you know, I'm not picking on you.

Iron sharpens iron.

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Gary,
The New Testament is not the Bible, it is the commentary on Life application of the Bible. And to arrive at any concise point in the scriptures, one, absolutely, must draw from the Bible and the commentary. The completed context of scripture begins with "In the beginning..." and ends with that last "Amen" of Revelation 22.

I love to go see what Matthew Henry has to say about this or that matter because he writes a great commentary but it is a commentary and not worth of living by alone, the same is true of the New Testament. Nobody that wants to please Jesus should ever ignore the New Testament but neither should they ever forget that Jesus is the One god that inspired both the Bible and the Commentary to be written. [John 15:10, John 14:10, John 14:21, Lev. 2,3 & 4]

 

[th1b.taylor]

Why is that always the argument?

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Because it is the most vivid metaphor to illustrate the truth of this matter.

 

[Gary]

When a person is being attacked, or if a person's life is in danger - it IS about emotion, it's also about a physiological change in our bodies, which maybe is sort of survival mode. It is easy for a person to say they won't defend themselves or another person, but when they are faced with an attack, it probably is going to be different. People don't want to die.

Yes, the actual event is very emotional, but that emotion shouldn't become a part of the argument. As I said, no one's going to walk away from a child being raped, but that admission isn't proof that the bible condones violence.

Stick with the facts. How does the Word of God actually address this issue?

Do you believe that Jesus is God? God commanded Israel to wipe out nations, including women and children.

That is not what I meant when I said show me. Show me something that states it's ok for Christians to use violence.

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[Gary]

Gary,
The New Testament is not the Bible, it is the commentary on Life application of the Bible.

Okay.

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[Gary]

Because it is the most vivid metaphor to illustrate the truth of this matter.

It's actually a ploy to get people to consider the human side of reasoning.

Not good.

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[LovethroughDove]

Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Acts 7:59-60 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he said this, he fell asleep.

key words are highlighted. you cannot act like Stephen if you have not been given the Spirit.

 

[Jesse]

Stick with the facts. How does the Word of God actually address this issue?

I think the way it addresses this issue is we are called to be prepared and we are called to protect that which is ours, be it property, people or children.
Luke 11:21
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Luke 11:21
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;

The Bible also allows for police officers and the military by this verse, some people do not even believe we should have police or military.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God,an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

There is also the issue of people who refuse to listen to God when He has plainly told us to protect that which is ours, which IS right in God's eyes, called righteousness. Not doing what God has called righteous - is self-righteous, people who justify themselves by doing nothing and then using God as their excuse.

Romans 10:3
For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Acts 7:59-60 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he said this, he fell asleep.

key words are highlighted. you cannot act like Stephen if you have not been given the Spirit.

To Everyone.......and Brother Bill please forgive me if I am out of line. We are talking about the written word of God and not simply words we can pick and choose to deploy for our defence..
again I am sorry for this post,,
Every single Born again believer is BORN of the Spirit....You can not change this !!
Hey ya know here is a concept for you, Stephen walked in LOVE and IN FORGIVNESS just as every single one of us IS CALLED TO DO !!

However can we please get back to the op or at least if Brother Bill will allow, can we for once and all, settle this and remember the Integrity of the Written Word please. We are all throwing scriptures around like they are fortune cookies claiming my thinking is better then yours. (( Forgive me Bill))

May I also ask of every one to at least spend some time reading the word and if you are going to post a scripture, please remember to bring along with it ther rest of the scriptures thast go hand in hand with it. Please.

COME ON People.......all the bickering and arguing over what this means or that means and this means this because I say so and all that. I mean THINK before you post.....we got one person saying I will renounce christ if it can be proven true and she claims she only said it because she knows it can not.... That is treading on foolish ground.
How can I with the Love of God in me share truth with you on this with your words laying there in this thread?
Or perhaps you dont truly understand the Written Word Of God as well as you think, AND have NO understanding of the power of words.....Before you say anything about the power of words, Study the written word.....The biggest problems Christians have these days come from thier own mouth.....

If you want to learn about this truth then we can start a new thread. I am NOT attacking a single person.
Please forgive me Brother Bill
Jim

 

[th1b.taylor]

It's actually a ploy to get people to consider the human side of reasoning.

Not good.

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I fail to see it as a ploy.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Acts 7:59-60 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he said this, he fell asleep.

key words are highlighted. you cannot act like Stephen if you have not been given the Spirit.

So you have judged Jason, I and others on this forum to be without the Holy Spirit in our lives?

 

[Jesse]

So you have judged Jason, I and others on this forum to be without the Holy Spirit in our lives?

That is the ploy of that poster every time this is discussed.