"At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women"

[handy]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

im neutral on tats. my issue with them is i feel its another christian compromise. ie ccm is such an example. we if we get christian music we can entertain ourselves but not have to worry about that bad stuff.most modern christian music is so fluffy and light.

I can see where one could look at faith based tattoos as a Christian compromise, like, as you say, contemporary Christian music... I sort of look at them that way myself.

However, since there really isn't anything inherently sinful about tattoos.. anymore than there is anything inherently sinful about a type of music...I don't have any problem with the supposed "compromise". As with you, I'm neutral on the subject.

I look at it more as a matter of Christian liberty... and am participating in this thread more because of how the discussion is really centered on how we handle the issue of Christian liberty more than anything else.

Believe it or not Christian liberty isn't to be denied the Church based solely upon how some people might be offended. As has been brought up a number of times now... not one of the Apostles told the gentiles that they were free to be circumcised or not be circumcised, but since it was such a divisive issue for the Jewish Christians, it would be best to be circumcised so that their freedom didn't cause an offense or be a stumbling block. (After all, what about a young Jewish Christian couple who decide not to circumcise their baby son because hey, all those Gentiles are running around without being circumcised... Why, all their elder family members would think they were infidels.)

 

[jasoncran]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

idk. i can be used either way. some christians use scriptures. others images. i dont judge either way but i know if i did tat up. no workee for my church we are old fashioned here. i just dont need to see the whole back thing of images. or front on men or legs.when is it enough?

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I can see where one could look at faith based tattoos as a Christian compromise, like, as you say, contemporary Christian music... I sort of look at them that way myself.

However, since there really isn't anything inherently sinful about tattoos.. anymore than there is anything inherently sinful about a type of music...I don't have any problem with the supposed "compromise". As with you, I'm neutral on the subject.

I look at it more as a matter of Christian liberty... and am participating in this thread more because of how the discussion is really centered on how we handle the issue of Christian liberty more than anything else.

Believe it or not Christian liberty isn't to be denied the Church based solely upon how some people might be offended. As has been brought up a number of times now... not one of the Apostles told the gentiles that they were free to be circumcised or not be circumcised, but since it was such a divisive issue for the Jewish Christians, it would be best to be circumcised so that their freedom didn't cause an offense or be a stumbling block. (After all, what about a young Jewish Christian couple who decide not to circumcise their baby son because hey, all those Gentiles are running around without being circumcised... Why, all their elder family members would think they were infidels.)

handy:

Yes, the background of issues of Christian liberty is important.

Paul circumcised Timothy in order to aid his witness among Jews. Timothy wasn't compelled; he received it willingly.

Paul also withstood Peter against the notion that circumcision was a compulsion.
Among Christians, circumcision was voluntary.

Yes, I think there IS an analogy with tattoos, also.

Faith related tattoo designs DO help people in their witness, very often.

No one should feel compelled to get a tattoo.

No one should feel compelled NOT to get a tattoo.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

so a tramp stamp for a christian is ok? instead of some heathen thing it now john 3:16?

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

so only the neck, forehead and arms and legs for girls?

jason:

Those placements would seem to be particularly suitable for them, yes (not sure about forehead, unless it's a typo; I've not seen many forehead tatts!)

I think it's not so much a case of looking at it legalistically but rather, instead, practically and sensibly.

(You mentioned some hidden areas in a previous post; maybe if you want to talk further about such areas it would be best done in the men's locker room.)

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Nina's car isn't ever parked outside of strip joints... it's parked outside the church where she works with the Sunday School kids, participates in the Bible studies and besides, she's been very happily married to her husband for over 20 years now... she's the antithesis of a "loose woman".

handy:

Going after the reputations of Godly women like in your description of Nina would be frankly ludicrous. Re. the design, it should be enough that she chose to do it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro,

The whole "car parked outside a strip joint" strikes me as silly.

Nina's car isn't ever parked outside of strip joints... it's parked outside the church where she works with the Sunday School kids, participates in the Bible studies and besides, she's been very happily married to her husband for over 20 years now... she's the antithesis of a "loose woman".

The thing about the Corinthians verse is that it says: "you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but IS sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler."

Not, "you must not associate with anyone whom you have decided, upon purely superficial reasons without at all knowing their heart, must somehow be sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler."

Big difference that....

Being discerning is exactly what is at issue here... Making judgements regarding people based solely upon one's own opinion as to what a tattoo represents (when the majority of people in our society doesn't look at them that way any longer) is hardly discerning.

I'm terribly disappointed with the spin you have put on what I wrote. I hope you just read it too fast. How did you miss what I said:

Jethro Bodine:
"Contrary to what you seem to be saying, the tattoo all by itself is not the basis for making this judgment."

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I'm terribly disappointed with the spin you have put on what I wrote. I hope you just read it too fast. How did you miss what I said:

Jethro Bodine:
"Contrary to what you seem to be saying, the tattoo all by itself is not the basis for making this judgment."

Jethro:

But you were the one, not handy, who talked about this Godly lady that she knows supposedly with her "car parked outside a strip joint", or something like that.

Handy's description of her friend seems rather different from the impression that you claim she gives. I don't think you have an objective basis for it.

Blessings.

 

[reba]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Hey guys lets step back think and then play nice.....reba

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Hey guys lets step back think and then play nice.....reba

reba:

Okay I stand reproved. I'll try to be courteous and nice.

Blessings.

 

[reba]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

YW

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Here are my thoughts concerning tattoos on women:

• How good a tattoo looks on a woman is directly proportional to it's size.
  
  
• Displaying your tattoo like a sailor returning from sea defeats any beauty you think you may have added to yourself by the placement of that tattoo.
  
  
• Any woman who gets a tattoo thinking most males don't think it suggests, even a little, something about how loose they are is kidding themselves.
  
  
• Small, innocent tattoos like "John 3:16" on the wrist are pretty safe, but they still have the potential to be a stumbling block to a woman just escaping a lifestyle of inappropriate tattooing and the lifestyle that generally goes with that in the world.
  
  
• The reason a person gets tattooed is what makes it right or wrong for them personally. How a tattoo affects others is what makes it right or wrong in an overall sense.
  
  
• A woman is entitled to have a hidden tattoo for the purpose of enhancing erotic arousal between her and her husband...as long as it doesn't violate their own conscience about arousing interest that way, and the tattoo in and of itself is not obscene or profane.
  
  
• Anyone who does not take into consideration what tattoos look like later in life has not adequately thought the decision through to get one or not.
  
  
• We should always give consideration to when a saved woman got her tattoo(s). Unlike love (worldly love, lol), tattoos are forever. They don't go away just because a woman got saved and repented from the lifestyle and attitudes and desires that caused her to get tattooed in the first place. A tattoo hardly means she has the same attitudes and desires now as a Christian that caused her to get it when she was in the world.
  
  
• And lastly (for now? Lol) this:
  
  
  12 ...each of us will give an account of himself to God.
  
  13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no (tattoo) is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards (tattoos) as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15 If your brother is distressed because of (the tattoo you got), you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your (tattooing) destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16 Do not allow what you consider good (getting tattooed) to be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of (external things), but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way (through the righteousness of a clean conscience, peace and joy) is pleasing to God and approved by men.
  
  19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of (tattoos). All (tattoos are) clean, but it is wrong for a man to (get a Tattoo) that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to (get a tattoo) or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
  
  22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he (gets a tattoo), because his (getting a tattoo) is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
  
  Romans 14:12-23 NIV1984
  
  
  As you can see, many of the questions about getting a tattoo, from the point of view of the one getting the tattoo and those of us who see them on other people, are addressed in this passage.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro:

But you were the one, not handy, who talked about this Godly lady that she knows supposedly with her "car parked outside a strip joint", or something like that.

Actually, I was referring to a man that does that. We certainly need to take a closer look at someone who does that and calls themselves a brother. So we also have to take a second look at the woman who calls herself a believer but comes back every Sunday newly tattooed in the pattern of how the world does that.

Handy's description of her friend seems rather different from the impression that you claim she gives. I don't think you have an objective basis for it.

Blessings.

Read my list. It should clear things up for you and others of what I think about clean, small, and well placed tattoos on women. There are a lot of different scenarios in this subject of tattooing. Any one argument may or may not apply to all circumstances and situations. But that is what seems to be happening in this thread.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Read my list. It should clear things up for you and others of what I think about clean, small, and well placed tattoos on women. There's a lot of different scenarios in this subject of tattooing. Any one argument may or may not apply to all circumstances and situations.

Jethro:

Well, you know, I find I am agreeing with you more than I thought I would.

I don't agree with all your statements in the list, though some parts have some merit, I think.

The James passage is indeed very relevant, as is the Romans 14 passage; I realize having said that, that some people reading those passages and others reading them, might come to slightly different conclusions, but at least we are reading from the same page, which is where believers should be .

I do think that "clean, small, and well placed tattoos on women", as you say, can be appropriate, and as a believer I can certainly respect how Godly women might be motivated that as well as a bracelet on their wrist, etc. a discreet Bible ref. should quietly point their friends and neighbors towards the Savior.

Regarding any hidden parts of the body, like I said earlier, maybe if this needs to be discussed it can be done in the locker room, not here.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro:

Well, you know, I find I am agreeing with you more than I thought I would.

I don't agree with all your statements in the list, though some parts have some merit, I think.

I thought maybe you would if I could just communicate my thoughts to you adequately and rescue them from the confusion caused by the complexity of the subject and the limitations of communicating through a written forum.

I do think that "clean, small, and well placed tattoos on women", as you say, can be appropriate, and as a believer I can certainly respect how Godly women might be motivated that as well as a bracelet on their wrist, etc. a discreet Bible ref. should quietly point their friends and neighbors towards the Savior.

But we can't forget the potential for stumbling that even that can have to a woman escaping the lifestyle of worldly tattooing.

Regarding any hidden parts of the body, like I said earlier, maybe if this needs to be discussed it can be done in the locker room, not here.

Personally for me, what I shared is safe and sufficient. If someone wanted to talk details I suppose it might be better in that thread.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I thought maybe you would if I could just communicate my thoughts to you adequately.

But we can't forget the potential for stumbling that even that can have to a woman escaping the lifestyle of worldly tattooing.


Personally for me, what I shared is safe and sufficient. If someone wanted to talk details I suppose it might be better in that thread.

Jethro:

Well thank-you for your efforts to communicate, and I'll keep trying too.

Re. something like a discreet Bible ref. on a wrist, we can't read anyone's mind, but with about 60% of parlor clients in North America being women and with women owning a majority of parlors in some localities, including a majority of these being Christian women that we were hearing about, above, I would personally reckon that the likelihood of a wholesome Bible ref. tatt. on a wrist damaging someone who has been into wholesale adulterous behavior, would be extremely remote; my frank two cents'.

It's okay what you said; I earlier deflected one or two similar comments from others to the locker thread.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

i dont need to start a new thread in the mens room on tats in near the private regions. but jethro has a point. farouk have you ever been to a tatoo parlor? i have been near one and well as a male with lust issues that is a no-no. now then should a christian be a tatoo artist? if so then he or she can only make money on clean tats and what off the afformiented body parts? is the temptation to see them a sin?

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

jason:

Yes, what you say about the tattoo artist profession is perfectly valid.

In fact, it's relevant to piercers as well as tattooists. As we know. (If I had not written the OP I might not even have taken it upon myself to mention the locker room.)

My suggestion for this thread would be, however, if we are going to end up naming hidden male or female body parts, and I don't deny that can be a valid discussion, that we do so in the locker room.

Christian parents of any of the teens who are looking forward, in the years ahead, to their rite of passage day at the parlor when 18 arrives (it's almost the first place they go when the big day arrives) need to have confidence that the sort of thing their teen might read on this thread reflects what they would reasonably expect about the usual, visible placements. Call me reactionary; prudish; whatever, then fine; I think mods would probably agree that if Christian parents want a discussion about named hidden body parts, then the parent of the teen can take him or her to the locker room together. For me I'll readily agree it's awkward but it's also sensible, I think.

You make some valid observations, though.

Blessings.

PS: You're also right about people wanting to pursue a career in tattoo parlors needing to be able to face certain situations professionally, if one has to be in close physical proximity with a client/patient; this also would apply more widely to the medical and nursing fields.

Blessing.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

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You might be interested in this quote from an article I read; I think you’ve mentioned the matter of older people in relation to the subject:

Article by Laura Stampler in the Huffington Post “Many Women Get Tattoos post-50 — and Don’t Regret It Later”
Gallo-Kohlas, (of Requiem Body Art in Spring Hill, Fla.) told The Huffington Post. ’ "We see a lot of women in their sixties and seventies getting their first tattoos." Gallo-Kohlas recalls a woman in her sixties who got a tattoo because everyone in the golf clique at her gated community had one. It seemed like the thing to do in order to fit in.’ (Emph. added)

Personally I don’t think people should feel under pressure to get a tattoo. Ever.

Time does march on, I guess. Someone who was 18 the year it was all over with the Beatles as a group, 1970, would be 60 now.

Blessings.