At what point are sins removed?

[Cnkw3]

Everyone talks about being “saved” but all that is, is the point at which a persons sins are removed. We are told this....
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
This means man needs these sins remitted or removed in order to be ”saved”. The Bible, under the new covenant, is very clear through numerous passages at exactly what point in time a person has their sins removed and cleansed.
I am just curious at how many on here are willing to give me book, chapter,and verse that tells us EXACTLY at what point in time a person has their sins….remitted, washed away, freed from.
The Bible is very clear on this subject. It takes no higher learning or interpretation in order to come to the truth on this subject.

 

[Cnkw3]

So far there is nobody that wants to give me a Bible answer to this question? This is foundational to everyones salvation. A person is not saved until there sins are removed. So, at what point in time does the Bible say that our sins are removed? (which is salvation)
It is my belief, through experience, that many people like the idea of Jesus and salvation they just dont like the doctrine that Jesus teaches on this subject. They are more comfortable believing in what man has made up.
The Bible tells us this though….
2 Jn 9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Whoever doesn’t abide in the doctrine of Christ is wasting their time. Its not about just “believing”. One must abide to be accepted. Acts 10:35

 

[for_his_glory]

Our sins are immediatly forgiven when we first turn to the Lord and repent after we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Walpole]

Our sins are immediatly forgiven when we first turn to the Lord and repent after we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteous.

So based on these verses, our sins are forgiven:

1. At baptism

2. And upon a confession


Yes?

 

[for_his_glory]

So based on these verses, our sins are forgiven:

1. At baptism

2. And upon a confession


Yes?

Yes.

How can our sins be forgiven if we do not come to the Lord with a heart of repentance an ask for forgiveness as He is the only one who can forgive our sins. I'm not talking about baptism in water, but the baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit that creates in us newness of life within us as we are cleansed by the blood of Christ who shed His blood for whosoever will believe in Him. One first hears the preaching of the word and those who hearts are convicted by their sin repent as they confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 2:37-38.

 

[Walpole]

Yes.

How can our sins be forgiven if we do not come to the Lord with a heart of repentance an ask for forgiveness as He is the only one who can forgive our sins. I'm not talking about baptism in water, but the baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit that creates in us newness of life within us as we are cleansed by the blood of Christ who shed His blood for whosoever will believe in Him. One first hears the preaching of the word and those who hearts are convicted by their sin repent as they confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 2:37-38.

Baptism without water? What does that look like and how is it administered?

At the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, our Blessed Lord instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19)

I've asked this now multiple times and not one person has answered...

---> Do you know of anyone using this form for a baptism apart from the use of water? In other words, are "dry baptisms" (i.e. those without water) administered by simply saying over someone, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" sans water?

 

[Cnkw3]

Our sins are immediatly forgiven when we first turn to the Lord and repent after we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior

There is no scripture with this one so I have to conclude that you heard this somewhere, thought it seemed reasonable, so you believe it. Let’s see if the Bible ever really says this?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. It does say that water is involved before a person can enter into the kingdom. This harmonizes with everything else the NT has to say about salvation.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. This passage does say exactly at what point in time our sins are removed. Through baptism in water “for the remission of sins”. (we know it’s water through acts 10) This completely harmonizes with your Jn 3 passage. Water is involved in a mans salvation. If you don’t think it’s water then prove it. The same man Peter commanded water baptism in the name of the Lord in acts 10 so there is no way this man contradicted himself here in acts 2. I would hate to think that’s the message I was basing my salvation on. (Some message like....Peter preached spirit baptism in acts 2 then water in acts 10). That would be nonsense.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

This passage is just like Jn 3:16. If we believe, we will have eternal life. But this passage doesn’t say anything about “ believe only” and your sins are then removed. Again, Peter commands these people to be baptized in water. Why? Because it was Peter that told us that water baptism is the point at which sins are removed.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. It doesn’t even say anything about repenting. It does mention a “washing of regeneration”. Hmmm? What do you think that could be referring to? If remission of sins happens at the point of water baptism then why would that NOT be the “washing of regeneration” since regeneration is just another way of saying......you have a new life. You are born again and we know that process involves water. See how all of these passages harmonize when you allow the truth to speak and don’t spin it the way you want it.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This was written to Christians like all the other epistles. If a Christian, and he uses the word “we” to include himself, sins then they are to repent, confess and pray. This is not the pattern for someone to become a Christian, to obey the gospel and become a child of God. If it was Peter would have told his audience in acts 2 this very thing. But he didn’t. Paul explains to Christians in Galatians just how they became a child of God.
Gal 3:26-29. And it includes baptism in water. Don’t you love how all of these passages harmonize when you let the truth speak.

 

[Cnkw3]

Yes.

How can our sins be forgiven if we do not come to the Lord with a heart of repentance an ask for forgiveness as He is the only one who can forgive our sins. I'm not talking about baptism in water, but the baptism of Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit that creates in us newness of life within us as we are cleansed by the blood of Christ who shed His blood for whosoever will believe in Him. One first hears the preaching of the word and those who hearts are convicted by their sin repent as they confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 2:37-38.

Who did Jesus shed his blood for? It’s not “whoever believes only”. The Bible is very specific about WHO Jesus shed his blood for. I’ll give you time to give me the passage that specifically states who it is.
The passages you site say say NOTHING of what your post says.
Jn 3. Water
Acts 2 water.
Rom 10 says. Whosoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved. The Bible specifically connects this act of calling with water in acts 22. The New Testament NEVER connects calling with saying some prayer. If so...show me the verse.

 

[for_his_glory]

There is no scripture with this one so I have to conclude that you heard this somewhere, thought it seemed reasonable, so you believe it. Let’s see if the Bible ever really says this?

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. It does say that water is involved before a person can enter into the kingdom. This harmonizes with everything else the NT has to say about salvation.

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. This passage does say exactly at what point in time our sins are removed. Through baptism in water “for the remission of sins”. (we know it’s water through acts 10) This completely harmonizes with your Jn 3 passage. Water is involved in a mans salvation. If you don’t think it’s water then prove it. The same man Peter commanded water baptism in the name of the Lord in acts 10 so there is no way this man contradicted himself here in acts 2. I would hate to think that’s the message I was basing my salvation on. (Some message like....Peter preached spirit baptism in acts 2 then water in acts 10). That would be nonsense.

This passage is just like Jn 3:16. If we believe, we will have eternal life. But this passage doesn’t say anything about “ believe only” and your sins are then removed. Again, Peter commands these people to be baptized in water. Why? Because it was Peter that told us that water baptism is the point at which sins are removed.

This does not say our sins are removed “immediately” when we accept Jesus as Lord, turn and repent. It doesn’t even say anything about repenting. It does mention a “washing of regeneration”. Hmmm? What do you think that could be referring to? If remission of sins happens at the point of water baptism then why would that NOT be the “washing of regeneration” since regeneration is just another way of saying......you have a new life. You are born again and we know that process involves water. See how all of these passages harmonize when you allow the truth to speak and don’t spin it the way you want it.

This was written to Christians like all the other epistles. If a Christian, and he uses the word “we” to include himself, sins then they are to repent, confess and pray. This is not the pattern for someone to become a Christian, to obey the gospel and become a child of God. If it was Peter would have told his audience in acts 2 this very thing. But he didn’t. Paul explains to Christians in Galatians just how they became a child of God.
Gal 3:26-29. And it includes baptism in water. Don’t you love how all of these passages harmonize when you let the truth speak.

Please give me the scriptures that say we have to be immersed in river water in order to have our sins forgiven.

 

[for_his_glory]

Who did Jesus shed his blood for? It’s not “whoever believes only”. The Bible is very specific about WHO Jesus shed his blood for. I’ll give you time to give me the passage that specifically states who it is.
The passages you site say say NOTHING of what your post says.
Jn 3. Water
Acts 2 water.
Rom 10 says. Whosoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved. The Bible specifically connects this act of calling with water in acts 22. The New Testament NEVER connects calling with saying some prayer. If so...show me the verse.

Nowhere in those verses does it say anything about water as it is speaking about the Baptism of Christ. Only the blood of Jesus can make us clean again.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.

The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[for_his_glory]

Who did Jesus shed his blood for? It’s not “whoever believes only”.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[for_his_glory]

Baptism without water? What does that look like and how is it administered?

At the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, our Blessed Lord instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19)

I've asked this now multiple times and not one person has answered...

---> Do you know of anyone using this form for a baptism apart from the use of water? In other words, are "dry baptisms" (i.e. those without water) administered by simply saying over someone, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" sans water?

"That so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Paul wants to show how a Christian has actually died to sin — to show that a Christian has been baptized into Christ's death, that he is a sharer of that death to sin. This baptism has nothing to do with water, but is a spiritual baptism, an actual act that places a person into Christ. Water baptism is a physical act that cannot mechanistically put a person into Christ, although some people believe that it does. Others agree that baptism here refers to Spirit baptism, while seeing water baptism as the outward sign of Spirit baptism.

The Meaning of Baptism : Most commentators agree that the meaning of the word "baptize" frequently means "dip." While this may be a primary meaning of "baptize," the word also has other meanings, one being "identify." There are many places in the New Testament where "baptize" cannot mean "dip." Some of them are:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire" (Matt 3:11).

"But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and now am I straitened till it be accomplished" (Luke 12:50).

"One, Lord, one faith, one baptism " (Eph 4:5).

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (1 Cor 10:2).

In Romans 6 baptism refers to Spirit baptism when a person is identified with Christ or put into union with him, sharing in his death. This link will explain this is in full as it is a different baptism from that of John's water baptism that was only an outward appearance to others

Baptism into Christ (HTML)

Article by Dr. Jack Arnold from Biblical Perspectives Volume 1, Number 31

thirdmill.org

 

[Walpole]

"That so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Paul wants to show how a Christian has actually died to sin — to show that a Christian has been baptized into Christ's death, that he is a sharer of that death to sin. This baptism has nothing to do with water, but is a spiritual baptism, an actual act that places a person into Christ. Water baptism is a physical act that cannot mechanistically put a person into Christ, although some people believe that it does. Others agree that baptism here refers to Spirit baptism, while seeing water baptism as the outward sign of Spirit baptism.

The Meaning of Baptism : Most commentators agree that the meaning of the word "baptize" frequently means "dip." While this may be a primary meaning of "baptize," the word also has other meanings, one being "identify." There are many places in the New Testament where "baptize" cannot mean "dip." Some of them are:


In Romans 6 baptism refers to Spirit baptism when a person is identified with Christ or put into union with him, sharing in his death. This link will explain this is in full as it is a different baptism from that of John's water baptism that was only an outward appearance to others

Baptism into Christ (HTML)

Article by Dr. Jack Arnold from Biblical Perspectives Volume 1, Number 31

thirdmill.org

You haven't answered the question. Our blessed Lord's final instruction at the end of St. Matthew's gospel is for His followers to teach and baptize and He gives them the form for administering baptism...

"...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19)

Question you ignored ---> Do you know of anyone using this form for a baptism apart from the use of water? In other words, are "dry baptisms" administered by simply saying over someone, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" sans water?


If this is the case in your particular sect and you do not in fact use water to baptize people, how exactly does anyone know with certainty whether they were baptized or not?

 

[for_his_glory]

You haven't answered the question. Our blessed Lord's final instruction at the end of St. Matthew's gospel is for His followers to teach and baptize and He gives them the form for administering baptism...

"...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19)

Question you ignored ---> Do you know of anyone using this form for a baptism apart from the use of water? In other words, are "dry baptisms" administered by simply saying over someone, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" sans water?


If this is the case in your particular sect and you do not in fact use water to baptize people, how exactly does anyone know with certainty whether they were baptized or not?

I am trying to show you the baptism of John is different than the baptism into Christ. Not to many people know this as many think both are the same done in water. If you read that article it explains it better than I can.

There is nothing wrong with full immersion in water, but to know it is not the water that washes our sins away, but only an outward appearance to others that you have repented of your sins and made clean by the blood of Christ. John's was for the remission of sin while Christ is for the receiving of the Holy Spirit and fire (empowerment).

 

[for_his_glory]

If this is the case in your particular sect and you do not in fact use water to baptize people, how exactly does anyone know with certainty whether they were baptized or not?

It has nothing to do with Catholic or Protestant, or any other religion, but that of the word of God so please do not make this about Catholics or Protestants. Read the article if you truly want to learn.

 

[Walpole]

I am trying to show you the baptism of John is different than the baptism into Christ. Not to many people know this as many think both are the same done in water. If you read that article it explains it better than I can.

I'm not arguing John's baptism is the same as Christ's baptism. Scripture is quite clear that John's baptism was preparatory, meant to bring people to repentance and to prepare them for Christ and His baptism. John's baptism is NOT equal to a Christian baptism. We know this from St. Paul's explicit example in the Scriptures. Recall while in Ephesus, he encounters men who had received John’s baptism. St. Paul insists they still had to receive Christian baptism...

Acts 19:1-5 ---> And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

There is nothing wrong with full immersion in water, but to know it is not the water that washes our sins away, but only an outward appearance to others that you have repented of your sins and made clean by the blood of Christ. John's was for the remission of sin while Christ is for the receiving of the Holy Spirit and fire (empowerment).

Again, you are not answering my question and dodging. You have argued baptism can happen without water. If indeed this is true, can you give me an example where this form as instructed by Jesus...

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

...is ever done on someone without water?


If this is the case in your particular sect and you do not in fact use water to baptize people, how exactly does anyone know with certainty whether they were baptized or not?

 

[Walpole]

It has nothing to do with Catholic or Protestant, or any other religion, but that of the word of God so please do not make this about Catholics or Protestants. Read the article if you truly want to learn.

I am not discussing Catholic or Protestant. I am simply asking if you can demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, if the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without water?

It's a simple question.

If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water, would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and I would therefore be considered baptized?

 

[gordon777]

Sins are not removed, by any outward appearance of someone showing lack of belief in the rising of Jesus Christ( sinning yet again, because sin is unbelief)

Baptism can only be done if one believes in all of their heart, or they will sin and do evil now in the name of Jesus Christ.

If anyone does truly believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and was risen again for our righteousness, they live with Him in their heart in righteousness, and th outward appearance to others is in righteous words and in righteous deed, to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father through Him and blasphemy is when we sin in His name and say also that we cant help ourselves, and this is how God has us to be with Him.


As for if a church will baptize with a dry baptism, the better answer is to go to where the waters are, Jesus paid the price for us with His blood and with His water. ( out of His belly) and He is that tree of life, notice that tree is in the middle of the street and on either side of the river of the fountain out of the thine of God and of the Lamb, as the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are one and that one is the tree of life in the middle and on either side of the street of it.





Isaiah 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.



Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


Revelation 22: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[Walpole]

Sins are not removed, by any outward appearance of someone showing lack of belief in the rising of Jesus Christ( sinning yet again, because sin is unbelief)

Baptism can only be done if one believes in all of their heart, or they will sin and do evil now in the name of Jesus Christ.

If anyone does truly believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and was risen again for our righteousness, they live with Him in their heart in righteousness, and th outward appearance to others is in righteous words and in righteous deed, to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father through Him and blasphemy is when we sin in His name and say also that we cant help ourselves, and this is how God has us to be with Him.


As for if a church will baptize with a dry baptism, the better answer is to go to where the waters are, Jesus paid the price for us with His blood and with His water. ( out of His belly) and He is that tree of life, notice that tree is in the middle of the street and on either side of the river of the fountain out of the thine of God and of the Lamb, as the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost are one and that one is the tree of life in the middle and on either side of the street of it.





Isaiah 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.



Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


Revelation 22: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Another dodge.

This isn't rocket surgery. If you are going to claim you must be baptized sans water, then why can't you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water? It's a simple question.

Again, if I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and I would therefore be considered baptized?

 

[Cnkw3]

Please give me the scriptures that say we have to be immersed in river water in order to have our sins forgiven.

Who said anything about river water?

Maybe you can help me. I keep having these people like you tell me that “baptism” is not in water.
So help me out so I can get it straight....

Mk 16:16. Is this water?
Matt 28: 19. Water?
Acts 2:38. Water?
Acts 8: 12,13. Water?
Acts 8:38,39. Water?
Acts 10: 48 Water? Yes no? If yes then why here and not others
Acts 16:15. Water?
Acts 16:33. Water? Is this is water? If so, why here and not others?
Acts 18:8. Water? Yes? No?
Acts 19:5. Water?
Acts 22:16. Water?
If any of these are water then please tell me why they are water and why the others are not water? We really need some clarification on this because IF people were immersed in water then we need to know why. And IF none of these people were immersed in water then we need to know WHY so many people still do it since it would be contrary to the doctrine of Christ?
Please, please shed some light on this.