Bible Study ARE we still sinners?

[Natha]

once we are sinners
we are forgiven by the sacrifice of Christ
.....................................................................
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
so our conscience is purged by the blood of christ to leave the dead works..
We are still in sinful body
this is why are baptising in to Christ and buried our body unto the death of Christ. we left our old life .. we are started new life and we got new spirit..
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we BE dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
.......................................................................
even we are in sinful body...
even we are with tempting in body
SIN CAN NOT GOVERN ON US

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
JESUS SENT ME FREE
NOT 10% NOT 30% NOT 80% BUT 100%

SIN CAN NOT GOVERN ON US, IT CAN TEMPT. BUT CAN NOT GOVERN US.. THANK YOU JESUS.. PRAISES TO YOU HEAVENLY FATHER.

 

[Jim Parker]

ARE we still sinners?

How about we do some defining of terms?

The terms; "sin" and "sinner" are Biblical terms.
A "sinner" is someone who chooses to do his own will without regard to any Biblical, ethical/moral doctrines.
A "sinner" rejects any constraints on his/her behavior based on Biblical teaching.
A "sinner" feels no remorse for his sins.

A "sin" is a violation of Biblical ethical/moral law or doctrine.

A "believer" is someone who accepts the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible based on his/her belief in Jesus.
A "Believer" strives to uphold the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible.
A "believer" cannot perfectly adhere to all those teachings at all times and violates them from time to time.
A "believer" is grieved by his/her failure; repents; confesses; and continues to strive for perfection.

So, no, a believer, even though he/she sins from time to time, is not a "sinner."

or so it seems to me

iakov the fool

 

[WIP]

How about we do some defining of terms?

The terms; "sin" and "sinner" are Biblical terms.
A "sinner" is someone who chooses to do his own will without regard to any Biblical, ethical/moral doctrines.
A "sinner" rejects any constraints on his/her behavior based on Biblical teaching.
A "sinner" feels no remorse for his sins.

A "sin" is a violation of Biblical ethical/moral law or doctrine.

A "believer" is someone who accepts the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible based on his/her belief in Jesus.
A "Believer" strives to uphold the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible.
A "believer" cannot perfectly adhere to all those teachings at all times and violates them from time to time.
A "believer" is grieved by his/her failure; repents; confesses; and continues to strive for perfection.

So, no, a believer, even though he/she sins from time to time, is not a "sinner."

or so it seems to me

iakov the fool

I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding one who sins. Is this person a sinner or something else?

 

[Natha]

I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding one who sins. Is this person a sinner or something else?

Thank you for asking..
i am already expressed my salvation experience
No comment please... no more discuss from my side.. i am believing what i need..

 

[Natha]

How about we do some defining of terms?

The terms; "sin" and "sinner" are Biblical terms.
A "sinner" is someone who chooses to do his own will without regard to any Biblical, ethical/moral doctrines.
A "sinner" rejects any constraints on his/her behavior based on Biblical teaching.
A "sinner" feels no remorse for his sins.

A "sin" is a violation of Biblical ethical/moral law or doctrine.

A "believer" is someone who accepts the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible based on his/her belief in Jesus.
A "Believer" strives to uphold the moral and ethical teaching of the Bible.
A "believer" cannot perfectly adhere to all those teachings at all times and violates them from time to time.
A "believer" is grieved by his/her failure; repents; confesses; and continues to strive for perfection.

So, no, a believer, even though he/she sins from time to time, is not a "sinner."

or so it seems to me

iakov the fool

PLease apply Hebrew
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[Jim Parker]

I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding one who sins. Is this person a sinner or something else?

OK...I tried to address that question in my post #2 above.
1st: Define sin. It is a violation of God's will.
Next: define "sinner."
I understand that as someone who sins and doesn't care and isn't interested in repentance and doesen't care about God's will or God's righteousness or anything having to do with God. He's his own god and does whatever he feels like.
Then: define "saint."
That is someone who has believed in Jesus Christ; has repented of his sins; and is doing his best to do only that which is pleasing to God.

Every now and then, the saint fails to do God's will (he sins). That is followed by repentance and confession.

The lifestyle of a sinner is defined by the pursuit of the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes and the pride of life.

The lifestyle of a saint is defined by the pursuit of holiness.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

PLease apply Hebrew
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Those who are being saved have left off the pursuit of the pleasures of this life and have taken up their cross to follow Jesus and to do the will of the Father rather than their own will.

 

[WIP]

OK...I tried to address that question in my post #2 above.
1st: Define sin. It is a violation of God's will.
Next: define "sinner."
I understand that as someone who sins and doesn't care and isn't interested in repentance and doesen't care about God's will or God's righteousness or anything having to do with God. He's his own god and does whatever he feels like.
Then: define "saint."
That is someone who has believed in Jesus Christ; has repented of his sins; and is doing his best to do only that which is pleasing to God.

Every now and then, the saint fails to do God's will (he sins). That is followed by repentance and confession.

The lifestyle of a sinner is defined by the pursuit of the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes and the pride of life.

The lifestyle of a saint is defined by the pursuit of holiness.

iakov the fool

What I'm understanding from this is that you might be defining the difference between willful or habitual sinner vs a saved sinner.

If I am running I am a runner. If I am sinning I am a sinner. I'm just trying to understand the difference because you seem to be redefining how suffixes work in the English language and if someone was to present this question to me, I am not sure I can answer them right now.

 

[ezra]

1 John 5:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1 John 3:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

here is some scriptures that can create confusion any one care to explain a sin not unto death ?
this should be interesting might i say i agree with wip on still being s WIP .i am still on the potters wheel

 

[Jim Parker]

What I'm understanding from this is that you might be defining the difference between willful or habitual sinner vs a saved sinner.

That may be correct depending on how you define the word "sinner."
It would not be correct following the definition I used. (Posted above)

I'm just trying to understand the difference because you seem to be redefining how suffixes work in the English language and if someone was to present this question to me, I am not sure I can answer them right now.

From my post #6
..."sinner."
I understand that as someone who sins and doesn't care and isn't interested in repentance and doesen't care about God's will or God's righteousness or anything having to do with God. He's his own god and does whatever he feels like.
... "saint."
That is someone who has believed in Jesus Christ; has repented of his sins; and is doing his best to do only that which is pleasing to God.

 

[Natha]

What is the action of the blood of Christ?
how much power is there in the blood of Christ?
what is the meaning of burial with Jesus Christ?
how much we benefited? still we are depending on our works? means to stay strong with fighting in the flesh
How did God call us as saints? 25% saints? 50% saints? 100% saints
or only still doing sin and only depending on grace?
still sinning? still repenting? still depending?
what is the transformation in soul and body too?
I like to challenge all of you to think..on the fact how God has placed us..
as i am growing in holiness i have tasted different experience
My heart is willing to flee, willing to cry, willing to go and live in the desert.

Psa 55:6 And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
Psa 55:7 Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness.
Psa 55:8 I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.

 

[ezra]

we spend more time focusing on sin. instead of holiness

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Once a person has received salvation God sees them as saints, no longer as sinners. There is no scripture that states that a believer is a sinner, but you do find that they were once sinners(past tense) but are seen by God as if they had never sinned.

In the old testament a sacrifice of atonement was required once a year, every year, but now that Christ has been made sin for us and we have been made the righteousness of God in Christ, salvation is completed by faith in Christ's blood as our payment for our sin makes us in the eyes of God as if we had never sinned.

 

[Jim Parker]

There is no scripture that states that a believer is a sinner,

Nobody is saying that saints are still sinners.
But it is a fact that saints still sin from time to time, some more, some less.
We are in process. WHen we see Him face to face then we'll be like HIm and never sin again.

 

[Garion]

Why would the standard have changed?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Nobody is saying that saints are still sinners.
But it is a fact that saints still sin from time to time, some more, some less.
We are in process. WHen we see Him face to face then we'll be like HIm and never sin again.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

The process that "we are in" is sanctification, not justification. Sanctification is a continual process and we are called on to sanctify ourselves, but no where is scripture are we called on to "justify" ourselves, only God can do that. Justification is best explained as "Just as if I had never sinned".

 

[Jim Parker]

Justification is best explained as "Just as if I had never sinned".

The word from which we get "justification" is the Greek word "DIKAIOSUNE". It is the Greek rendering of the Hebraic word "TSADAKA" which refers to the power by which God saves. Unfortunately, the Greek word has a pagan juridical meaning which was carried over into western Christianity by Augustine and the Scholastics and then into Protestantism.

In any case, "Just as if I had never sinned" is cute but no where near the meaning of the scriptures.
It's just easy to remember and impresses the wuffos.

 

[WIP]

dirtfarmer here

Once a person has received salvation God sees them as saints, no longer as sinners. There is no scripture that states that a believer is a sinner, but you do find that they were once sinners(past tense) but are seen by God as if they had never sinned.

In the old testament a sacrifice of atonement was required once a year, every year, but now that Christ has been made sin for us and we have been made the righteousness of God in Christ, salvation is completed by faith in Christ's blood as our payment for our sin makes us in the eyes of God as if we had never sinned.

But does this mean that we are free to ignore our sins going forward? In other words, I was saved last week so today what I do or say or fail to do or say doesn't matter anymore?

 

[dirtfarmer]

But does this mean that we are free to ignore our sins going forward? In other words, I was saved last week so today what I do or say or fail to do or say doesn't matter anymore?

hello WIP, dirtfarmer here

When a person receives salvation there is a dying of the old and the creation of a new man created in Christ Jesus. That new man has a different heart than before; he is no longer an enemy of God, but a child of God. The old man was not eradicated, but is made powerless to rule. It is only when we allow the old man to pop his head up that we do things that are contrary to God's will. We don't ask God to forgive our sin after we are saved; all sin is under the blood and has been nailed to the cross. Christian confession of sin is to say the same as God says about sin. It is fellowship that is broken by sin of the believer, not relationship. A sinner doesn't have a relationship with God, so there is no fellowship with Him.

What you do after salvation or say will affect your conscience, but will not sever the relationship that was established by the blood payment of Christ. He, Christ, doesn't have to go to the cross again, ever. He is ever making intercession for us in the presence of the Father because "the accuser" is always trying to prove that we are still lost because we have sinned. Jesus, as our intercessor, reminds Satan that because he died eternally for us, we are not longer subject to die eternal death.

 

[that fizzy guy]

We are all sinners whether saved or not the only time we "don't sin at all" is when we do right for God/Jesus by way of the Holy spirit.
Now there are "difference" between a believer who has accepted Jesus Christ and his works and a non believer who is still lost/still a slave to sin...
A believer who has accepted Jesus and his works otherwise known as a "saved" individual is one who does not sin willfully "in good conscience" having "remorse" when and if they perceive they have sinned.
A non believer or otherwise known as lost or "unsaved" who has not accepted Jesus Christ and his works for whatever reason is one who can be known to willfully sin "without remorse" and "delight in sin" or basically their will is the "opposite" of God's", and aren't open to "change".
Both are classified as sinners,one being a sinner saved by grace, the other being a sinner who rejects Jesus or hasn't come to accept Jesus and his works.
The biggest difference between the two is perhaps in that a believer is more prone to serve God/Jesus, help others in need without thought of self gain and strive to not sin so abundantly,a non believer is more prone to do things for selfish reasons such as help others for self gain, promote one's self as some great thing, rely on one's own strength and knowledge and not be "trusting".